Joe Neeman wrote:
Hmm, doesn't that introduce scaling/dimension problems?
In what sense? Not within the constrained-breaker -- the demerits calculation
is purely internal so the only possibility of a scaling problem is with
externally introduced penalties.
No, but all components of the penalt
On 4/7/06, Joe Neeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't think TeX has to deal with this problem because each paragraph is
> self-contained. In LilyPond, every line affects every other line. (This is
> just an initial reaction. It might change after I read the TeXbook.)
> Therefore penalties in
On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 20:00, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> Joe Neeman wrote:
> > On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 16:31, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> >> TeX has exactly the same problem.
> >
> > Does TeX allow the user to arbitrarily assign penalties for inserting a
> > line break at the end of any word?
>
> Yes, I'm certai
On Sat, 8 Apr 2006 00:52, David Feuer wrote:
> On 4/7/06, Joe Neeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In constrained-breaking, I use the square of the force rather than its
> > absolute value -- I made the change for precisely this reason.
>
> The sum of absolute values will generally be more stable
Here are three references regarding global page breaking. Maybe you
can dig out those books and articles in your library -- unfortuately,
only the first one is available in the internet. Most of them handle
a slightly different topic, namely how to place floats.
Werner
==
On 4/7/06, Joe Neeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think they have to be. In the page-turning case, if G is much smaller than
> F, the penalties for a bad turn get ignored. Conversely, if G is too big, we
> sacrifice nice spacing. I hadn't actually thought of this before, but it
> looks like thi
On 4/7/06, Joe Neeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In constrained-breaking, I use the square of the force rather than its
> absolute value -- I made the change for precisely this reason.
The sum of absolute values will generally be more stable than the sum
of squares, or so the stat books say.
D
On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 22:59, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> Joe Neeman wrote:
> > On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 20:02, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> >> ...we should rather
> >> introduce some convexity in the penalties, so one perfect plus two
> >> extremes is much worse than three so-so lines.
> >
> > In constrained-bre
On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 19:55, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> Joe Neeman wrote:
> > Suppose we add penalties. Let G(B) be the penalty function for a
> > partition into lines. G(B) has no nice structure at all. It will probably
> > be zero most of the time, with a few very large spikes. And we want to
> > min
Joe Neeman wrote:
On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 20:02, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
Juergen Reuter wrote:
Maybe I am totally wrong, but this discussion reminds me of an issue
that I raised on Nov 18, last year; see the thread starting here:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2005-11/msg00088.htm
On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 20:02, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> Juergen Reuter wrote:
> > Maybe I am totally wrong, but this discussion reminds me of an issue
> > that I raised on Nov 18, last year; see the thread starting here:
> >
> > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2005-11/msg00088.html
> >
Juergen Reuter wrote:
Maybe I am totally wrong, but this discussion reminds me of an issue
that I raised on Nov 18, last year; see the thread starting here:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2005-11/msg00088.html
I am mentioning this thread just in case that you are looking for
Joe Neeman wrote:
On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 16:31, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
TeX has exactly the same problem.
Does TeX allow the user to arbitrarily assign penalties for inserting a line
break at the end of any word?
Yes, I'm certain. See ch. 14 of the TeXbook (you can download that book,
btw). In fac
Joe Neeman wrote:
Suppose we add penalties. Let G(B) be the penalty function for a partition
into lines. G(B) has no nice structure at all. It will probably be zero most
of the time, with a few very large spikes. And we want to minimize F(B) +
G(B). Suppose the user makes a small change:
I be
On Fri, 7 Apr 2006, Joe Neeman wrote:
[...]
OK, so the solution will always have a certain level of instability. Just to
put some idea of scale on my previous example graphs, it's possible that
LilyPond will be tossing up between using 5 systems and using 10 systems. 5
systems provides much bett
On Fri, 7 Apr 2006 16:31, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> TeX has exactly the same problem.
Does TeX allow the user to arbitrarily assign penalties for inserting a line
break at the end of any word?
> Interestingly, Knuth seems to have
> accepted this. Isn't it possible to provide default values for th
> My current working copy of lilypond does what you just said (using
> inverse rest durations for penalties). I've done some testing and
> tweaking and I've come to the conclusion that penalties are a bad
> idea. I think everything to do with page breaks, line breaks and
> page turns should be i
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:16, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> Joe Neeman wrote:
> > As far as I can tell, page and line penalties are used _only_ for
> > forbidding and forcing page breaks.
>
> correct
>
> > Is there much chance they will ever be used for
> >
>
On 3/28/06, Han-Wen Nienhuys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hopefully, we can use inverse durations of rests as penalties to provide
> a somewhat sensible automatic line/page breaking.
I was thinking it'd be really good to try not to break sequences of
short notes. By the time the musician's eyes
Joe Neeman wrote:
As far as I can tell, page and line penalties are used _only_ for forbidding
and forcing page breaks.
correct
> Is there much chance they will ever be used for
anything else? If not, they could be replaced by booleans - this would make
hopefully, we can use inve
As far as I can tell, page and line penalties are used _only_ for forbidding
and forcing page breaks. Is there much chance they will ever be used for
anything else? If not, they could be replaced by booleans - this would make
the breaking algorithms a bit easier.
Also, there seems to be some
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