Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

2013/2/21 Johannes Schlüter > On Thu, 2013-02-21 at 19:13 +0100, Pascal Chevrel wrote: > > > > I am specifically thinking of Bugzilla which is already used by many > > open source projects. It has a lot more features than your current > > bug > > tracking system, it scales for large projects and

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP causing high number of NFS getattr operations?

On 02/21/2013 04:41 PM, Terry Ellison wrote: > On 21/02/13 23:38, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: >> On 02/21/2013 03:15 PM, Brendon Colby wrote: >> >>> NFS is so common for sharing files that saying "Wow, people are still >>> serving web files over NFS?" is like saying "Wow, people are still >>> using the l

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP causing high number of NFS getattr operations?

On 21/02/13 23:38, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: On 02/21/2013 03:15 PM, Brendon Colby wrote: NFS is so common for sharing files that saying "Wow, people are still serving web files over NFS?" is like saying "Wow, people are still using the ls command to list directory contents on Linux?" I think NFS i

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP causing high number of NFS getattr operations?

Quoting dan...@zoltak.com: Great points Brendon! We have a similar architectural to your setup running NetApp filers, Apache/PHP web servers performing shared hosting for over 40,000+ websites. We pull over 35k IOPS and 80% are from PHP stats and getattr's. Someone earlier mentioned that

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP causing high number of NFS getattr operations?

Quoting Brendon Colby : We've invested a great deal of money in a high performance shared storage system, so of course we want to use this system for absolutely everything we can within reason, including sharing 1500+ PHP files to our many web servers. I don't think most systems administrators w

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP causing high number of NFS getattr operations?

On 02/21/2013 03:15 PM, Brendon Colby wrote: > NFS is so common for sharing files that saying "Wow, people are still > serving web files over NFS?" is like saying "Wow, people are still > using the ls command to list directory contents on Linux?" I think NFS > is still very widely used, even for s

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

Hi! > F.e., how long have we been battled for annotations? With all > respects, it is about being blind and stubborn to say that PHP should > not have annotations. But due to some "I'm happy with what we have It is about being blind and stubborn to hold opinion different than yours. And *this* no

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP causing high number of NFS getattr operations?

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > Wow, people are still serving web files over NFS? Sounds painful. On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > So they are serving up all their PHP over NFS for some reason. I've been thinking about this and wanted to make a

Re: [PHP-DEV] APC 3.1.14 disappeared from PECL

Ferenc Kovacs in php.internals (Mon, 4 Feb 2013 09:47:11 +0100): >It was done by Rasmus on purpose, as there were memory issues with this >release what we couldn't track down/fix yet. Should not these be removed or replaced as well? http://windows.php.net/downloads/pecl/snaps/apc/3.1.14-dev/ And

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

Hello List, how about sort of Tick-Tock development model? Tick = optimize/bugfix Tock = shiny new features e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Tick-Tock cryptocompress -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

On 02/21/2013 01:04 PM, Johannes Schlüter wrote: > On Thu, 2013-02-21 at 17:06 +0100, Marco Pivetta wrote: >> On 21 February 2013 17:04, Johannes Schlüter wrote: >> >>> The quoted business decision was "We want something stable and fast", an >>> emphasis of fixing bugs over adding new ones. This s

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

On Thu, 2013-02-21 at 17:06 +0100, Marco Pivetta wrote: > On 21 February 2013 17:04, Johannes Schlüter wrote: > > > The quoted business decision was "We want something stable and fast", an > > emphasis of fixing bugs over adding new ones. This sounds sane to me. > Doesn't exclude new features th

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 6 : a new API ?

On Feb 20, 2013, at 11:19 , Sebastian Krebs wrote: > 2013/2/20 Klaus Ufo > >> Hi there ! >> >> We all know that the current PHP API has flaws. Maybe we could use >> namespaces to build a new coherent PHP API ? Like : >> >> - \arr >> - \num >> - \str >> >> and so on. Advantages : >> >> - no

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

Arvids Godjuks wrote: In principle, as a user-land developer, I agree with the motion. It's too much fancy new shiny stuff lately and no actual improvement on the old stuff that really needs fixing or updating/rewriting (PDO anyone? Years behind every db driver extension there is in PHP, and as f

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP User Survey

On 02/21/2013 03:02 AM, Florian Anderiasch wrote: On 02/21/2013 08:14 AM, Pierre Joye wrote: I do not have a single doubt. Why? Surveys are one of many ways to get feedback. They have no contracting values but give us some numbers about one rfc or another. That may help us to focus on one fea

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

On Thu, 2013-02-21 at 19:13 +0100, Pascal Chevrel wrote: > > I am specifically thinking of Bugzilla which is already used by many > open source projects. It has a lot more features than your current > bug > tracking system, it scales for large projects and it has a few > Mozilla > employees wor

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Pascal Chevrel wrote: > I am specifically thinking of Bugzilla which is already used by many open > source projects. It has a lot more features than your current bug tracking > system, it scales for large projects and it has a few Mozilla employees > working full

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

Le 21/02/2013 18:56, Ferenc Kovacs a écrit : it is, and it is a chicken and egg problem: even though that the usual "my C-fu is weak" argument doesn't apply there, we still lack contributors, and the archaic nature of the current codebase doesn't really helps bringing in new people. even if a ne

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

replying inline I think it would be helpful to have something like a roadmap with various > features and changes both in regards to language and features as well > as performance. > We have discussed before and the problem is the nature of the project: it is an open source project where the cont

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

On 2013-02-21, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > Personally I would love to see more RFCs focusing on performance and > less on syntax changes. Of course, a syntax change RFC, and even the > initial (often shaky) implementation of a syntax-related change is much > much easier to whip up than the deep analys

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

On 21.02.2013, at 20:08, Levi Morrison wrote: >> Personally I would love to see more RFCs focusing on performance and >> less on syntax changes. > > Some recent tests I performed indicate that JavaScript and Dart are > both significantly faster than PHP when working with just arrays and > numbe

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

Hello, On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 5:30 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > In the slice of the "community" where I spend most of my time, > medium-to-large companies using PHP with their own custom code on > hundreds to thousands or even 10's of thousands of servers, neither > annotations nor getter/setter

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

> Personally I would love to see more RFCs focusing on performance and > less on syntax changes. Some recent tests I performed indicate that JavaScript and Dart are both significantly faster than PHP when working with just arrays and numbers. If anyone is interested I can provide the test code for

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

On 21 February 2013 17:04, Johannes Schlüter wrote: > The quoted business decision was "We want something stable and fast", an > emphasis of fixing bugs over adding new ones. This sounds sane to me. > > johannes > > > Doesn't exclude new features then: so what is this all about? Marco Pivetta h

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

On Thu, 2013-02-21 at 16:54 +0100, Marco Pivetta wrote: > No hard feelings, but it would be awesome if that part of the "community" > (the one that basically avoids social coding as far as I can see, not to be > taken as a sin, but still "meh") didn't just try to hold back PHP because > of business

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

On 21 February 2013 16:30, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > In the slice of the "community" where I spend most of my time > No hard feelings, but it would be awesome if that part of the "community" (the one that basically avoids social coding as far as I can see, not to be taken as a sin, but still "meh"

[PHP-DEV] Re: VCS Account Request: gabrielwu84

VCS Account Approved: gabrielwu84 approved by rasmus \o/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

Hello, didn't read the whole thread, just a few messages at the start. But because I'm replying to the starting message, it's not relevant :) In principle, as a user-land developer, I agree with the motion. It's too much fancy new shiny stuff lately and no actual improvement on the old stuff that

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Short syntax for anonymous functions

2013/2/21 Levi Morrison > On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 4:17 AM, David Muir wrote: > > > > On 21/02/2013, at 6:12 AM, Lazare Inepologlou > wrote: > > > >> 2013/2/20 Sanford Whiteman < > swhitemanlistens-softw...@cypressintegrated.com> > >> > It still looks like some random characters bashed toge

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

In the slice of the "community" where I spend most of my time, medium-to-large companies using PHP with their own custom code on hundreds to thousands or even 10's of thousands of servers, neither annotations nor getter/setter are anywhere on their wishlist radar. What they most desire is performan

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Short syntax for anonymous functions

On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 4:17 AM, David Muir wrote: > > On 21/02/2013, at 6:12 AM, Lazare Inepologlou wrote: > >> 2013/2/20 Sanford Whiteman >> It still looks like some random characters bashed together by a monkey with a keyboard. >>> >>> +1, I am a fiend for ternary expressions and cr

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

On Feb 21, 2013, at 1:56 AM, Zeev Suraski wrote: > There used to be a language that was the Queen of the Web. It was full of > clever syntax. It prided itself on having a variety of expressive ways of > doing the same thing. You're on the mailing list of the language that > dethroned it. Thi

RE: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

> -Original Message- > From: Pierre Joye [mailto:pierre@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 4:08 PM > To: Zeev Suraski > Cc: Florin Razvan Patan; Lars Strojny; Derick Rethans; PHP Developers Mailing > List > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd) > > hi,

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] com php-src: Fixed external entity loading: ext/libxml/libxml.c ext/libxml/php_libxml.h ext/soap/php_xml.c

On Thu, 2013-02-21 at 14:37 +0100, Remi Collet wrote: > It seems ZTS bulid is broken Fixed in fcd4b53 (and merge commits) johannes -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

hi, On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Zeev Suraski wrote: > That's not adaptation in my book. That's addition. It's not the technology > landscape that changed that now you need annotations; It's that some people > consider this feature cool and useful, and want to import it into PHP > althoug

RE: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

> -Original Message- > From: Florin Razvan Patan [mailto:florinpa...@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 3:15 PM > To: Zeev Suraski > Cc: Lars Strojny; Derick Rethans; PHP Developers Mailing List > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd) > > On Thu, Feb 21, 2

[PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-CVS] com php-src: Fixed external entity loading: ext/libxml/libxml.c ext/libxml/php_libxml.h ext/soap/php_xml.c

It seems ZTS bulid is broken /builddir/build/BUILD/php5.5-201302211230/ext/soap/php_xml.c: In function 'soap_xmlParseFile': /builddir/build/BUILD/php5.5-201302211230/ext/soap/php_xml.c:103:3: error: too few arguments to function 'php_libxml_disable_entity_loader' In file included from /builddir/bu

RE: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

> > People who think differently from you are not necessarily blind of > > stubborn. I honestly think that those comments were completely out of > > line in several different ways. > > It is not my opinion but a simple fact. That comment would have been funny if it wasn't sad. I'll leave it at t

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

Hello, This might sound as a rant but I assure you it's not. It's just how I see the things from my perspective and that of my colleagues/employer. On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Zeev Suraski wrote: > What you're bringing up is not at all about adapting. Adapting is > something we do at the

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

Pierre Joye wrote: >Regarding 'voting with feet', it's an idiom, look it up. I know, still do not think it fits as comment either here. I read this as simply "People are not leaving PHP in droves simply because it does not have xxx" - actually the opposite, but that growth in use is not into

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

Zeev, On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Zeev Suraski wrote: > Pierre, > > People who think differently from you are not necessarily blind of > stubborn. I honestly think that those comments were completely out of > line in several different ways. It is not my opinion but a simple fact. Yes, you

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Derick Rethans wrote: > Once you're done thinking, decide for yourself. Does it make sense to be > discussing new language level features every other week? Or should we, > perhaps, > invest more in other fronts, which would be beneficial for a far bigger > audie

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

Here is a counterpoint to that expressed by Lars. Many if not most shared hosting providers don't offer PHP 5.4 yet. Ditto many enterprises have yet to adopt it. The main reason? I think its that old Backwards Compatibility issue that has been discussed heavily on this DL. When major apps

RE: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

Pierre, People who think differently from you are not necessarily blind of stubborn. I honestly think that those comments were completely out of line in several different ways. Regarding 'voting with feet', it's an idiom, look it up. Zeev > -Original Message- > From: Pierre Joye [mail

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Short syntax for anonymous functions

On 21/02/2013, at 6:12 AM, Lazare Inepologlou wrote: > 2013/2/20 Sanford Whiteman > >>> It still looks like some random characters bashed together by a monkey >>> with a keyboard. >> >> +1, I am a fiend for ternary expressions and crazy one-liners, but >> this makes me want to go back and unr

Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP User Survey

On 02/21/2013 08:14 AM, Pierre Joye wrote: > I do not have a single doubt. Why? Surveys are one of many ways to get > feedback. They have no contracting values but give us some numbers about > one rfc or another. That may help us to focus on one feature instead of > another if we see a large numbe

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

Zeev Suraski wrote: There used to be a language that was the Queen of the Web. It was full of clever syntax. It prided itself on having a variety of expressive ways of doing the same thing. You're on the mailing list of the language that dethroned it. And the majority of END USERS are more tha

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

hi Zeev, On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Zeev Suraski wrote: > What you're bringing up is not at all about adapting. Adapting is > something we do at the extensions, frameworks and tools levels. I'm happy > to say PHP's ecosystem here is very healthy, in my opinion. Yes, most of the time. Bu

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pull request for array_filter() improvement

On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 5:31 PM, Leigh wrote: > > On 21 February 2013 07:08, Tjerk Anne Meesters wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I found myself wanting a feature of array_filter() with which I can >> perform >> filtering based on the array key instead of the value. >> >> > With the operative word here bei

RE: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

What you're bringing up is not at all about adapting. Adapting is something we do at the extensions, frameworks and tools levels. I'm happy to say PHP's ecosystem here is very healthy, in my opinion. Adapting is not what we're dealing with here. We're talking about Adding. By adding more and m

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

hi, On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Eloy Bote Falcon wrote: > Agree. There are only a few core devs working daily in the PHP > internals. I would say please give the Language (and devs) a rest > motion, because there are a lot of bugs and work to be done but I'm > afraid that is more easy/funn

Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd)

2013/2/20 Derick Rethans : > Looks like it is time to forward this email from 2006 again: > > -- Forwarded message -- > Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:57:32 +0200 > From: Zeev Suraski > To: internals@lists.php.net > Subject: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion > > I'd like to rais

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pull request for array_filter() improvement

On 21 February 2013 07:08, Tjerk Anne Meesters wrote: > Hi, > > I found myself wanting a feature of array_filter() with which I can perform > filtering based on the array key instead of the value. > > With the operative word here being *instead*, keeping in line with the numerous other array func

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] send/recvmsg() wrappers in ext/socket

Em 2013-02-21 4:06, Ferenc Kovacs escreveu: On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Gustavo Lopes wrote: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/**sendrecvmsg The module ext/sockets, a wrapper around the sockets API, does not include support to recvmsg() and sendmsg(). This

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pull request for array_filter() improvement

Hi Sebastian, I would be fine with that too, but this might break existing code that uses internal functions which behave differently when a second argument is passed. One might also make the argument that creating an additional ZVAL that's never used in a callback is a waste of cpu. I'm not sur

Re: [PHP-DEV] Pull request for array_filter() improvement

2013/2/21 Tjerk Anne Meesters > Hi, > > I found myself wanting a feature of array_filter() with which I can perform > filtering based on the array key instead of the value. > > To scratch this itch, I decided to dive into C again and just add the > feature. My proposal is to add a third argument