[IPsec] Maximum sizes of IKEv2 messages and UDP messages ?

2020-06-17 Thread Dang, Quynh H. (Fed)
Hi everyone, I am interested in knowing what are typical maximum sizes for IKEv2 messages and UDP messages in implementations. The reason is that the IKEv2's spec has a must and a should being 1280 and 3000 bytes respectively for IKEv2 messages, but does not have a maximum limit. As you know s

Re: [IPsec] Maximum sizes of IKEv2 messages and UDP messages ?

2020-06-17 Thread Paul Wouters
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020, Dang, Quynh H. (Fed) wrote: I am interested in knowing what are typical maximum sizes for IKEv2 messages and UDP messages in implementations.  The reason is that the IKEv2's spec has a must and a should being 1280 and 3000 bytes respectively for IKEv2 messages, but does n

Re: [IPsec] Maximum sizes of IKEv2 messages and UDP messages ?

2020-06-17 Thread Valery Smyslov
Hi Quinh, please look at the draft-ietf-ipsecme-ikev2-multiple-ke-00. It specifically addresses your concern about large public keys of PQ KE methods. Actually, it's generally OK to have public keys/signatures up to 64Kbytes. If you need to deal with larger keys, then some update of the

Re: [IPsec] Maximum sizes of IKEv2 messages and UDP messages ?

2020-06-17 Thread Dang, Quynh H. (Fed)
Thank you Valery and thank you everyone who responded to me. The approaches in the drafts https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipsecme-ikev2-multiple-ke-00#section-1.1 and https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ipsecme-ikev2-intermediate-04 look good to me. It looks like if/when someone im

Re: [IPsec] IPsec profile feedback wanted (draft autonomic control plane)

2020-06-17 Thread Toerless Eckert
Seems as if the reply to this sub-thread was overlooked, sorry. In the ACP, a node has multiple IPsec connection, each of which acts like a virtual link to another node and each of them will carry IPv6 packets with arbitrary IPv6 source and destination adresses. So the ideal, most compact option

Re: [IPsec] IPsec profile feedback wanted (draft autonomic control plane)

2020-06-17 Thread Paul Wouters
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020, Toerless Eckert wrote: These two choices are somewhat arbitrary, i am sure some vendor not following this draft will later come and complain that he prefers GRE in tunnel mode or IPinIP tunnel or transport mode, Note that you cannot _require_ transport mode, as the IKEv2 p

Re: [IPsec] IPsec profile feedback wanted (draft autonomic control plane)

2020-06-17 Thread Toerless Eckert
On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 01:59:18PM -0400, Paul Wouters wrote: > On Wed, 17 Jun 2020, Toerless Eckert wrote: > > > These two choices are somewhat arbitrary, i am sure some vendor > > not following this draft will later come and complain that he > > prefers GRE in tunnel mode or IPinIP tunnel or tra

Re: [IPsec] IPsec profile feedback wanted (draft autonomic control plane)

2020-06-17 Thread Paul Wouters
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020, Toerless Eckert wrote: Note that you cannot _require_ transport mode, as the IKEv2 protocol only allows you to _suggest_ transport mode. The peer can reject that suggestion and insist the connection uses tunnel mode. But we do define a profile of use of IPsec that both sid

Re: [IPsec] IPsec profile feedback wanted (draft autonomic control plane)

2020-06-17 Thread Toerless Eckert
Thank, Paul Given how you are focussing on this aspect, can i assume that you are happy with the everything else in the suggested text ? Wrt to tunnel vs. transport mode: If you can, please propose specific text that would improve the quality of the doc wrt. to your point. I can only observe:

Re: [IPsec] IPsec profile feedback wanted (draft autonomic control plane)

2020-06-17 Thread Paul Wouters
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020, Toerless Eckert wrote: Given how you are focussing on this aspect, can i assume that you are happy with the everything else in the suggested text ? I don't know yet. I have to re-read the last draft version. Wrt to tunnel vs. transport mode: If you can, please propose s

Re: [IPsec] IPsec profile feedback wanted (draft autonomic control plane)

2020-06-17 Thread Toerless Eckert
On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 05:07:48PM -0400, Paul Wouters wrote: > On Wed, 17 Jun 2020, Toerless Eckert wrote: > > > Given how you are focussing on this aspect, > > can i assume that you are happy with the everything > > else in the suggested text ? > > I don't know yet. I have to re-read the last d

Re: [IPsec] IPsec profile feedback wanted (draft autonomic control plane)

2020-06-17 Thread Michael Richardson
Paul Wouters wrote: >> These two choices are somewhat arbitrary, i am sure some vendor >> not following this draft will later come and complain that he >> prefers GRE in tunnel mode or IPinIP tunnel or transport mode, > Note that you cannot _require_ transport mode, as the IKEv2

Re: [IPsec] IPsec profile feedback wanted (draft autonomic control plane)

2020-06-17 Thread Michael Richardson
Paul Wouters wrote: > Technically, your profile could say to "request transport mode, and > refuse the connection if the other end is unwilling to use transport > mode", but that I would argue that would constitute a protocol > modification which is not what a profile should do.

Re: [IPsec] IPsec profile feedback wanted (draft autonomic control plane)

2020-06-17 Thread Paul Wouters
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020, Michael Richardson wrote: Paul Wouters wrote: > Technically, your profile could say to "request transport mode, and > refuse the connection if the other end is unwilling to use transport > mode", but that I would argue that would constitute a protocol > modifica

Re: [IPsec] IPsec profile feedback wanted (draft autonomic control plane)

2020-06-17 Thread Toerless Eckert
On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 08:55:12PM -0400, Paul Wouters wrote: > The RFC states: > >The USE_TRANSPORT_MODE notification MAY be included in a request >message that also includes an SA payload requesting a Child SA. It >requests that the Child SA use transport mode rather than tunnel mod