Pierre, People who think differently from you are not necessarily blind of stubborn. I honestly think that those comments were completely out of line in several different ways.
Regarding 'voting with feet', it's an idiom, look it up. Zeev > -----Original Message----- > From: Pierre Joye [mailto:pierre....@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 12:09 PM > To: Zeev Suraski > Cc: Lars Strojny; Derick Rethans; PHP Developers Mailing List > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd) > > hi Zeev, > > On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Zeev Suraski <z...@zend.com> wrote: > > What you're bringing up is not at all about adapting. Adapting is > > something we do at the extensions, frameworks and tools levels. I'm > > happy to say PHP's ecosystem here is very healthy, in my opinion. > > Yes, most of the time. But the language needs evolution, must have evolution. > > F.e., how long have we been battled for annotations? With all respects, it is > about being blind and stubborn to say that PHP should not have annotations. > But due to some "I'm happy with what we have now" way of doing things, we > are very unlikely to have them any time soon, even if any major projects out > there are waiting for it, for years. Even the ZendFramework leads want them > now (changed their mind since the last attempt). > > This is not about borking the language with useless features. This is not about > being on the cutting edge. this is about catching up with the competition. > > > Adapting is not what we're dealing with here. We're talking about Adding. > > Adding? Surely a matter of wording. I'd to say evolve and catch up. > > > By adding more and more, we're making the language more and more > > complex, less and less accessible to both new and existing developers, > > thereby hurting its #1 appeal - simplicity. > > I heard that in php 4 > 5 and OO, and all we rejected back then have been > introduced since then. Not sure what is the best way, trying to stop with all four > feet (to take your analogy) any kind of additions/evolution/catching up and then > still doing it but years later, or trying to get a bit more open minded and listen to > our communities. > > > As we thrust forward towards 5.5, > > more than half of the community is still on 5.2. 5.4 is virtually > > nonexistent in terms of real world usage, and yet we thrust forward to > > 5.5, as if the community at large cares about all these new features. > > The community is voting with its feet, and that is probably the best > > survey we're ever going to get. > > Excuse me? Voting with its feet? Dare to explain the underlying meaning of this > comment? > > > > I'm not saying we shouldn't add new features. But I am saying that we > > shouldn't add many of them. The very few we should add - should have > > exceptional 'return on investment'. To be clear, the investment isn't > > just the effort to develop or even maintain the implementation - > > that's not even the main point. It's the increased complexity that > > each and every new language construct brings with it, whether we like it or > not. > > Yes, totally agree here. Annotation and usable getter/setter syntax have a huge > ROI. Discuss with any application or framework developers/users will bring you > to the same conclusion. > > > There used to be a language that was the Queen of the Web. It was > > full of clever syntax. It prided itself on having a variety of > > expressive ways of doing the same thing. You're on the mailing list > > of the language that dethroned it. > > You are living in the past glory. We are not willing to make PHP more complex or > kill it. We are willing to make compromises between the 2000s simplicity and the > needs of modern application developments. > These compromises are not only required but possible. > > > Cheers, > -- > Pierre > > @pierrejoye -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
