On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 22:21 -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Lol, sure. Before or after the release of the G2 branch? :)
I was thinking it could be done for gnucash 2.2. I can't imagine it
happening for 2.0, unless you want to push the release out another
couple of months. :-) Me, I'd like
David Hampton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The Lisp vs. Python arguments are so for out into the weeds that I can't
> even see the road anymore. Can we please bring this back to a
> discussion of what Gnucash can do to support extension languages? Like
> maybe add SWIG support so you can each u
"Stuart D. Gathman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
>
>> > Scripts should be understandable by humans with minimal
>> > or no introduction to the language. This may leave out otherwise
>> > very elegant languages like Prolog and pure functional l
Hey guys,
The Lisp vs. Python arguments are so for out into the weeds that I can't
even see the road anymore. Can we please bring this back to a
discussion of what Gnucash can do to support extension languages? Like
maybe add SWIG support so you can each use your favorite language.
David
___
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > Scripts should be understandable by humans with minimal
> > or no introduction to the language. This may leave out otherwise
> > very elegant languages like Prolog and pure functional languages.
> > o This may also leave out languages wit
"Stuart D. Gathman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> If you define "token" as whatever the language lexical structure
> defines as a "token" (and in Python, the INDENT and DEDENT tokens
> are composed of white space characters), then you can add whitespace
> between "tokens" wherever you please, sinc
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> So, I take this as a grudgingly granted (finally) admission that I
> cannot, in fact, add whitespace wherever I please between Python
> tokens.
Short answer: no
Long (and Clintonesque) answer: If you define "tokens" as lexical units that do
not
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> You mean that I can take Python programs and add newlines between any
> two tokens, and things will work? No extra tabs or spaces needed?
> Really?
You can add escaped newlines between any two tokens. You can
add unescaped newlines between any
"Stuart D. Gathman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
>
>> You mean that I can take Python programs and add newlines between any
>> two tokens, and things will work? No extra tabs or spaces needed?
>> Really?
>
> You can add escaped newlines between an
"Stuart D. Gathman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
>
>> I know perfectly well what the syntax of Python is. It is not
>> white-space independent; that makes it therefore white-space
>> dependent. I cannot break lines where I please; I cannot insert
On Sun, Oct 16, 2005 at 04:20:30PM -0400, Josh Sled wrote:
> > > > 1) A small handful of developers who know all the conventions, never
> > > > break the single build, only do things everybody agrees on, and can't
> > > > keep their project from being dropped by distros - and no one dares to
> > >
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> I know perfectly well what the syntax of Python is. It is not
> white-space independent; that makes it therefore white-space
> dependent. I cannot break lines where I please; I cannot insert or
> remove white-space where I please.
You *can* brea
On Sun, Oct 16, 2005 at 10:28:36PM +0200, Christian Stimming wrote:
> IIRC there has been some talk about automating this task already; that's
> even better.
Yeah,
I started to script this, but ended up spending all the time getting
'make dist' to work (which it did last time I checked) and ha
On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 13:52 -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Neil Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > This, to me, indicates that it is a test/bugfix build only. 1.9.0 looks
> > more
> > like a normal release.
> Lots of packages (linux, lilypond, etc) hold to the convention that an
> odd
"Stuart D. Gathman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Long answer: Ruby uses braces like C. As for Python, you're
> thinking of (old) Fortran, and RPG, where you had to put things into
> magic columns on your punch cards. Apparently, you haven't
> seriously looked at Python - which is "indent" depen
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> "Stuart D. Gathman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Python (LISP semantics, modern syntax), or Ruby (Smalltalk semantics,
> > modern syntax) would be good choices.
>
> You really think a white-space-dependent language is a "modern
> syntax"?
On Sunday 16 October 2005 10:23 pm, you wrote:
> Am Sonntag, 16. Oktober 2005 22:59 schrieb Neil Williams:
> > Can you run make check on the entire tree without any errors now?
>
> I am talking about the gnucash-1-8-branch, right?
Umm, no. I was thinking of G2. Oops. Ne'er mind, I'm going to bed n
"Stuart D. Gathman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Python (LISP semantics, modern syntax), or Ruby (Smalltalk semantics,
> modern syntax) would be good choices.
You really think a white-space-dependent language is a "modern
syntax"?
___
gnucash-devel
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005, Josh Sled wrote:
> Lisp is universal in a way that none of those other languages are. My
> argument is only that if one has any interest in programming, then the
> unique simplicity and perspective of lisp is something one should know.
Agreed. And I have done quite a bit of
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Josh Sled wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-10-14 at 13:53 -0400, Chris Shoemaker wrote:
> - get rid of scheme, it's dependencies and the startup loop.
There needs to be some kind of embedded script language. Both
to provide a high level interface to the underlying C code, and so
that
Christian Stimming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The other remark from you rather sounds like you should consider
> switching to a different distribution for some time. The world
> really doesn't revolve around Debian ;-) does it. I have of course
> zero idea why things wouldn't work on Debian, an
Neil Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Sorry, should have qualified that. Gnucash G2 only builds with
> gwrapguile v1.3 IF gcc3.4 or earlier is installed. If gcc4 is
> available, gwrapguile 1.3 causes the G2 build to halt.
Oh, ok, sure. 1.3.4 seems to work fine with gcc4 and gnucash 1.8.
_
Am Sonntag, 16. Oktober 2005 22:59 schrieb Neil Williams:
> On Sunday 16 October 2005 9:42 pm, Christian Stimming wrote:
> > I'm now testing the tarball here... well, it works and runs "make
> > distcheck". I guess it should work for you as well?
>
> You can run make distcheck? Why won't that work
On Sunday 16 October 2005 9:54 pm, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > gwrapguile v1.3.x only works with gcc 3.4 or earlier.
>
> Can you give me pointers please on this?
Sorry, should have qualified that. Gnucash G2 only builds with gwrapguile v1.3
IF gcc3.4 or earlier is installed. If gcc4 is availab
On Sunday 16 October 2005 9:42 pm, Christian Stimming wrote:
> I'm now testing the tarball here... well, it works and runs "make
> distcheck". I guess it should work for you as well?
You can run make distcheck? Why won't that work on Debian? I get scheme
errors!
Can you run make check on the ent
On Sunday 16 October 2005 8:17 pm, Christian Stimming wrote:
> I was about to say the same thing as Josh: Neil, you complained about the
> "fear" that you deal with when committing code to the gnucash-gnome2-dev
> branch. Well, a few weeks ago I already proposed that your further
> conceptual chang
Neil Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Sunday 16 October 2005 8:52 pm, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
>> Not clear which you mean when you say "gwrap".
>>
>> gwrapguile 1.3.4 1.3.4 1.3.4
>> g-wrap 1.9.5 1.9.6
Josh Sled schrieb:
[...]
>
>
> Great. Then we don't have to worry about what was released then, with
> respect to Debian. Awesome. :) [I think it would still be nice if a
> debian-stable end-user were to be able to download and build the source
> on their own, though.]
>
Or perhaps there will
Neil Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> This, to me, indicates that it is a test/bugfix build only. 1.9.0 looks more
> like a normal release.
Lots of packages (linux, lilypond, etc) hold to the convention that an
odd chain of releases is the development/testing line, and the even
ones are no
On Sunday 16 October 2005 8:52 pm, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Not clear which you mean when you say "gwrap".
>
> gwrapguile 1.3.4 1.3.4 1.3.4
> g-wrap 1.9.5 1.9.6 1.9.6
g-wrap v 1.9 or later is required if gcc4
On Sunday 16 October 2005 9:04 pm, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> It's also not clear to me whether we're talking about the G2 branch or
> the 1.8 branch.
That could well be because that decision is yet to be made. I don't know if
there is to be another bug fix release in 1.8 - there could be. AFAI
Hi Chris,
actually that file "dummy.c" never existed on my system at all. Since for
whatever reason "make dist" required it, I just created such an empty file
(touch dummy.c) and from there on, everything worked.
I'm now testing the tarball here... well, it works and runs "make distcheck".
I g
Dear developers,
just to bring up this issue again in a more formal way: We are now clearly
heading towards a release cycle of gnucash with gnome2.
The old gnucash-1.8.x release series might have one last gnucash-1.8.12
release which contains only bugfixes, but doesn't introduce new features o
On Sunday 16 October 2005 9:28 pm, Christian Stimming wrote:
> Additionally, I propose that we should start as soon as possible with
> pre-releases of the upcoming gnucash-2.0.0, which can still be in a quite
> buggy state. I propose that we make an extra release cycle from these,
> starting from "
On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 22:28 +0200, Christian Stimming wrote:
> Thoughts? Comments?
This all sounds right and good.
...jsled
--
http://asynchronous.org/ - `a=jsled; b=asynchronous.org; echo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
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gnucash-devel@
On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 15:11 -0400, Chris Shoemaker wrote:
> I agree about the negative feedback, and about striving for quality.
> But generating code that results in negative feedback is way better
> than generating no code, and is beneficial. And if the feedback loop
> is such that code developm
On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 12:52 -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Now some of what you've got above are gnome-2 libraries. Are we
> talking about a release of 1.8, or the G2 release?
On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 12:59 -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > Of course I want to target the future, and have th
Josh Sled <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I need your help, gnucash-user[s], to fill in the rest of the list.
> Please post the *latest* version number of the libraries/packages
> (listed at the top of the file) that were distributed either as part of
> the release or in an official updated package
It's *too late* to target Debian sarge for things. The time to do
that was before sarge was frozen, months ago.
But it is plenty of time to target the next Debian release (etch).
It's also not clear to me whether we're talking about the G2 branch or
the 1.8 branch. There's been recent talk abo
Just to add my take on that whole thread as well:
Am Freitag, 14. Oktober 2005 19:53 schrieb Chris Shoemaker:
> I recently came across (via /.) a brief 1-page article titled "-Ofun":
> http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/7996. I agree with the author's
> thesis, which is that optimizing a project's
Josh Sled <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Yeah, it's a pretty constrained problem. Please try to work with me
> here, though. We need to target the latest-yet-oldest versions we can
> get away with... I'm trying to find a way to make that work across
> multiple distros. I'm just trying to figure
On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 12:05 -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Josh Sled <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > That's fine... we can get the new release into the process for the
> > future. But I'm primarily talking about a gnucash release that can be
> > compiled against existing systems, even if it's
On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 20:21 +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> I'd much rather solve the problem with our link to goffice/gsf, if possible.
Yes.
> I'd hope we wouldn't have to, but if the dependency chain does halt at
> libgsf,
> that would work. Don't you think it's papering over the cracks though
Oops, typo:
On Sonntag, 16. Oktober 2005 21:03 Christian Stimming wrote:
> He really wrote that XML parser and gnucash-identical object model from
> scratch. He never re-used any other existing code, neither from gnucash nor
> from somewhere else, so he's not bound to GPL or anything else. He can
On Sun, Oct 16, 2005 at 11:34:24AM +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> >
> > You're right, this is HUGE. There's enough pain in the codebase
> > itself, but much of the pain is in code management. We *have* to fix
> > this somehow.
>
> Let's take an example or two and see if I can draw Josh's argume
On Sunday 16 October 2005 7:29 pm, Josh Sled wrote:
> > Unfortunately, this makes for difficult work with regard to the
> > libgoffice snapshot which fits one specific libgsf version and not later
> > ones.
>
> Yeah, it does. Debian doesn't have any "slotting" capability?
If absolutely necessary,
Am Sonntag, 16. Oktober 2005 19:03 schrieb Neil Williams:
> > > But in time for cashutil, which also involves structural changes to the
> > > codebase, this would be useful. QOF spinout is required before cashutil
> > > can be merged into the gnucash tree.
> >
> > I would like to see this happen on
On Sat, Oct 15, 2005 at 04:50:51PM -0400, Josh Sled wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-10-15 at 14:23 -0400, Chris Shoemaker wrote:
> > Furthermore, GnuCash is at *far* greater risk of rotting than it is of
> > being terminally broken.
>
> Interesting, as my arguement is that it is currently rotting because o
Josh Sled <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> That's fine... we can get the new release into the process for the
> future. But I'm primarily talking about a gnucash release that can be
> compiled against existing systems, even if it's not an official package.
Are you volunteering to do that work?
> Y
Hi there,
Am Sonntag, 16. Oktober 2005 16:56 schrieb Neil Williams:
> On Sunday 16 October 2005 2:12 pm, Herbert Thoma wrote:
> > Anyone aware of this?
> >
> > http://sourceforge.net/projects/jgnucashlib/
>
> It's not free software, despite the GPL indicator at SF.
well, the author (Marcus Wolsch
Josh Sled <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Sat, 2005-10-15 at 17:48 -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
>> In the case of Debian, this isn't the way it goes. Don't target
>> Debian sarge; target Debian unstable, which is in progress now.
>>
>> The freeze is expected sometime about a year from now.
Ganesan Rajagopal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> "Thomas" == Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>
>>> These days if I had to choose an extension language, I'd probably choose
>>> python or Lua. However, changing the extension language midship is not
>>> a good idea for Gnucash.
Neil Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Saturday 15 October 2005 6:12 pm, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
>> The point of guile, need I remind, is to get rid of the idea that
>> application designers should be picking the language that users must
>> write their extensions in. Guile needs front
Neil Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> That's a myth propagated in university colleges that has no relation to the
> real world of self-taught programmers.
Rght.
___
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On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 17:59 +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> On Sunday 16 October 2005 5:01 pm, Josh Sled wrote:
> > Especially since it's been so long since the last release, we should
> > seek to make the next release one that can work on fielded systems. As
> > such, it shouldn't depend on librari
probably again libofx-devel missing.
Didier.
Le dim 16/10/2005 à 18:21, Volker Englisch a écrit :
> > You probably have the GConf2 package if your machine runs gnome2. But
> > you will need to add the development version (GConf2-devel).
>
> Great. Thank you, Didier.
> Based on the error messa
On Sunday 16 October 2005 4:48 pm, Josh Sled wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 16:02 +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> > You make it sound like I'm hijacking gnucash.
>
> I don't believe that.
That's OK.
> I too want to see QOF be an external library that gnucash depends on.
My work will simply provide
On Sunday 16 October 2005 5:01 pm, Josh Sled wrote:
> Especially since it's been so long since the last release, we should
> seek to make the next release one that can work on fielded systems. As
> such, it shouldn't depend on libraries that are currently in the
> unstable/testing/development trac
Volker Englisch schrieb:
> You probably have the GConf2 package if your machine runs gnome2. But
> you will need to add the development version (GConf2-devel).
Great. Thank you, Didier.
Based on the error message displayed I was searching for gconf instead
of GConf.
Not entirely unexpected,
> You probably have the GConf2 package if your machine runs gnome2. But
> you will need to add the development version (GConf2-devel).
Great. Thank you, Didier.
Based on the error message displayed I was searching for gconf instead
of GConf.
Not entirely unexpected, I am now getting stuck a l
On Sat, 2005-10-15 at 17:48 -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> In the case of Debian, this isn't the way it goes. Don't target
> Debian sarge; target Debian unstable, which is in progress now.
>
> The freeze is expected sometime about a year from now.
Hmm, maybe I wasn't clear.
Especially sinc
> "Thomas" == Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> These days if I had to choose an extension language, I'd probably choose
>> python or Lua. However, changing the extension language midship is not
>> a good idea for Gnucash. Post G2, perhaps Gnucash core should gradually
>> b
On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 16:02 +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> You make it sound like I'm hijacking gnucash.
I don't believe that. I do believe you've been working at odds from
most of the other developers, making changes that others don't want
(right now) and breaking things from time to time. This
On Sunday 16 October 2005 3:23 pm, Josh Sled wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 11:34 +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> > This is ALL because the current version control system relies on the
> > final arbiter being a single directory on a single machine:
> > cvs.gnucash.org.
>
> No, it's not. It's because
Le dimanche 16 octobre 2005 à 10:40 +0100, Neil Williams a écrit :
> On Saturday 15 October 2005 12:22 am, Josh Sled wrote:
> > On Sat, 2005-10-15 at 00:13 +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> > > I have no knowledge of scheme and despite many appeals from Derek and
> > > others, I have absolutely no inte
On Sunday 16 October 2005 2:12 pm, Herbert Thoma wrote:
> Anyone aware of this?
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/jgnucashlib/
It's not free software, despite the GPL indicator at SF.
It has no front end - and isn't likely to get one if the source is not closed!
It seems very confused, on the
On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 11:34 +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> This is ALL because the current version control system relies on the final
> arbiter being a single directory on a single machine: cvs.gnucash.org.
No, it's not. It's because you're trying to extricate a lot of really
central code from a
On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 10:40 +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> On Saturday 15 October 2005 12:22 am, Josh Sled wrote:
> > If you have any interest in programming, you should know lisp. Period.
>
> Rubbish !
>
> That's a myth propagated in university colleges that has no relation to the
> real
Anyone aware of this?
http://sourceforge.net/projects/jgnucashlib/
Herbert.
--
Herbert Thoma
Head of Video Group
Multimedia Realtime Systems Department
Fraunhofer IIS
Am Wolfsmantel 33, 91058 Erlangen, Germany
Phone: +49-9131-776-323
Fax: +49-9131-776-399
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www: http://
Hi,
On Saturday 15 October 2005 19:10, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Martin Preuss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > I very much agree. Heaving read the other opinions it may very well be
> > that scheme is the best language ever, that every "Real Programmer" (tm)
> > should know it well, and it may
On my FC3 machine:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ locate gconf-2.0.pc
/usr/lib/pkgconfig/gconf-2.0.pc
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ rpm -qf /usr/lib/pkgconfig/gconf-2.0.pc
GConf2-devel-2.8.1-1
Sounds like you didn't install the Gnome-2 development environment.
You're going to have a LOT of missing packages.. I
On Sunday 16 October 2005 11:49 am, you wrote:
> The problem is that ~/.bashrc is not used for your (non-bash...) X
> session. If you use change the command for the menu entry to do
> something as "LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 gnucash"
Not accepted. I cannot specify en_GB.UTF-8 in the icon advanced properties
Le dim 16/10/2005 à 12:40, Neil Williams a écrit :
> On Thursday 13 October 2005 9:00 pm, Neil Williams wrote:
> > It's now fine. Problem solved. Account summary and reports are fine - no
> > pango warnings, no missing currency symbols or numbers and no funny
> > prefixes.
>
> Forget that. It's st
On Saturday 15 October 2005 1:25 am, Michael D. Wise wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-10-14 at 20:41 +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> > What version of goffice is available for rawhide?
>
> As Bill said in an earlier post, I don't think its in either Fedora Core
> or Extras. I've looked.
>
> > I'm using 0.0.4-1
On Saturday 15 October 2005 6:12 pm, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> The point of guile, need I remind, is to get rid of the idea that
> application designers should be picking the language that users must
> write their extensions in. Guile needs front ends for different
> languages, that's all.
Tha
On Thursday 13 October 2005 9:00 pm, Neil Williams wrote:
> It's now fine. Problem solved. Account summary and reports are fine - no
> pango warnings, no missing currency symbols or numbers and no funny
> prefixes.
Forget that. It's still broken.
Despite setting LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 in ~/.bashrc and
On Saturday 15 October 2005 2:05 am, Chris Shoemaker wrote:
> > 1. Hard to follow code layout - src/engine in particular has caused lots
> > of confusion on this list when trying to relate to QOF. CVS is the main
> > problem here, preventing file system re-organisation. (I like CVS but I
> > recogn
On Saturday 15 October 2005 12:26 am, Josh Sled wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-10-15 at 00:13 +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> > 1. Hard to follow code layout - src/engine in particular has caused lots
> > of confusion on this list when trying to relate to QOF. CVS is the main
> > problem here, preventing file
On Saturday 15 October 2005 12:22 am, Josh Sled wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-10-15 at 00:13 +0100, Neil Williams wrote:
> > I have no knowledge of scheme and despite many appeals from Derek and
> > others, I have absolutely no intention of learning it!
> >
> > I've been recommended to learn scheme so many
Thanks, Christian, for providing these version numbers. I've commited them to
Josh's file in CVS.
Christian
Am Sonntag, 16. Oktober 2005 09:38 schrieb Rauch Christian:
> Josh Sled schrieb:
> >I'm constantly forgetting or are unaware of what our target
> >distribution-releases are, and thus what
Josh Sled schrieb:
I'm constantly forgetting or are unaware of what our target
distribution-releases are, and thus what library-versions that means we
are targetting. To help record all the details, I've added the file
README.dependencies to CVS, on the gnome2 branch.
List for openSUSE 10.0
You probably have the GConf2 package if your machine runs gnome2. But
you will need to add the development version (GConf2-devel).
That will probably the case for a couple of other packages.
Didier.
Le dim 16/10/2005 à 08:01, Volker Englisch a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to help testing the gnome
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