Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] Namespaces in Core

2017-06-10 Thread Dan Ackroyd
Hi 'Fleshgrinder', I object to this RFC on principle. RFC's are supposed to be opionated. They are supposed to present an argument for why we should do something, and why doing that is a good idea. This RFC does not do that; it presents a series of questions to vote on, without any clear present

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] [VOTE] Arrays starting with a negative index

2017-06-10 Thread Christoph M. Becker
On 10.06.2017 at 21:29, Rowan Collins wrote: > On 8 June 2017 08:52:41 BST, "François Laupretre" wrote: >> It would be great, IMO, to open a 'Approved for 8.0' section >> on >> the RFC page now, and your RFC could proudly be the 1st one to enter >> it. > > I definitely agree with this, as I've

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] Class Naming

2017-06-10 Thread Dan Ackroyd
On 10 June 2017 at 21:57, Fleshgrinder wrote: > > This RFC is only "When collaborating with others – especially when designers and programmers are part of the mix – watch out for these dirty four letter words: Need Must Can’t Easy Just Only Fast" https://signalvnoise.com/posts/439-four-letter-wor

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] Namespaces in Core

2017-06-10 Thread Fleshgrinder
On 6/10/2017 11:11 PM, Levi Morrison wrote: > You put out namespaces for them which implies you think we might do that. > Erm ... not really ... I am sorry if my examples lead to a confusion on your side. Let's try this the other way around. What are *other extensions* for you? -- Richard "Fle

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] Namespaces in Core

2017-06-10 Thread Levi Morrison
On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 1:34 PM, Fleshgrinder wrote: > On 6/10/2017 9:24 PM, Levi Morrison wrote: >> If we were starting from scratch maybe we'd do as you are proposing. >> However, there is absolutely zero value in these specific things being >> namespaced *anywhere*: >> >> - Arrays >> - Refl

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] Class Naming

2017-06-10 Thread Fleshgrinder
On 6/10/2017 10:54 PM, Niklas Keller wrote: > The minimum discussion period is two weeks. > > Regards, Niklas Not according to our rules, no: > There'd be a minimum of 2 weeks between when an RFC that touches the > language is brought up on this list and when it's voted on is > required. Other

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] Class Naming

2017-06-10 Thread Niklas Keller
2017-06-10 20:46 GMT+02:00 Fleshgrinder : > On 6/3/2017 2:03 PM, Fleshgrinder wrote: > > As previously announced, I would like to set an end to these discussions > > in the community: > > > > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/class-naming > > > > I am planning to put this to vote tomorrow, unless somebody

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] Namespaces in Core

2017-06-10 Thread Fleshgrinder
On 6/10/2017 9:24 PM, Levi Morrison wrote: > If we were starting from scratch maybe we'd do as you are proposing. > However, there is absolutely zero value in these specific things being > namespaced *anywhere*: > > - Arrays > - Reflection > - Strings > - IO > > We already have establishe

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] [VOTE] Arrays starting with a negative index

2017-06-10 Thread Rowan Collins
On 8 June 2017 08:52:41 BST, "François Laupretre" wrote: > It would be great, IMO, to open a 'Approved for 8.0' section >on >the RFC page now, and your RFC could proudly be the 1st one to enter >it. I definitely agree with this, as I've argued before for a more timeline based approach to major

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] Namespaces in Core

2017-06-10 Thread Levi Morrison
On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Fleshgrinder wrote: > On 6/10/2017 8:54 PM, Levi Morrison wrote: >> I gave this feedback before but I'll repeat it. I support namespaces >> in the core, with the `PHP` namespace (with whatever capitalization we >> decide) to be reserved *solely* for things related

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] Namespaces in Core

2017-06-10 Thread Fleshgrinder
On 6/10/2017 8:54 PM, Levi Morrison wrote: > I gave this feedback before but I'll repeat it. I support namespaces > in the core, with the `PHP` namespace (with whatever capitalization we > decide) to be reserved *solely* for things related to the language > itself such as lexer, parser, etc. > > I

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] Namespaces in Core

2017-06-10 Thread Levi Morrison
On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Fleshgrinder wrote: > On 6/3/2017 6:40 PM, Fleshgrinder wrote: >> Next promised RFC (and the last one for this weekend): >> >> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/namespaces-in-core >> >> I am unsure about whether we should avoid the usage of abbreviations for >> things like

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] Class Naming

2017-06-10 Thread Fleshgrinder
On 6/3/2017 2:03 PM, Fleshgrinder wrote: > As previously announced, I would like to set an end to these discussions > in the community: > > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/class-naming > I am planning to put this to vote tomorrow, unless somebody has serious concerns and raises them here. The minimum d

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] Namespaces in Core

2017-06-10 Thread Fleshgrinder
On 6/3/2017 6:40 PM, Fleshgrinder wrote: > Next promised RFC (and the last one for this weekend): > > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/namespaces-in-core > > I am unsure about whether we should avoid the usage of abbreviations for > things like language (lang), standard (std), and utility (util). I think

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC]Discuss] Syntax for Arrow Functions

2017-06-10 Thread Niklas Keller
2017-06-10 11:09 GMT+02:00 Stephen Reay : > > > On 10 Jun 2017, at 15:19, Björn Larsson > wrote: > > > > Den 2017-06-09 kl. 22:00, skrev Niklas Keller: > >> 2017-06-09 15:44 GMT+02:00 Sara Golemon : > >> > >>> On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Björn Larsson < > bjorn.x.lars...@telia.com> > >>> wrot

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC]Discuss] Syntax for Arrow Functions

2017-06-10 Thread Stephen Reay
> On 10 Jun 2017, at 15:19, Björn Larsson wrote: > > Den 2017-06-09 kl. 22:00, skrev Niklas Keller: >> 2017-06-09 15:44 GMT+02:00 Sara Golemon : >> >>> On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Björn Larsson >>> wrote: If I take the liberty in using the example above on our option list: 1. $so

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC]Discuss] Syntax for Arrow Functions

2017-06-10 Thread Björn Larsson
Den 2017-06-09 kl. 22:00, skrev Niklas Keller: 2017-06-09 15:44 GMT+02:00 Sara Golemon : On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Björn Larsson wrote: If I take the liberty in using the example above on our option list: 1. $someDict->map(fn($v) => $v * 2)->filter(fn($v) => $v % 3); 2. $someDict->map(f

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC]Discuss] Syntax for Arrow Functions

2017-06-10 Thread Björn Larsson
Den 2017-06-09 kl. 15:44, skrev Sara Golemon: On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Björn Larsson wrote: If I take the liberty in using the example above on our option list: 1. $someDict->map(fn($v) => $v * 2)->filter(fn($v) => $v % 3); 2. $someDict->map(function($v) => $v * 2)->filter(function($v) =