y to find out which option is more real, is to
write the code + testswhich would need to be done anyway, even
assuming the best case scenario.
cheers
Dan
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users for a while now. I'll try
and finish that email, but I think setting up something like that,
would be a better path than the one we're currently on.
To note, it will probably take some time to figure this out. I'm
reasonably sure people will have opinions. Possibly quite a few.
Hello internals,
I'm opening the vote for the 'PDO driver specific sub-classes' RFC:
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/pdo_driver_specific_subclasses
It will last for two weeks and end on 2023-07-17T17:00:00Z
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To uns
so have
Sorry, I am in too much pain to look at those before the deadline.
There is always 8.4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wccRif2DaGs .
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omeone does [`new PDO(...)`], will they now get back `PdoPgsql`,
No.
New`ing one object, and getting a different object back would be far
too surprising to even be contemplated.
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hrough the C api.
As that means that SQLite extensions can only be loaded through C code
(not through SQL), and if someone can upload and execute code to your
server, your server is compromised anyway, having to edit ini files to
enable extension loading, seems like a bad tradeoff.
Thoughts
Hi internals,
I'm now opening the discussion for the Closure self-reference RFC:
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/closure_self_reference
This was previously discussed as a draft here:
https://externals.io/message/112216#112216
Thank-you to KapitanOczywisty for the implementation.
cheers
Da
27;positive sum' proposal.
Or as Ilija Tovilo wrote:
>
> The benefits seem worth the maintenance cost, even if small for the
> average user.
cheers
Dan
Ack
* At least in this case, because having to deal with code that uses
inheritance is already punishment enough.
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prevent
people wondering why their code is behaving surprisingly before it is
static analysed.
Also, not everyone uses static analysis tools.
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emselves, and hope that other people don't
spend too much time arguing with someone who has a pattern of being
unreasonable.
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Dan
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On Sun, 21 May 2023 at 06:16, Marc wrote:
>
> Do you think this could be an acceptable BC-break
No. Suggesting changing a 30 year old maths operations is a huge BC break.
> or should this be a different function?
Just make your own that does precisely what you want...
cheers
Dan
Ack
7;good' or 'bad' ?
I hope I am at least consistent with my concerns about annotations.
Danack wrote in https://externals.io/message/114116#114196
>
> I think I disagree with this very strongly, and plan* to vote against
> any RFC that embeds another language in annotations.**
expect PHP 8.4 to be the last release of the PHP 8.x branch?
* Is there, or could there be, a process for planning when the next
major release is going to happen? Or would requiring volunteers to
plan their volunteering multiple years in advance be too much of a
burden?
cheers
Dan
Ack
[1]
n.
Having one version where both the old version of the function, and the
new version work is the minimum (imo) as it allows people to run the
same code on both. But anything more than that is a nicety, not a
requirement. Also, in my opinion.
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Dan
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and systems@, so hopefully something will be adjusted.
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gh.
And yeahthis is one of the reason doing RFCs is annoying. People
are often persnickety over details.
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ject to that are people who would
vote yes to "deprecate and remove" but only if it matches their
preferred timescale, and would otherwise vote no. Which probably isn't
a thing.
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; deprecation in 8.3 + removal when it's ready seems to be okay.
I think I don't understand your concern.
If a problem is discovered with a planned removal of something, people
on this project are mostly reasonable*, and a small RFC to adjust to
the new circumstances would be very likely
> Why move the temporary file when it is already a temporary file, right?
If you don't want to have to write the file again with a copy?
On Sat, May 6, 2023 at 1:56 PM Hans Krentel wrote:
>
>
>
> On Saturday 29 April 2023 09:32:42 (+02:00), Dan Liebner wrote:
>
>
On Tue, 7 Jun 2022 at 15:25, Philip Hofstetter
wrote:
>
> On 6 Jun 2022 at 21:15:12, Dan Ackroyd wrote:
>>
>> 2. Other than the SQLite blobOpen functionality, does anyone know of
>> any other functionality that is exposed by SQLite or Postgres that
>> isn't
while code which invokes
> get_parent_class() without parameters should be modified to use
> get_parent_class($this) instead.
What would the equivalent code get_parent_class() for static methods? e.g.
class A {}
class B extends A {
public static function foo() {
echo get_parent_c
2000 most popular PHP packages rely on calling
> session_set_save_handler() with 6 or more arguments.
I doubt analysing github is going to give a useful measure of the
impact of this RFC. Functions like session_set_save_handler are going
to be used in custom code written for a company th
ar as as I'm aware, there hasn't been a problem with an RFC
passing and the core contributors refusing to accept it. So please can
we discuss the exact problem you want to solve, so that we can agree
it's the right problem to solve, before suggesting solutions?
If nothing else, some pro
Are there any inherent problems with moving a file created with tmpfile()?
In practice, it seems that it can be done and the file will not be deleted
after being moved and the file handle closed.
Thanks,
Dan
to see typed callables, and other forms of type
aliasing, as they would be huge improvements in being able to write
code that is easy to reason about and maintain, I don't want to seem
them as soon as possible, having taken short-cuts against good
language design.
"No is temporary, yes
at of being clear...
particularly when I've gotten the wrong end of the stick.
Yeah, that would be a BC break.
For now, I'll update the RFC words to say that, but that means we need
to go and do some thinking, to figure out how to proceed.
cheers
Dan
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up the technical discussion with people's aesthetic beliefs.
cheers
Dan
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(https://github.com/ThomasWeinert/php-extension-sample) of how to
implement features in PHP internals, where each branch implements a
single feature. The way to use this set of examples is to find the
branch that contains what you want to implement, check it out, and
then look at the commits in that bra
t aesthetics.
Notes here: https://phpopendocs.com/rfc_codex/class_method_callable
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On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 at 17:32, Claude Pache wrote:
>
> The proposed modification of `function_exists()` will break existing code:
Please can you submit a failing test to
https://github.com/Girgias/php-src/tree/zend_autoloader that shows a
BC break.
cheers
Dan
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ig_Template_Loader to
Twig\Template\Loader migration.
I'll add it to my list at https://phpopendocs.com/rfc_codex It would
seem a good "my first RFC" for someone.
Though, function migration could also be solved in a far more powerful
way. Check my forthcoming reply to Rowan..
There is this one thing that I
noticed recently and that concerns me: PHP devs don’t use functions."
- Nikita Popov
https://www.npopov.com/2012/08/10/Are-PHP-developers-functophobic.html
Nicolas Grekas wrote:
> It doesn't enable anything that a script generating a list of include
stateme
utoloading would need to stay as part of PHP core itself.
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things are possible, but I'd strongly prefer to have that be a
separate discussion, which it's listed as a future scope:
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/core-autoloading#higher_performance_through_maps
If nothing else, it's going to take people time to figure out how they
are going to or
>
> The change in null handling. We have a codebase that dates to 1998. It's
> fairly well written. Upgrading to 8 was a major effort (4 devs, 2 QA) that
> took almost a year due to the change in null handling. We have 40 XML and
> JSON APIs with various banks. Elements may or may not exist. The da
PHP is the foundation for many legacy codebases, and breaking old projects
isn't really a great selling point of new PHP versions.
Hopefully this scenario will affect enough people that 7.4 will continue to
be maintained by some group of people into the foreseeable future.
Best,
Dan
On Sat, A
iously better,
and not just replacing one set of problems with another, the
discussions might move.
> I am really impressed how elegant and actually genius the enum
> implementation is. So well rounded, minimal, yet creates so much
> value!
And it only took the PHP project about 20 yea
ctions in a data-driven way.
cheers
Dan
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Which commit?
On Tue, Feb 28, 2023, 3:17 PM Dmitry Stogov wrote:
> Hi @internals,
>
> I have to say that we came to a serious conflict.
>
> Recently we voted for inluce cleanup RFC
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/include_cleanup and it was declined.
> Despite that a series of code refactoring commits
er than RFC authors having to take time and energy to
justify why they are reverting unapproved edits to their RFC.
But yep, if you want to do it as part of a separate RFC, go for it.
cheers
Dan
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function, that returns a
more usable set of data than debug_backtrace does. This does sound
like useful functionality in other cases than __get.
If the amount of data returned by including all the backtrace is a
concern, that sounds to me like including an max number of frames
would solve that?
problem they are
trying to solve first, before suggesting solutions.
> I'd probably push for something more compact as a syntax
Quite. Indeed. Yes.
Danack wrote:
>
> Well, other than to use a different syntax.
>
> https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/114542
$(Zoq, Pik);
cheers
On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 at 20:51, Larry Garfield wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2023, at 12:32 PM, Dan Ackroyd wrote:
>
> >
> > $fnConstructor = Closure::fromClassConstructor(Zoq::class);
> > // signature of $fnConstructor is the same as `function(Fot $fot): Zoq`
> &
h isn't shorter, but at least allows passing the callables around
with the type inspectable. Though it might be nicer if PHP had the
ability to definte function signatures types.
That sort of solution obviously doesn't address the problem of having
to refer to the class method as a string, b
ome historical driver-specific methods).
I'm planning on submitting
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/pdo_driver_specific_subclasses in a few
weeks*, which will allow per-driver specific methods in a 'proper'
way.
cheers
Dan
Ack
Well in time for inclusion in PHP 8.3 at least.
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On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 at 00:07, Larry Garfield wrote:
>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2022, at 7:20 AM, Dan Ackroyd wrote:
> > Hi Larry,
> >
> > Regarding the syntax, up until now PHP has only supported the letters
> > a-z and underscore in keywords.
> >
> > I realis
zation failures,
Good point.
I'll raise it again when there is another discussion about an
UnserializeException.
Although it would probably be safe to expose invalid data that was
meant to be turned into a DateTime object, it's not obvious that it
would be safe to increase the exposure
mfmt_get_error_code() etc., rather than
have to worry about exceptions.
Changing the procedural functions to use exceptions would be a bigger
and more controversial change than the one proposed in this RFC.
cheers
Dan
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> Can you expand a bit on how you think distinguishing "undefined" from
"null" would help?
First off, I would be perfectly happy if undefined array/object index
accesses went back to raising E_NOTICE. Undefined variables already resolve
to NULL so in that sense NULL is already the "undefined" prim
on : null` that's still way more concise than `$varExpression
?? null` that's baked into the language.
On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 7:53 AM Dan Liebner wrote:
> > No, code doesn't break. It now shows a warning instead of an error.
> There is no behavioural change.
> It
thout having
to rely on configuration settings.
> just fix your code.
Practically speaking, I'd much more likely stay on 7.4 or migrate to Node.
On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 5:52 PM Derick Rethans wrote:
> On 12 December 2022 22:20:27 GMT, Dan Liebner wrote:
>
> >It has been prop
First off, hello everyone, I'm Dan. I love PHP and I've been a PHP
developer for over 20 years.
The recent change to elevating "Undefined index" from E_NOTICE to E_WARNING
set forth and passed by https://wiki.php.net/rfc/engine_warnings to me
seems antithetical to what PHP h
le to see the data that you attempted to unserialize.
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Dan
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x27;getBadData' could make it easier to fix those issues.
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Dan
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being combined is probably
the best choice.
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the
OpenSSF (and it's backers) and how they differ from contributors to
open source projects.
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ed to Open Source for years have quite strong feeling about
events that have occurred, and manipulation by large companies.
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affecting end-users.
> This would just result in an uncaught Exception which should
> be very visible in your error tracking service.
My impression is that most web-servers running PHP don't have those.
For people who run most sites, the first they would know about it is
when end-users st
nion on the change. I personally think any
project that doesn't convert any unsilenced warning to an exception is
just asking for trouble.
cheers
Dan
Ack
* I wouldn't want to see a 'standard' library for PHP split across
80,000 repositories, but I think that the one (1) standa
;t know of an
environment where it can be tested.
cheers
Dan
Ack
* For those who get a mangled version, the "characters" there are 'a'
'b' 'c' 'smily-face' 'man + zerowidth joiner + woman + zerowidth
joiner + child'. The last is a chara
ay,
But in general, you'd really need to make a strong argument for why it
should be in core, not just why anyone would be against it.
cheers
Dan
Ack
trait FromArray
{
/**
* @param array $data
* @return static
* @throws \ReflectionException
*/
public static functi
why something that
sounds like it would be a leaky abstraction should be in core (and so
generating more support requests) rather than people using the already
existing userland package
(https://packagist.org/packages/webmozart/glob) which currently has
over 10million installs.
cheers
Dan
A
he next version of PHP by adding that to the options array, but
everyone who is unaware of the option gets the more sensible behaviour
by default.
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could be annoying to people who are
regularly contributing week-in, week-out.
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>
> $foo = $foo;
>
> Or create an empty function:
>
> function ensure_variables_stays_alive(mixed $variable)
> {
>/* function is intentionally blank */
> }
>
> and call that function with the variable you want to stay alive inside the
> closure.
But again, this is "n
how it could be better.
It'd be a huge piece of work, but a better way of handling errors
would be a significant improvement for PHP.
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it
captured." than trying to explain "yes, the variable is referenced
inside the closure, but it's not captured because you aren't reading
from it".
cheers
Dan
Ack
For this code, comment the var_dump in/out to affect the lifetime of the object.
class Res
ave sanely. Memory
itself is cheap.
Although not having that optimization might mean that some variables
last longer than they should, that is at least explainable*. Having
variables not last as long as they should (because of an optimization)
is harder to explain, and harder to explain how to work aro
setting. Which is a problem that keeps rearing it's head.
Maybe someone sponsoring some blue-sky research on how feasible a
module/package system could be, would make addressing problems similar
to the one here be easier to work on.
cheers
Dan
Ack
enum Suit: string {
case Hearts =
at have no specialised method:
if ($pdo instanceof PDOMysql) {
// What would be of utility here?
}
cheers
Dan
Ack
* How to value being consistent is an aesthetic choice that many other
programmers disagree with me on; "The fundamental guiding force to
bear in mind is whether someth
e should either
> implement quoteIdentifier only on PDOPostgres
I'll expose it as a method on the PDOPostgres class. Having a quote
identifier function on the PDO class itself that does the appropriate
thing for all of the databases will be for another RFC, so that is
also added to future
s, which is more "I'm not dealing with that here, talk about that
> later." If so, that could be clarified.
Yes, I've hopefully made the words clearer.
Other points answered in subsequent emails.
cheers
Dan
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Hi,
Following previous discussions, here is an RFC to have DB specific
classes for PDO.
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/pdo_driver_specific_subclasses
cheers
Dan
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ounced as under
discussion?
cheers
Dan
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iables that represent
services, but sometimes those things are needed.
When you are capturing objects that can have side effects, making that
capture be explicit is quite nice (imo). I think the different
emphasis on capturing scalar values or objects might come down to a
difference in style of
on't want implicit capture would be able tell their code
quality analysis tools to warn on any use of short closures (or
possibly better, warn when a variable has been captured). People who
do want implicit capture can use the short closures which always have
implicit capture.
cheers
Dan
Ack
cheap. Having different (though similar) RFCs
under the same URL makes is confusing when trying to understand what
happened to particular RFCs.
cheers
Dan
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ed at being added.
> [2014-09-17 14:55 UTC] benjamin dot morel at gmail dot com
> +1
> Definitely a show-stopper!
btw, I admire your patience.
cheers
Dan
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tionality, does anyone know of
any other functionality that is exposed by SQLite or Postgres that
isn't currently exposed through the magic PDO methods?
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On Sun, 29 May 2022 at 16:34, Dan Ackroyd wrote:
>
> *an incorrect name*
Apologies for writing your name incorrectly. That should of course
have been addressed to Juliette.
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Dan
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rare edge-cases where someone
has a callable that is only called in emergencies (like a disk running
out of space) and so might not have that happen for months. Having the
deprecation on is_callable would help those edge-cases a little.
cheers
Dan
Ack
* Is "syntax based callable" the right name? Better suggestions welcome.
** compared to some stuff I've seen/written.
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able, as that is
typically only done once per callable, but callable type checks are
done continuously.
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pplications out there aren't being constantly developed.
Instead they are in maintenance mode, where there isn't a programmer
dedicated to constantly work on it. There would be lots of function
calls to check, and some of them would need code to be modified to
maintain the existing behav
er than assuming people will agree with
that, would probably give the RFC the best chance of succeeding.
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Dan
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to either
stay apolitical or to have a strong executive team that can make
decisions on behalf of the project.
I do urge everyone to take effective action that they can personally
do themselves, but the suggestion is not likely to help, and is likely
to turn a shouting match very quickly.
cheers
D
eral, I think we should only add surprising and awkward apis
when there is a really strong reason for doing so, not because there
might be a problem. If it's left as unserializable for now, people
would have the opportunity for saying why it needs to be relaxed
later, aka "no is temporary
proposed to be added to PHP core, needs to
have the reasons why it's the right thing to do listed. If nothing
else, it will help to reject attributes in the future if they don't
have the same strong justifications.
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Dan
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To
maintained. Yeah shared hosts might have a DB
they can connect to, but those credentials should only be usuable from
the shared host to the DB.
cheers
Dan
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https://github.com/Danack/GuidelinesForOperatorOverloads/blob/main/guidelines.md)
- if anyone has horrorible examples they'd like to add, PR's are
welcome.
cheers
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e damage has been done.
But to repeat, I don't think the names of magic methods are a problem.
Documenting that 'the name refers to the operator sigil, not to what
the function does', avoids it being a problem to be solved.
cheers
Dan
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nd method overloading are really separate features.
> we cannot have the conditional type hints.
btw you can just say 'types'.
Unlike some lesser languages, in PHP parameter types are enforced at
run-time; they aren't hints. I believe all references to hints (in
relation to ty
ymbols are cool, and
you're reasoning about how the RFC should operate from decision.
I'm not sure I can make a reasonable argument against it that you
would find persuasive, but to me it's adding a non-trivial amount of
complexity, which tips the RFC from being acceptable, to not.
chee
t the operation actually means for the
object.
btw, I don't really care about this naming problem. My concern is that
it's being used as a reason for introducing a special new type
function, when it's really not a big enough problem to deserve making
the language have special new sy
a list of bad examples to the RFC, so
people can refer to how not to use it, rather than each programming
team having to make the same mistakes.
cheers
Dan
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ervice would need to call the operations dynamically
from user provided data.
I also have an aesthetic preference when writing tests to be explicit
as possible, rather than concise as possible e.g.
$foo->__add(5, OperandPosition::LeftSide);
$foo->__add(5, OperandPosition::RightSide);
ins
for Imagick from PHP 5.4 to
8.1, across lots of versions of ImagickMagick.
I'm finding managing function signatures in a PHP file, in standard
PHP format, is a lot nicer than maintaing that info in C files.
cheers
Dan
Ack
* Though, tbh, I wished I'd known about /** @generate-legacy-arg
On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 at 19:28, Dan Ackroyd wrote:
> > Is this intentional? If so, could someone explain the purpose of the
> > change?
>
> Probably to make the build process less flaky, by explicitly checking
> dependencies, so that there are fewer instances of "stuffs
Probably to make the build process less flaky, by explicitly checking
dependencies, so that there are fewer instances of "stuffs not
working.I guess I'll do a make clean and see if that helps".
cheers
Dan
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nger being updated,
Having companies sponsor open source projects makes it less likely
they will be abandoned.
cheers
Dan
Ack
* https://www.theregister.com/2021/04/26/report_developers_slashdata/
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so often try to
guilt maintainers into doing work for free. If anyone would like me to
help explain to users "your company needs to start sponsoring this
project before this project will acknowledge this issue", in any of
their projects repos, please ping me on twitter
https://twitter.com/MrDanack
cheers
Dan
Ack
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