Martin Scotta
On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Matthew Weier O'Phinney <
weierophin...@php.net> wrote:
> On 2011-06-01, Sean Coates wrote:
> > > Now, the only reason I would personally support the array shortcut is
> > > if it was an implementation of JSON. I know that's not on the table
> > >
On 06.06.2011, at 20:03, John Crenshaw wrote:
> The desire is to be able to copy/paste things back and forth and make it work
> with only minor tweaks.
That sounds like a problem an IDE should solve, and not the language itself.
And again... there are potential encoding problems, plus single ve
On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 4:52 AM, David Zülke
wrote:
> Yes, I know. Then why are you and others demanding that the resulting syntax
> be fully compatible with JSON so it could be parsed by other JSON parsers?
> That makes no sense at all. A file with just ["foo"] in it won't be
> interpreted by
On 2011-06-01, Sean Coates wrote:
> > Now, the only reason I would personally support the array shortcut is
> > if it was an implementation of JSON. I know that's not on the table
> > here
>
> I don't think anything is officially off the table, unless we forego
> discussion.
>
> My application is
On 2011-06-01, Michael Shadle wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Sean Coates wrote:
>
>> This is not about saving five characters every time I type array(),
>> it's about making my systems all work together in a way that's a
>> little less abstracted, and a lot less prone to error.
>
> Why
On 04.06.2011, at 02:43, John Crenshaw wrote:
> This is a moot point. You wouldn't send that to json_decode. You would send
> it to json_encode. In other words json_decode({"yay": "ä"}) is totally wrong
> in the first place, because json_decode requires a string, not an object.
Just to quickly
On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 4:52 AM, David Zülke
wrote:
> Yes, I know. Then why are you and others demanding that the resulting syntax
> be fully compatible with JSON so it could be parsed by other JSON parsers?
> That makes no sense at all. A file with just ["foo"] in it won't be
> interpreted by P
From: David Zülke [mailto:david.zue...@bitextender.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 6:11 PM
> To: Andrei Zmievski
> Cc: Martin Scotta; Sean Coates; Anthony Ferrara; PHP internals
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)
>
> It's not FUD.
>
&
On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 3:11 PM, David Zülke
wrote:
> It's not FUD.
>
> It is different from writing json_decode('ä\u0123'), because json_decode() in
> PHP only accepts UTF-8 encoded input;
>
> Give it a shot:
>
> $chr = "\xC3\xA4"; // "ä" as UTF-8
> var_dump(json_decode('["' . $chr . '\u00e4"]')
Message-
From: David Zülke [mailto:david.zue...@bitextender.com]
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 6:11 PM
To: Andrei Zmievski
Cc: Martin Scotta; Sean Coates; Anthony Ferrara; PHP internals
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)
It's not FUD.
It is different from writing j
It's not FUD.
It is different from writing json_decode('ä\u0123'), because json_decode() in
PHP only accepts UTF-8 encoded input;
Give it a shot:
That'll produce:
> array(1) {
> [0]=>
> string(4) "ää"
> }
> NULL
Understand what the problem is now?
If someone does this in a latin1-encod
On Thu, 2 Jun 2011, David Zülke wrote:
> Just because the MongoDB developers were stupid enough to build a
> query language on top of JSON does not mean that JSON or JavaScript
> object literals need to be supported in PHP.
Can't agree more there.
Derick
--
http://derickrethans.nl | http://
On Wed, 1 Jun 2011, Pierre Joye wrote:
> pls add your svn handle in the right section:
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote
Voting does not belong on some wiki. It belongs here on the mailinglist.
Derick
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PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, vi
On Tue, 31 May 2011, Brian Moon wrote:
> Contra: Antony Dovgal, Derick Rethans, Jani Taskinen, Lokrain, Felipe Pena,
> Lukas Kahwe Smith, Marcus Boerger, David Soria Parra, Johannes Schlüter,
> Maciek Sokolewicz, Philip Olson, Ilia Alshanetsky, Daniel Brown, Jochem Maas,
> Hannes Magnusson, David
a, Inc.
>
>
>
> *From:* Eloy Bote Falcon [mailto:eloyb...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 02, 2011 3:58 AM
> *To:* Sanford Whiteman
> *Cc:* John Crenshaw; PHP internals
>
> *Subject:* Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)
>
>
>
>
>
> 201
State the case for JSON in a separate RFC and progress will be made, but I
think there is a fundamental mistake here: serialization formats are the
*means* for interoperability, not the ends.
The only way I see JSONy syntax would help is if PHP code —with JSONy
syntax— would be parsed by a JSON pa
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 10:19 PM, Sean Coates wrote:
>>> If people vote on this now, will further discussion about how this SHOULD
>>> work be shut down with "we already voted on this"?
>> which other discussions do you wish? Json is clearly not an option and
>> not enough people (but a couple) lik
On Jun 2, 2011, at 1:19 PM, Sean Coates wrote:
>>> If people vote on this now, will further discussion about how this SHOULD
>>> work be shut down with "we already voted on this"?
>> which other discussions do you wish? Json is clearly not an option and
>> not enough people (but a couple) likes o
Stop spreading FUD, please.
It's no different than writing json_decode("ä\u0123").
Your statement, "the stuff in bar in UTF-8" is wrong. The \u0123
escape sequence is a representation of a Unicode character, not the
character itself. This representation can be encoded in any
ASCII-compatible enco
>> If people vote on this now, will further discussion about how this SHOULD
>> work be shut down with "we already voted on this"?
> which other discussions do you wish? Json is clearly not an option and
> not enough people (but a couple) likes or wants it.
>
> The RFC is about short array syntax
Hi!
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote some devs still did
not choose which syntax they want.
Just to be clear on my vote, I'd really like to have [], and I think we
MUST keep => there, but I don't care either way about ':'.
--
Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect
SugarCRM:
> There's no need to be rude. If you can't make your point without
> attacking people, then you need a better argument.
If you can't make your point without misusing terms to the point of
making yourself untrustworthy on that level alone, stop trying to
argue.
The "lazy programmer" axiom
On 6/2/11 11:08 AM, Pierre Joye wrote:
reminder #2, pls do vote here:
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote some devs still did
not choose which syntax they want.
I don't really care which syntax wins as long as one of them gets rolled in.
Brian.
--
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime De
so put +1 on both :D
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 9:37 PM, Brian Moon wrote:
> On 6/2/11 11:08 AM, Pierre Joye wrote:
>>
>> reminder #2, pls do vote here:
>> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote some devs still did
>> not choose which syntax they want.
>
> I don't really care which syntax
which other discussions do you wish? Json is clearly not an option and
not enough people (but a couple) likes or wants it.
The RFC is about short array syntax and as far as I can see there is
already a clear consensus for one of the proposed new syntax.
Cheers,
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 9:53 PM, Se
> pls do vote here:
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote some devs still did
> not choose which syntax they want.
If people vote on this now, will further discussion about how this SHOULD work
be shut down with "we already voted on this"?
S
No we can't; I already explained why in another email last night. Copypasta:
json_decode() can deal with Unicode sequences because decodes to UTF-8. That is
not possible in a language construct:
What if I do this, in a latin1 encoded file:
$x = {foo: "ä", bar: "\u0123"}
Should that then give m
es with you) stop fussing about it.
John Crenshaw
Priacta, Inc.
From: Eloy Bote Falcon [mailto:eloyb...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 3:58 AM
To: Sanford Whiteman
Cc: John Crenshaw; PHP internals
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)
2011/6/2 Sanford Whiteman
mail
> Also matter of opinion, and of experience. Apart from the fact that
> my use of jQuery amounts to a few weeks out of a (mumble)-year
> programming career, no I don't use pure JSON for it - Javascript
> object literals, yes, but not pure JSON.
It's not just you. The claim that people
reminder #2, pls do vote here:
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote some devs still did
not choose which syntax they want.
Thanks,
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, Brian Moon wrote:
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays
--
Pierre
@pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net |
Could we first go out with fully JSON compatible version for 5.4?
and then later decide the => stuff based on how that worked.
Native JSON is a big stuff for userland, and I'm pretty sure it will bring a
hole of core version upgrades.
Martin Scotta
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 7:09 PM, Sean Coates
Even though I have quite mixed feelings about this, I think I am
finally ready to cast
my +1. Over the past few days I've discussed with a few people and
noticed the need, or rather a strong desire to have this feature in
PHP and most people seemed to care only little about how it was done
as long
2011/6/2 Ford, Mike :
>> -Original Message-
>> From: John Crenshaw [mailto:johncrens...@priacta.com]
>> Sent: 01 June 2011 23:00
>>
> skip
>
>> 4. The format most consistent with other languages is JSON
>
> Again, matter of experience. Last time I counted, I'd used upward of
> 30 different
> -Original Message-
> From: John Crenshaw [mailto:johncrens...@priacta.com]
> Sent: 01 June 2011 23:00
>
> Spot on. It has nothing to do with extra typing (and that sort of
> design is part of what ruined Ruby). My fingers move plenty fast and
> if extra characters make things more safe o
On Thu, Jun 02, 2011 at 08:21:37AM +, Ford, Mike wrote:
> > Back on the soapbox. All of this is just to reduce typing "array" (5
> > characters) before things?
>
> Not here. For me, the shorter syntax is simply an order of magnitude
> more readable. I really don't care how much typing is invo
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Shadle [mailto:mike...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 01 June 2011 21:37
>
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Pierre Joye
> wrote:
>
> > I modified the vote page, pls move your votes to the desired
> syntax
> > (or global -1)
>
> This is a good idea to group thin
2011/6/2 Sanford Whiteman
> > I don't think anyone cares about JSON for the sake of being perfect
> > JSON, I didn't intend to give that impression.
>
> Then you should stop saying "pure JSON" and "true JSON" constantly!
>
> > I'm only hoping for something that generally works on par with all
>
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Sean Coates wrote:
> > Now, the only reason I would personally support the array shortcut is
> > if it was an implementation of JSON. I know that's not on the table
> > here
>
> I don't think anything is officially off the table, unless we forego
> discussion.
>
> I don't think anyone cares about JSON for the sake of being perfect
> JSON, I didn't intend to give that impression.
Then you should stop saying "pure JSON" and "true JSON" constantly!
> I'm only hoping for something that generally works on par with all
> the other JSON parsers in the world
>>> );
>>>
>>> Vs. the JSON form:
>>> $query = {
>>> time: {'$and': [
>>> {'$gt': strtotime('-1 day')},
>>> {'$lt': time()},
>>> ]},
>>> '$or': [
>
represents.
>
> John Crenshaw
> Priacta, Inc.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: dukeofgaming [mailto:dukeofgam...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 6:52 PM
> To: Michael Shadle
> Cc: Sean Coates; Anthony Ferrara; PHP internals
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Shor
To: Michael Shadle
Cc: Sean Coates; Anthony Ferrara; PHP internals
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)
I still don't get it, the idea of making it look like json wont make it
json, it will be PHP, and if you dare to write you "jsony" object/array with
single qu
gt;>{'$gt': strtotime('-1 day')},
>>{'$lt': time()},
>> ]},
>>'$or': [
>>{foo: 'bar'},
>>{hello: 'world'}
>>]
>> };
>>
>> Because of the clear re
hi David,
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 12:47 AM, David Zülke
wrote:
> Just because the MongoDB developers were stupid enough to build a query
> language on top of JSON
Many of us know that you have a deep and constant hate for MongoDB.
However please do respect the netiquette and every developers her
I still don't get it, the idea of making it look like json wont make it
json, it will be PHP, and if you dare to write you "jsony" object/array with
single quoted strings wont break the code even when its not JSON.
I'll say it again: not even Javascript supports 100% valid JSON. I'll say it
even m
gt; Because of the clear readability difference I'll take anything, but JSON
> would be much better than just an "array shorthand".
>
> John Crenshaw
> Priacta, Inc.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Anthony Ferrara [mailto:ircmax...@gmail.com]
> Sent: W
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 12:22 AM, Marcel Esser wrote:
> It's also not about PHP vs Node in any way; it's about interacting with
> APIs that make heavy use of JSON or JSON-superset notations.
PHP supports json since years, http://www.php.net/json_decode /
encode, as well as many other serializatio
PHP internals
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)
> Now, the only reason I would personally support the array shortcut is
> if it was an implementation of JSON. I know that's not on the table
> here
I don't think anything is officially off the table,
> Vs. the JSON form:
> {
> time: {'$and': [
> {'$gt': strtotime('-1 day')},
> {'$lt': time()},
> ]},
> '$or': [
> {foo: 'bar'},
> {hello: 'world'}
> ]
> }
That isn't valid JSON for many different reasons... if you think
that's "pure JSON," you
> Why not make your data in JSON and then $foo = json_encode($data) ?
For exactly the same reason people actually use callbacks efficiently, now that
they don't have to create_function() them.
S
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PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/u
Parsing together strings that mix single and double quotes, variables,
defined constants and etc, makes the problem significantly worse, not
better. So, json_encode is not a solution at all.
It's also not about PHP vs Node in any way; it's about interacting with
APIs that make heavy use of JSON or
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Sean Coates wrote:
> This is not about saving five characters every time I type array(), it's
> about making my systems all work together in a way that's a little less
> abstracted, and a lot less prone to error.
Why not make your data in JSON and then $foo = js
I've been giving it some more thought, and really, the more I think about
it, the more I am with Sean on the idea of having first-class JSON
support. It really just makes sense. PHP is a web-oriented language, and
we will all use it at some point. It's also very concise, and it's really
easy to lea
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 11:59 PM, John Crenshaw wrote:
> Spot on. It has nothing to do with extra typing (and that sort of design is
> part of what ruined Ruby). My fingers move plenty fast and if extra
> characters make things more safe or more readable, I'll be the first to sign
> up. In this
;array shorthand".
John Crenshaw
Priacta, Inc.
-Original Message-
From: Anthony Ferrara [mailto:ircmax...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 5:18 PM
To: PHP internals
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)
Personally, I think focusing on a character savi
> Now, the only reason I would personally support the array shortcut is
> if it was an implementation of JSON. I know that's not on the table
> here
I don't think anything is officially off the table, unless we forego discussion.
My application is largely JSON-powered. We pass data from back- to
, Inc.
-Original Message-
From: Chris Stockton [mailto:chrisstockto...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 5:23 PM
To: Michael Shadle
Cc: Pierre Joye; PHP internals
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)
Hello,
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Michael Shadle
First, why not go the opposite way and standardize the syntax - why
not make object() or Object() work like array() or Array()?
$person = object('name' => 'Justin',
'city' => 'ogden',
'state' => 'ut',
'country' => 'usa',
'favoriteNumbers' => array(4, 12, 37, 42),
'unluckyNumber
Hello,
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 2:17 PM, Anthony Ferrara wrote:
> Personally, I think focusing on a character savings is the wrong
> reason to take on any problem. I don't care how long it takes for me
> to type code. I don't care how much extra hdd space it takes. But
> what I do care about is
Hello,
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Michael Shadle wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Pierre Joye wrote:
>
> 5 character difference for each array being saved. That's it. At the
> expense of syntax highlighters, IDEs, books, all becoming outdated and
> need to be updated. For a language
Personally, I think focusing on a character savings is the wrong
reason to take on any problem. I don't care how long it takes for me
to type code. I don't care how much extra hdd space it takes. But
what I do care about is how readable it is.
To me, the array shortcut syntax is pointless. Do
To address the soapbox:
Its not just to reduce the five characters at the beginning, but when you have
more complex structures as well. There was already a great example shown
(http://paste.roguecoders.com/p/0747f2363c228a09e0ddd6f8ec52f2e8.html) of that.
Also, if object support is added (which
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Pierre Joye wrote:
> I modified the vote page, pls move your votes to the desired syntax
> (or global -1)
This is a good idea to group things like this.
Back on the soapbox. All of this is just to reduce typing "array" (5
characters) before things?
Old:
$foo = a
On Jun 1, 2011, at 12:43 PM, Pierre Joye wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Philip Olson wrote:
>
>> I'm choosing to ignore this voting mechanism because it feels wrong.
>
>
> We always voted based on php.net accounts (@php.net that is), whether
> it is a good thing or not is another qu
>
>
> > David
>
> David who? :)
>
>
David Vega
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 9:43 PM, dukeofgaming wrote:
> Yup, it feels rushed. The RFC should be cleaned up and I think this are the
> main items:
> - Ditch ":"
> - Ditch the JSON topic or open a separate RFC with it
> - Introduce the "{ }" syntax for objects and change the title
Both json and obje
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Philip Olson wrote:
> >>> Reminder: Pls add your votes here:
> >>> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote
> >>
> >>
> >> Who is allowed to vote?, are userland votes still going to count?, if
> so,
> >> how does one qualify as userland voter?.
>
> >
> >
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Philip Olson wrote:
> I'm choosing to ignore this voting mechanism because it feels wrong.
We always voted based on php.net accounts (@php.net that is), whether
it is a good thing or not is another question and unrelated to this
RFC (for one, I consider that non
>>> Reminder: Pls add your votes here:
>>> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote
>>
>>
>> Who is allowed to vote?, are userland votes still going to count?, if so,
>> how does one qualify as userland voter?.
>
> I think the one that is active can be a voter.
> Or maybe the ones tha
I think the one that is active can be a voter.
Or maybe the ones that have any karma on php environment is considered a voter.
Cheers,
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 4:21 PM, dukeofgaming wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Pierre Joye wrote:
>
>> Reminder: Pls add your votes here:
>> https://wik
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Pierre Joye wrote:
> Reminder: Pls add your votes here:
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote
Who is allowed to vote?, are userland votes still going to count?, if so,
how does one qualify as userland voter?.
Best regards,
David Vega
Hi Lester,
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Lester Caine wrote:
> Chris Stockton wrote:
>>>
>>> Reminder: Pls add your votes here:
>>> > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote
>>> >
>>
>> May I please have wiki rights restored to my user "cstockton" if
>> possible, I would like to vo
Chris Stockton wrote:
Reminder: Pls add your votes here:
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote
>
May I please have wiki rights restored to my user "cstockton" if
possible, I would like to vote.
It would seem some people have not been watching the news?
http://www.php.net/ top n
Hello,
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Pierre Joye wrote:
> Reminder: Pls add your votes here:
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote
>
May I please have wiki rights restored to my user "cstockton" if
possible, I would like to vote.
--
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mai
Reminder: Pls add your votes here:
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, Brian Moon wrote:
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays
>
> Since this was brought again recently by Rasmus
> (http://markmail.org/message/fx3brcm4ekh645se) and on Twit
+1
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Brian Moon wrote:
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays
>
> Since this was brought again recently by Rasmus (
> http://markmail.org/message/fx3brcm4ekh645se) and on Twitter where several
> people including Andi chimed in on it and Ilia seemed to reve
On 05/31/2011 10:42 PM, Brian Moon wrote:
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays
I can has vote on this RFC https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforfunctions ?
--
Wbr,
Antony Dovgal
---
http://pinba.org - realtime statistics for PHP
--
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing Lis
On 06/01/2011 01:59 AM, Rasmus wrote:
Other than a couple of grumpy old-timers, I
think we are in agreement that we should add a short array syntax.
Well, thanks for calling me that! =)
But seriously, I don't think all of these people are grumpy old-timers:
Contra: Antony Dovgal, Derick Ret
btwr, I did not mean to kill the discussions but it would be awesome
if every participant would read the past discussions about this RFC
and replies accordingly.
Yes, there are alternatives and other needs related to this RFC, but
it is really time to go with it or forget it.
Cheers,
On Wed, Jun
pls add your svn handle in the right section:
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays/vote
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Sebastian Bergmann wrote:
> Am 31.05.2011 20:42, schrieb Brian Moon:
>> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays
>
> -1
>
> --
> Sebastian Bergmann
can we please (please!) focus on voting on the RFC and avoid an
enumeration of all possible syntax, formats, ideas, trolls&co we had
in the last decade? Simply vote and let us move one.
Thanks for your understanding,
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Marcel Esser wrote:
> My kneejerk reaction to t
Am 31.05.2011 20:42, schrieb Brian Moon:
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays
-1
--
Sebastian BergmannCo-Founder and Principal Consultant
http://sebastian-bergmann.de/ http://thePHP.cc/
--
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing
My kneejerk reaction to this, as no one particularly important, is to
not allow mixing those syntaxes.
I looked at the RFC a minute ago, and I read a reference to a parallel
solution to this being named parameters. Which, I think, is not
accurate. The problem with the array() notation is defin
My personal feel about this is that yes, short arrays are not bad, but
things like
$a = new A;
$a[array()];
just scare the crap of me when I see them. To me PHP is easy on syntax
and it's good. When I see Ruby or Python code with all it's crazy
magic I feel sick. Still one day I will have to lear
Em Tue, 31 May 2011 19:42:18 +0100, Brian Moon
escreveu:
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays
-1
I see very little benefit, specially in my keyboard layout, where typing [
and ] requires pressing Alt Gr + 8/9.
Plus, it can cause confusion because [] is currently used for arra
Holly crap, god save us from that.
+1 on short syntax (personally I try to avoid it in JS too - I use new
Array() or JSON), but no : please. It's just ridiculous for PHP.
2011/6/1 Patrick ALLAERT :
> 2011/5/31 Brian Moon :
>> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays
>>
>> Since this was brou
2011/5/31 Brian Moon :
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays
>
> Since this was brought again recently by Rasmus
> (http://markmail.org/message/fx3brcm4ekh645se) and on Twitter where several
> people including Andi chimed in on it and Ilia seemed to reverse his
> thoughts as well (with ca
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 8:42 PM, Brian Moon wrote:
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays
>
>
+1 for the current patch.
Tyrael
2011/5/31 Brian Moon :
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays
>
> Since this was brought again recently by Rasmus
> (http://markmail.org/message/fx3brcm4ekh645se) and on Twitter where several
> people including Andi chimed in on it and Ilia seemed to reverse his
> thoughts as well (with ca
+1 from me to *any* of the short-form suggestions (JSON or otherwise).
On 31 May 2011 19:42, Brian Moon wrote:
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays
>
> Since this was brought again recently by Rasmus
> (http://markmail.org/message/fx3brcm4ekh645se) and on Twitter where several
> people
Michael Maclean wrote:
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays
Since this was brought again recently by Rasmus
I'm all for this, though I would confess to having a preference for the
second syntax:
$arr = [ 'foo' => 'bar', 'baz' => 'foo' ]
seems to fit better with PHP than the other
Hi!
If a handful of "experienced people" decided to go forward with my
crackpot idea above, would you be in support, just because they are?
No, but I wouldn't say that nobody needs it. I'd say it's a bad idea
despite somebody needing it, for reasons so and so.
I figured it was tough, based
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 12:35 AM, Michael Shadle wrote:
> I don't really want to stand on my soapbox any longer, as it's obvious
> where the crowd leans on this one, but I need to clarify a couple
> points a bit and feel obligated to reply to another.
>
> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 10:15 PM, Stas Mal
I don't really want to stand on my soapbox any longer, as it's obvious
where the crowd leans on this one, but I need to clarify a couple
points a bit and feel obligated to reply to another.
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 10:15 PM, Stas Malyshev wrote:
> Fundamental changes means "throw out your product
Also, take a peak at this: http://www.phpsadness.com/sad/45
And compare it with this:
http://perldoc.perl.org/perldsc.html#Declaration-of-a-HASH-OF-COMPLEX-RECORDS
Regards,
David Vega
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 12:15 AM, Stas Malyshev wrote:
> Hi!
>
>
> I agree, it would be a break a lot of code.
Hi!
I agree, it would be a break a lot of code. But I'd rather see some
fundamental changes at that level (call it PHP 6, make it not BC with
PHP 5.x or earlier), and remove the cruft and standardize on some of
the slop.
Fundamental changes means "throw out your production code and start
deve
+1
On May 31, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Brian Moon wrote:
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/shortsyntaxforarrays
>
> Since this was brought again recently by Rasmus
> (http://markmail.org/message/fx3brcm4ekh645se) and on Twitter where several
> people including Andi chimed in on it and Ilia seemed to reverse
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Rasmus wrote:
> Because most of those can't be done without breaking millions of lines
> of code out there. And a couple of people worked on Unicode for years
> and got very little support. That is not a small project. This short
> syntax for arrays is probably th
On May 31, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Rasmus wrote:
> On 05/31/2011 02:59 PM, Michael Shadle wrote:
>> Forgive me for injecting my $.02 here but what is the original reason
>> for changing the most basic language syntax to be a little bit
>> shorter?
>>
>> Is it hurting anyone to type out "array()" or so
I agree with this. So the idea would be adding short hand object notation for
PHP, inspired by JSON, but we also allow for associative arrays. So:
$object = { 'var1': 'one', 'var2': 'two' }; // for an object
$assoc_array = [ 'var1': 'one', 'var2': 'two' ]; // for an array
// even mix and match
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