Graham Percival writes:
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 04:25:40PM +0100, Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) wrote:
>>Good visual debugger for both scheme and C++, running well on Windows and
>>Linux.
>
> That'll take... oh, 200 hours? Sorry, but that would probably
> take all the lilypond programm
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 04:25:40PM +0100, Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) wrote:
>Good visual debugger for both scheme and C++, running well on Windows and
>Linux.
That'll take... oh, 200 hours? Sorry, but that would probably
take all the lilypond programmers over a year to write. I don't
> Yes, that suffice if you are looking for text.
> But if you are looking for function and class definition, reference,
> exception throwing places, macro expansion as tooltip etc. There are a
> lot of things a good development environment must do for effective work.
XCode does a good job for me
> As does M-x grep RET in Emacs. And it's variants like M-x grep-find RET
> and similar. But Emacs can also navigate using tags tables, which is
> more direct and makes it easier to find definitions.
XCode keeps a table of symbols for all compiled files in the project,
users can select the test
Hi,
On Thu, 12 Nov 2009, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> >>> I'm talking about developer tools. For example, some months ago I
> >>> got the advice to use "grep" to browse LilyPond source code.
> >>
> >> BTW, have you found something better?
> >>
> > Eclipse is quite good at finding macro definitions etc
Yes, that suffice if you are looking for text.
But if you are looking for function and class definition, reference,
exception throwing places, macro expansion as tooltip etc. There are a
lot of things a good development environment must do for effective work.
dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote:
I
Werner LEMBERG wrote:
I'm talking about developer tools. For example, some months ago I
got the advice to use "grep" to browse LilyPond source code.
BTW, have you found something better?
Eclipse is quite good at finding macro definitions etc., but it
relies on some special buil
Kieren MacMillan writes:
>> for those working on a mac, XCode and BBEdit have grep-like
>> facilities as
>> well as project-wide search capabilities that report results in a list
>> that is itself a navigation tool for the hits.
>
> +1
> TextWrangler ("BBEdit Jr.", freeware) also has this wonderf
>>> I'm talking about developer tools. For example, some months ago I
>>> got the advice to use "grep" to browse LilyPond source code.
>>
>> BTW, have you found something better?
>>
> Eclipse is quite good at finding macro definitions etc., but it
> relies on some special build configuration, i mus
> Why do you think 99% of MS Word users are aware of only 1% of its
> features?
Autocad might be a better point of comparison.
As to Word, I have been responsible for informal teaching of its use in
computer labs, with clients that were on deadlines, many of whom had no
patience to learn things
for those working on a mac, XCode and BBEdit have grep-like
facilities as
well as project-wide search capabilities that report results in a list
that is itself a navigation tool for the hits.
+1
TextWrangler ("BBEdit Jr.", freeware) also has this wonderful feature.
Cheers,
Kieren.
_
>
>> I'm talking about developer tools. For example, some months ago I
>> got the advice to use "grep" to browse LilyPond source code.
>
> BTW, have you found something better?
for those working on a mac, XCode and BBEdit have grep-like facilities as
well as project-wide search capabilities that
Graham Percival wrote:
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 01:40:37PM +0100, Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) wrote:
I feel a very big obstacle for fixing bugs: the lack of modern tools for
developing LilyPond.
What, precisely do you mean by this?
- C++ and scheme sucks? I doubt this will change.
-
Werner LEMBERG wrote:
I'm talking about developer tools. For example, some months ago I
got the advice to use "grep" to browse LilyPond source code.
BTW, have you found something better?
Werner
Eclipse is quite good at finding macro definitions etc., but it relies
on some specia
> I'm talking about developer tools. For example, some months ago I
> got the advice to use "grep" to browse LilyPond source code.
BTW, have you found something better?
Werner
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2009/11/12 Kieren MacMillan :
> IM(NS)HO, the *only* reason to enthusiastically recommend
> Lilypond is its output: for 95+% of the population, it's an inferior
> engraving experience (i.e., high learning curve and no GUI), but the
> difference in output quality is so great that it justifies my fev
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 01:40:37PM +0100, Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool) wrote:
> I feel a very big obstacle for fixing bugs: the lack of modern tools for
> developing LilyPond.
What, precisely do you mean by this?
- C++ and scheme sucks? I doubt this will change.
- the build system sucks? we'r
"Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool)" writes:
> Sure, though I'm afraid they are mostly Java programmers.
Ah, you used "expert" in the negative sense. Someone who is only
familiar with one thing at all rather than _particularly_ good at one
thing.
> One of them declined to participate even in LilyPo
Op donderdag 12-11-2009 om 08:27 uur [tijdzone -0500], schreef Kieren
MacMillan:
> > - approximately 300 *known* bugs that produce garbage output that
> > nobody's working on. (there's about 10-15 bugs that people are
> > working on)
>
> I'd love to see CodaMusic's bug list. ;)
You could l
"Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool)" writes:
> Perhaps even the development platform should be changed here
> and there to make sure there are good tools to use.
>
>
> One thing I have learnt in the past: it is mostly pointless to try
> supporting a platform that is not your ow
Hi Graham (et al),
For the record, **I have never recommended that somebody use
lilypond**. When meeting a technically-oriented composer
Ah! That's your problem right there... I recommend Lilypond all the
time, but primarily to AESTHETICALLY-oriented composers.
In my experience, most comp
Perhaps even the development platform should be changed here and there
to make sure there are good tools to use.
One thing I have learnt in the past: it is mostly pointless to try
supporting a platform that is not your own choice. If others are
passionate enough about it, they will do a
Francisco Vila wrote:
2009/11/12 Graham Percival :
That's why I cringe a bit whenever I hear people proudly
announcing that they advertized lilypond to meeting X or
conference Y.
Do not cringe. Some people live passionately dealing with music,
education, computing and software freed
"Bertalan Fodor (LilyPondTool)" writes:
> I feel a very big obstacle for fixing bugs: the lack of modern tools
> for developing LilyPond.
>
> For example in the CG there are many advices about Emacs, which
> according to the opinion of the 94% of the expert (really expert!)
> software developers
Sure, though I'm afraid they are mostly Java programmers.
One of them declined to participate even in LilyPondTool.
Bert
Would you please invite a couple of dozen of them to help with lilypond
development?
I only know about 3 really expert! programmers, possibly 6 plain
expert programmers in
Op donderdag 12-11-2009 om 13:40 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Bertalan
Fodor (LilyPondTool):
Hi Bertalan,
> For example in the CG there are many advices about Emacs, which
> according to the opinion of the 94% of the expert (really expert!)
> software developers I know
Would you please invit
I feel a very big obstacle for fixing bugs: the lack of modern tools for
developing LilyPond.
For example in the CG there are many advices about Emacs, which
according to the opinion of the 94% of the expert (really expert!)
software developers I know (there are quite many of them) has been a
2009/11/12 Graham Percival :
> That's why I cringe a bit whenever I hear people proudly
> announcing that they advertized lilypond to meeting X or
> conference Y.
Do not cringe. Some people live passionately dealing with music,
education, computing and software freedom. Shake this and you'll have
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 09:11:40AM +0100, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
> So what are the actual problems? Is LilyPond really too difficult?
> Do we rely too much on crufty input-language solutions? How many
> ritardando-like hacks do we have for common problems? Are they
> listed/categorised somewhe
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