Just because the MongoDB developers were stupid enough to build a query language on top of JSON does not mean that JSON or JavaScript object literals need to be supported in PHP. And it wouldn't be possible anyway since JSON allows Unicode escape sequences, and PHP cannot even represent those as it is not aware of runtime encodings.
Besides, outside the use case of json_decode(), stdClass is rarely ever useful,
so I don't understand why we're even discussing {} shorthands here. It's not in
the RFC either, so good job on focusing on the issue and not diluting the
discussion.
Getting back to the RFC: I think it's problematic to have two separate syntaxes
for the key/value separator. For consistency's sake, I'd rather just have "=>"
but not ":". Just my $0.02.
David
On 02.06.2011, at 00:09, John Crenshaw wrote:
> For small linear arrays, neither format is "more readable" but for even
> mildly complex structures, there is a clear difference. Consider the
> following Mongo query:
>
> $query = array(
> 'time'=>array('$and'=>array(
> array('$gt'=>strtotime('-1 day')),
> array('$lt'=>time()),
> )),
> '$or'=>array(
> array('foo'=>'bar'),
> array('hello'=>'world')
> )
> );
>
> Vs. the JSON form:
> $query = {
> time: {'$and': [
> {'$gt': strtotime('-1 day')},
> {'$lt': time()},
> ]},
> '$or': [
> {foo: 'bar'},
> {hello: 'world'}
> ]
> };
>
> Because of the clear readability difference I'll take anything, but JSON
> would be much better than just an "array shorthand".
>
> John Crenshaw
> Priacta, Inc.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Ferrara [mailto:ircmax...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2011 5:18 PM
> To: PHP internals
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Short syntax for Arrays (redux)
>
> Personally, I think focusing on a character savings is the wrong
> reason to take on any problem. I don't care how long it takes for me
> to type code. I don't care how much extra hdd space it takes. But
> what I do care about is how readable it is.
>
> To me, the array shortcut syntax is pointless. Do you really mean to
> tell me that `[1, 2]` is more readable/easier to understand than
> `array(1,2)`? To me, it's about a wash.
>
> However, the object shortcut syntax is a major win. For example:
>
> $person = new stdClass();
> $person->city = 'ogden';
> $person->state = 'ut';
> $perspn->country = 'usa';
> $person->favoriteNumbers = array(4, 12, 37, 42);
> $person->somethingWithNumbers();
> $person->unluckyNumbers = array(6, 13, 21);
> $person->likesPhp = 'very much so';
>
> vs
>
> $person = { 'name' => 'Justin',
> 'city' => 'ogden',
> 'state' => 'ut',
> 'country' => 'usa',
> 'favoriteNumbers' => [ 4, 12, 37, 42],
> 'unluckyNumbers' => [ 6, 13, 21],
> 'likesPhp' => 'very much so'
> }
>
> Did you notice what happened there? There's two differences. Try to
> find them. Neither would be possible with the shortcut syntax.
>
> Now, the only reason I would personally support the array shortcut is
> if it was an implementation of JSON. I know that's not on the table
> here, but that's the only benefit I can see to implementing a shortcut
> for arrays (that would save 5 characters per instance).
>
> Just my $0.02...
>
> Anthony
>
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Justin Carmony <jus...@justincarmony.com>
> wrote:
>> To address the soapbox:
>>
>> Its not just to reduce the five characters at the beginning, but when you
>> have more complex structures as well. There was already a great example
>> shown (http://paste.roguecoders.com/p/0747f2363c228a09e0ddd6f8ec52f2e8.html)
>> of that. Also, if object support is added (which we need to add to the RFC),
>> you can cut down on a lot more verbose code, especially with objects.
>>
>> $person = { 'name' => 'Justin',
>> 'city' => 'ogden',
>> 'state' => 'ut',
>> 'country' => 'usa',
>> 'favoriteNumbers' => [ 4, 12, 37, 42],
>> 'unluckyNumbers' => [ 6, 13, 21],
>> 'likesPhp' => 'very much so'
>> };
>>
>> Characters: 192
>>
>> Current way:
>>
>> $person = new stdClass();
>> $person->city = 'ogden';
>> $person->state = 'ut';
>> $person->country = 'usa';
>> $person->favoriteNumbers = array(4, 12, 37, 42);
>> $person->unluckyNumbers = array(6, 13, 21);
>> $person->likesPhp = 'very much so';
>>
>> Characters: 229
>>
>> That is a 37 character difference. But the real driving factor is given
>> PHP's lack of named parameter syntax, passing objects and arrays (or
>> sometimes a mix, depending on the framework) is becoming very popular. So
>> not only do you save some typing just once, but if you use this pattern a
>> lot, you save a lot of typing over your entire project. Also, when dealing
>> with objects, I have to make sure I retype "person" correctly each time. If
>> I don't, I'll get a notice error. But with the new syntax, it'll throw a
>> parsing error so I can know a lot quicker what my issue is.
>>
>> As for syntax highlighters, IDEs, books, etc all being outdated, first off
>> no one is suggesting to deprecate the array() function. So you will only use
>> this new syntax if you choose to do so. Second, we broke syntax
>> highlighters, IDEs, and so forth when we introduced namespaces, and every
>> IDE and syntax highlighter I used updated very quickly to support them. I'm
>> assuming the IDEs spent a great deal more time adding Namespacing support
>> than it will to support a short syntax for arrays and objects.
>>
>> PHP has made short syntax for other things, such a if statement short codes.
>> Yet many books don't cover it, since it is one of those things you read in
>> the documentation later and decide "Do I want to use this?" No one is
>> forcing anyone to use (1 == 1 ? true : false) type of if/then logic. The
>> same will work with the new syntax.
>>
>> My two cents.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> On Jun 1, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Michael Shadle wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Pierre Joye <pierre....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I modified the vote page, pls move your votes to the desired syntax
>>>> (or global -1)
>>>
>>> This is a good idea to group things like this.
>>>
>>> Back on the soapbox. All of this is just to reduce typing "array" (5
>>> characters) before things?
>>>
>>> Old:
>>> $foo = array('a' => 'b', 'c' => 'd');
>>>
>>> More than likely new:
>>> $foo = ['a' => 'b', 'c' => 'd'];
>>>
>>> 5 character difference for each array being saved. That's it. At the
>>> expense of syntax highlighters, IDEs, books, all becoming outdated and
>>> need to be updated. For a language construct that has been around for
>>> what, 10 years?
>>>
>>> Oh, and for anyone desiring a ":" for this new shorthand, why stop at
>>> array shorthand. Why not change this from:
>>> foreach($foo as $key => $val)
>>>
>>> To:
>>> foreach($foo as $key: $val)
>>>
>>> That would save one character for each array iteration like that.
>>>
>>> Also - if we're worried about saving characters and shorthand why not
>>> just remove the "$" language construct? That's a LOT of keystrokes. In
>>> my WordPress install, that's 75,412 characters saved. Versus 6,960
>>> "array(" matches, which would save 34,800 characters.
>>>
>>> These were quick examples from a coworker. Just another PHP user who
>>> said "wait why would they make another way to express an array?"
>>>
>>> --
>>> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>>
>>
>>
>
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