Re: Question on hyperlinks in groff

Hi Chems, When reading the s.tmac file, specifically the description for the .[ > macro, it mentions a macro called .#, but I can't find its definition > anywhere. > Both the .[ and .# macros belong to the Mono package . This is a project of mine (i.e., not part o

Re: traveling for a few days

On macOS, Groff builds and installs perfectly from a fresh checkout (currently using f55d8f41). However, running `make check` produced 6 failing tests: FAIL: src/devices/grotty/tests/basic_latin_glyphs_map_correctly.sh > XFAIL: src/roff/groff/tests/string_case_xform_unicode_escape.sh > XFAIL src/

Re: traveling for a few days

un, 24 Apr 2022 at 20:15, Bertrand Garrigues < bertrand.garrig...@laposte.net> wrote: > Hi John, > > On Sun, Apr 24 2022 at 04:39:57 AM, John Gardner > wrote: > > On macOS, Groff builds and installs perfectly from a fresh checkout > (currently using > > f55d8f41).

Re: .TQ to replace .PD 0

Hi Ralph, > Support of modern font technologies and of course languages which aren't left-to-right. Agreed. But for everything else you've mentioned: it's just a matter of writing another PDF postprocessor (or some other adapter for a particular format). Postprocessors are where the real beauty o

Re: A Modern Typesetting Language. (Was: .TQ to replace .PD 0)

Hi Ralph, Or at best, gives it through some clunky ‘treat it as a string’ mechanism. > How is that clunky? Text is text. It's opaque, honest, and universal. The foundation of the Unix Philosophy… you know this as well as I do. ;-) One could look at shoehorning evermore complexity through to the

Re: groff 1.23.0.rc2 readiness

Hi Branden, I'm running out of things I can think of to do before RC2. > Please consider #62494 ASAP. Otherwise, it's going to piss a lot of users off. Regards, — J On Thu, 26 May 2022 at 13:56, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: >

Re: groff 1.23.0.rc2 readiness

of Groff and will file bug reports accordingly. If you still decide to go ahead: Don't say I didn't warn you. On Fri, 27 May 2022 at 01:23, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John, > > At 2022-05-27T00:38:31+1000, John Gardner wrote: > > Pleas

Re: groff 1.23.0.rc2 readiness

ce-independent output produced by GNU > troff" > I've given in and taken to calling it "ditroff" informally, even though I know damn well that it's a misappropriation. > . > On Sat, 28 May 2022 at 08:51, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Re: Setting up repository for user macrosets

> > I was recently thinking of creating one of those "awesome lists" for *roff > resources. I have quite a few tagged bookmarks to go through.. Naming it awesome-roff and tagging it with the awesome-list or awesome topic

Re: groff man(7) `B` macro behavior with `\c`, and input traps

> > And to allude to an another conversation we are currently having, > including those that contain nothing but "\&", but *not* those that are > completely empty, which would make you think that "\&" is a "zero-width > non-breaking space" or a "zero-width non-printing character" rather than > mere

Re: Zero Width Space

> > What about "input escape" Copy+pasta from my earlier post to a concurrent discussion in another thread: s/input escape/control suppressor/gi s/input escape/command suppressor/gi (This discussion appears to have been split betw

Re: [TUHS, groff] 1981 edition of AT&T Nroff/Troff User's Manual

> > Since PDF didn't exist in 1981, the document is either a scan or the > result of a recent *roff run on ancient source. > It's most definitely a scan. Magnifying the pages reveals dust, surface details (grain and creases), and shadow falloff around the holes and edges. Each page is also titled

Re: Warn on semantic newlines

> > AI is a bane of formatting. It's getting better. Though I still prefer smart practices and dumb programs, ins

Is it possible to detect `grotty -i` at runtime?

I'm looking for a way to harden my .UL (underline) macro against grotty(1) v1.23's new -i switch, which causes italicised text to be rendered with actual italics (in TTYs that support SGR 3, at least)

Re: Is it possible to detect `grotty -i` at runtime?

groff(1) open at the same time. groffy(1), if you will. Apologies for the retarded e-mail. This hasn't been one of my finer moments. — J On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 at 11:09, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John, > > At 2022-07-22T07:29:48+1000, John

Re: One Page Dungeon Layout in groff?

This is what pic(1) is for: # Long version $ pic < dungeon.roff | troff -Tpdf | gropdf > map.pdf # Concise version (recommended) $ groff -p -Tpdf dungeon.roff > map.pdf If you're new to pic(1), there's a browser-friendly (albeit limited) reim

Re: groff 1.23.0.rc2 readiness

> > As you are the most active developer, would you consider taking over the > maintainership of groff? > Please, please, *please* let that be a "yes"… On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 at 07:14, Bertrand Garrigues via wrote: > Hi Branden, > > On Wed, May 25 2022 at 10:56:37 PM, "G. Branden Robinson" < > g.b

Re: [groff] 15/39: [grog]: Drop relic code and comments.

> > Perl 5.6.1 is incredibly old (April 2001). I cannot find any evidence of > any current distribution supporting it. IIRC, declaring a program version is recommended practice, as future versions of Perl may have different defaults w.r.t opt-in behaviours like `use warnings` and `use strict`. T

Re: Why isn't the device resolution exposed to the formatter?

> an *embolus* in my brain $ echo "embolus" >> ~/Words-that-Branden-taught-me.txt $ cat $_ inimical, inimicable: harmful; hostile sesquipedalian: having too many syllables irascible: easily pissed at shitty UX indefatigable: incapable of tiring out internecine: mutually destructive apodictic: inco

Re: Dynamic Paperlength for PS or PDF device

> > so here is my solution: > the last line of my groff script is: > ".tm \\n[nl]" > This shows me the page length in groff units. > For convenience I put it in a footer macro. Does this help…? .de *pagesize* \" $1 = width, $2 = height \\!x X papersize=\\$1,\\$2 .ll \\$2u-\\n(.o .pl \\$1 .. . .\

Re: words (and commands) that I learnt because of Branden (was: preferred /proc//xxx style?)

> > Your emails are the reason I know and often use dict(1). Lol. Branden's e-mails are the reason I consult the Oxford English dictionary far more often than I'm comfortable admitting. Either I'm learning obscure words I know I'll never remember when I need them,[1] <#snarky-footnote-1> or I'm

Re: words (and commands) that I learnt because of Branden

> > Actually, "horde" and "hoard" are homophones FFS, I keep getting those spellings mixed up. Thank you. :D On Sat, 10 Dec 2022 at 21:29, Robert Marks wrote: > Actually, "horde" and "hoard" are homophones, but one is a noun and the > other a verb: > "I use to horde definitions" > > Robert Mar

Re: Dynamic Paperlength for PS or PDF device

> > May as well be precise with 21c and 29.7c? Shit, did I really give A4 in Freedom Units™? My bad. I'm pinning this on sheet sleep deprivation and football fever. Staying up to 2:00am AEDT to watch the World Cup, then another at 6:00am—several times a week—has me running on fumes. I have 4.5 h

Re: Online Dictionaries. (Was: words (and commands) that I learnt...)

> > Wiktionary […] isn't too hard to edit once you've made one or two changes. > I know , don't worry. ;-) Wiktionary often gives translations, is multi-lingual, though they quite > rightly put English first :-), and isn't too hard to edit once you

Re: Inline TTY Pixel Rendering. (Was: groff 1.23.0.rc2 status report)

> > Sounds like it's up John Gardner's alley. :-) Actually, I think displaying multimedia within a character-based display is the second-wankiest thing people have managed to do with their terminal ( Browsh being the first). My own prejudices aside, this would be easy to

Re: .ab oddity

> > Something I recommend to all serious Unix users is to put the exit status > in the shell prompt. Alternatively, you can indicate a non-zero exit status by displaying a prompt symbol in a different colour than usual. This might be preferable for folks who prefer fixed-width and/or minimalist p

Re: groff 1.23.0.rc2 available for testing

> > The an (man) macro package can now produce clickable hyperlinks within > terminal emulators It might be worth clarifying for macOS users that the hyperlinks use a protocol incompatible with Apple's: “*man:printf(3)*” is used instead of “ *x-man-page://3/printf*” (the latter scheme is ancient

Re: macOS Terminal man page URL format

> > And since it's specific to the macOS Terminal application It's indicative of a much larger issue — there's no formal, standardised scheme for man page URLs. I encountered many variants

Re: macOS Terminal man page URL format

e… On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 at 05:36, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John, > > At 2023-02-06T18:53:10+1100, John Gardner wrote: > > While I *strongly* advocate for the man:name(section) syntax (because > > it essentially dates right back to th

Re: macOS Terminal man page URL format

y on macOS… On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 at 06:55, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John, > > At 2023-02-07T06:26:22+1100, John Gardner wrote: > > Then how about a callback? It could be called with the relevant > > parameters, and authors can use plain

Re: macOS Terminal man page URL format

Ls). It's theoretically possible to register a different app, although the procedure appears complicated (and I've yet to read up on it myself: it's on my to-do list under *"Weaponise lsappinfo(8)"*). On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 at 08:03, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.c

Re: "make check" failing on macOS (was: macOS Terminal man page URL format)

@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John, > > At 2023-02-11T10:19:08+1100, John Gardner wrote: > > Yes, it builds successfully now (macOS 12.6.3). I ran `make install` > > and the installed Groff seems to be working perfectly. > > Excellent! > > > However, when I ran `make ch

Re: macOS Terminal man page URL format

anual foo(1) 1010 groff test suite 2022-06-07 foo(1) checking that SB macro uses correct input trap 'it' ...FAILED foo(1) General Commands Manual foo(1) B10R10 groff test suite 2022-06-07 foo(1) — John On Tue, 14 Feb 2023 at 13:59, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com

Re: macOS Terminal man page URL format

e running the tests, which is How I'd Do It™. On Thu, 16 Feb 2023 at 15:30, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John, > > At 2023-02-16T15:09:06+1100, John Gardner wrote: > > Many thanks. All but one of the tests are passing now, which is the

Re: macOS Terminal man page URL format

which is why I suggested they be *un*set before running the tests. You may have misread what I wrote… ;-) — J On Thu, 16 Feb 2023 at 15:44, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > At 2023-02-16T15:34:57+1100, John Gardner wrote: > > > ...wait. Did you configure yo

Re: A version of fmt for troff files

> > https://en.roquesor.com/Downloads/fmtroff.c > Missed opportunity to call it "roffmt". ;-) Anyway, I fed the program a macro package with the -n switch passed, and it... basically mangled the entire file. I take it that fmtroff is only designed to format prose, rather than Roff code (macros, e

Re: rc3: groff man pages truncated by mandoc(1)

Hi Branden, > If I could do something like the following: > > .if \n[.mandoc] .als MR IR > To determine if mandoc(1) is being used to format the current page, use .if \n(.f=0 This is what Mono.tmac uses

Re: groff 1.23.0.rc3 available for testing

ortlog --summary --email 1.22.4..1.23.0.rc3 > 14 Bertrand Garrigues > 14 Bjarni Ingi Gislason > 6 Colin Watson > 1 Cynthia A. E. Livingston > 1 Damian McGuckin > 30 Dave Kemper > 28 Deri James > 2 Dorai Sitaram > 1 Ed

[Optional] versus parameters

What's the recommended convention for marking up *required* arguments? Square brackets indicate optional arguments more often than not, and something like this is ambiguous to readers: *upgrade* | *update* *package* This could be interpreted in two different ways (expressed using BNF): := ("upg

Re: [Optional] versus parameters

; Hi John, > > I think I can speak to this. > > At 2023-02-22T16:24:33+1100, John Gardner wrote: > > What's the recommended convention for marking up *required* arguments? > > Square brackets indicate optional arguments more often than not, and > > something like

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

Hi Branden, > I know I will be mightily tempted to encourage others to adopt the > practice, in large part because "device-independent [gt]roff] output" is > far too long to type or speak repeatedly. I've always just called it "ditroff" (*"device-independent troff [output]"*), with *.dit and *.

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

> > Yes. Though it contains device-dependent troff output. :-) > Aye, but most folks would find that less confusing than a format named after a fish … ;-) > The ‘dit’ suffix is probably what I've seen the most. > Same, although I personally prefer to use

Re: A new ignoramus question about user-installed fonts

Hi Oliver, > message by GhostScript: Can't embed the complete font DFSongStd as it is > too large, embedding a subset > PostScript provides a dedicated resource-type for exactly this: a CID-keyed font (PLRM § 5.11

Re: Mission statement and Knuth-Plass reconsidered

24 May 2023 at 09:57, Deri wrote: > On Tuesday, 23 May 2023 23:49:05 BST John Gardner wrote: > > The embedded typeface (both in the original PDF and Deri's version) are > > encoded in Type 1 format. Given the constraints of that particular font > > format, it wouldn'

Re: notice: intent to kill off 'Df'

Hi Branden, Support for 'f' may disappear in the next release, producing an error > diagnostic regarding an unrecognized command. > This doesn't sit right with me. Removing an obsolete feature to encourage adoption of a newer one runs counter to Groff's normative handling of legacy features—a man

Re: notice: intent to diganose use of 'Df'

uture release"* so it sounds less like an imminent or planned removal. Apart from that, I wholeheartedly endorse making deprecation warnings more obvious and noticeable by users. On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 at 21:39, G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John, &

Re: a morsel of groff 1.23.0 status

Bravo to everybody involved!! Seriously, I can't express just how good it feels to see a long-awaited release finally be published to the world. :) On Thu, 6 July 2023, 8:12 am G. Branden Robinson, < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > At 2023-07-05T23:31:54+0200, Bertrand Garrigues wrote: >

Re: missing -Tpdf (and the curious case of mandoc_roff(7))

G. Branden Robinson < g.branden.robin...@gmail.com> wrote: > At 2023-07-30T09:35:28+1000, John Gardner wrote: > [I wrote:] > > > I wonder why mandoc didn't just call its roff(7) page mandoc(7), given > > > that it parallels groff(7) more than anything else. > > &g

Re: missing -Tpdf (and the curious case of mandoc_roff(7))

> > I wonder why mandoc didn't just call its roff(7) page mandoc(7), given > that it parallels groff(7) more than anything else. > Strictly speaking, Groff is at fault here; the manual page dedicated to the Roff language proper should have been named as such, whereas groff(1) pertains to an execut

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