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Subject: Re: [FRIAM] the Skeptical Meme
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 09:24:17 -0700
From: gⅼеɳ
To: Marcus Daniels
Just to be clear, I don't disagree with some abstraction of "point mutations"
on some thing oth
rom person to
> person and also from region to region, and that matters. But the black box
> (black hole?) of how minds form characters and orientations in response to
> streams of these things draws from an immense and to me-obscure range of
> inputs.
>
> Makes me wonder,
&g
best by personal experiences?
>
> I'd like to imagine that we *can* transcend all rules (explicit/implicit,
> crisp/fuzzy, etc.) but am not quite sure what that would mean or why?
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gⅼеɳ
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unrecognizeable languages, whose
> skin/hair/eye color or features were significantly different. I think these
> are very real evolutionarily adaptive roots of what we see as Xenophobia
> today.
--
gⅼеɳ
FRIAM Applied Complexi
tivism is just (apt) snark. But there's a big
difference between "chasing them away with sticks" and "holding the line". The
former is bad. The latter is good.
--
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listser
Those chants are stupid
anyway. >8^D
On 08/17/2017 12:36 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Hold the line, but if violence is used to break it, adopt a liberal
> definition of self-defense. I would have some concern of the tendency of a
> stick to fragment and not deliver enough en
niels wrote:
> Think combining Charlottesville and Kent State.. Not pleasant to think about
> but is it completely preposterous? I don't think so.
> Yes, every stylish urban pastor these days has a Kevlar robe!
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gⅼеɳ
=
Prius.On the high end, a Tesla Model S could
> just turn targets into smoke if need be.
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na into twice yearly
> anything goes horse races, take all this must do the
> right/wrong/good/evil/offensive thing energy and turn it into e-riots, or
> irl riots with cos play armor.
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gⅼеɳ
FRIAM Applied Complexity Gro
reated/joined
> apparently in 2008? The account has not tweeted and has only 125 followers,
> within
> whom I cannot find any particular pattern.
>
> Where are the Anonymous Hacktivists in all this? Their intentions often seem
> meritible
> but I can't tell how effec
There is no "there" there. There is only posturing and marketing. So,
what better to understand Trump, *but* tools for marketing?
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d Friedman and morph into garden
variety right wingers. [sigh]
But the more (and more often) we can root out the pseudo-scholars and replace
them with those less linguistically endowed, the easier it will be for the
laity to see how impoverished their ideas are.
On 08/17/2017 04:01 PM, gⅼеɳ
generations to turn wild foxes into reasonable
> approximations of domestic dogs, and all you have to do is select against
> aggression towards humans.)
>
> I know what the quote is trying to get at, but I'm not sure it holds up in
> the wider context of things-that-caus
. The idea of
> evolution groping blindly through morphology space is absurd.
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this<https://www.propublica.org/article/hell-and-high-water-text> article.
> And
> this<https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/houston-spent-massively-on-new-stadiums-not-its-aging-dams-as-harvey-proved-that-was-a-very-bad-choice/2017/09/05/94d006de-923a-11e7-aac
plain when you get punched for, say, acting like a Nazi.
On 09/10/2017 01:26 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> As far as out driving our headlights, yes please. That's all there is, in
> the end: Figuring stuff out. Everything else is just marking time.
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☣ gⅼеɳ
"Far from equilibrium" has more meanings than we often give it.
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aling with.
>
> https://medium.com/@russroberts/the-world-turned-upside-down-and-what-to-do-about-it-2dc27d1cf5f5
>
> <https://medium.com/@russroberts/the-world-turned-upside-down-and-what-to-do-about-it-2dc27d1cf5f5>
>
> Somewhat dark, but awfully close to home.
Ha! Perfectamundo!
On 09/14/2017 10:16 AM, Gillian Densmore wrote:
> /*Illegitimi non carborundum*/
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to unsubscr
at Republicans that I have had no sympathy for the people in Florida and
> Texas. I even know that most of the people who are hurt the most are probably
> Democrats. Still I can't seem to find any empathy for those states as such.
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☣ gⅼеɳ
==
d it three decades ago and it is spooking me out once
> more because the understory is the normalization of a subversive societal
> move toward a dystopian fascist state. It's promoted as science fiction, but
> it's very real and beware-- incredibly hard to watch.
y, but not the others. I can't yet watch "Cult", which is supposed to be
interesting.
On 09/14/2017 02:27 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> That Walking Dead stuff is for the red state audience.
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☣ gⅼеɳ
FRIAM Applied Co
t Evil, Z, Game of Thrones,
etc.).
On 09/14/2017 02:46 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> And here I thought the zombies were the brown-skinned immigrants coming to
> take away the white people's jobs, destroy their culture, and steal their
> statues.
r of 1-2M US Citizens
> because of their ethnicity (along with a smaller number of non-Citizens more
> recently immigrated from Mexico), qualifying for our modern definition of
> "ethnic cleansing".
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☣ gⅼеɳ
FRIAM Applied
l
I have nothing interesting to say about these two things. Maybe y'all do?
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y.com/wol1/doi/10.2307/3560820/abstract
I figure since we have some self-expressed monists, here, I might get lucky.
>
> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 11:11 AM, gⅼеɳ ☣ <mailto:geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Classifying the evolutionary and ecological features of neoplasm
relation (i.e. inference ≉
cause), and
2) I still think intra-individual circularity is necessary for biomimicry.
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[FRIAM] Maybe a new hardware approach to deal with AI developments
>
> Probably It is the most interesting tech article that I have read in weeks.
>
> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/16/technology/chips-off-the-old-block-computers-are-taking-design-cues-from-human-brains.html?emc=edit_th
omething of them besides the raw
> signals, evolution wouldn't have kept and perfected them.
>
> So the simple answer is that Hoffman is right that we don't see "the world as
> it is" but that doesn't mean there isn't a world as it is.
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☣ gⅼеɳ
tweight soft things like
> pillows, paper towels, and so on.
I agree. But I think it's important to emphasize that those neurons are an
integral part of the sensorimotor complex. It's a bit of a false dichotomy to
distinguish "thoughts" from teeth and tongue.
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☣ gⅼеɳ
=
havior, I'd have zero evidence that they dreamed at all.
So, even dreams are defined and determined by their extensions.
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re exploratory with our extensions. I suspect that's a
"unit" of selection as well.
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ing aside draining effects of chemotherapy or other debilitating
> illnesses some relatively healthy people just have no idea, and will never
> have an idea, how dramatically their body and metabolism can change with
> sustained exercise. That is not a behavior they will ever
not. exist.
Like the self, it's trickery... an ephemeral binding or syncopation of our
various particular intelligences. By this reasoning, one day, we'll simply
wake up and notice that our car, with all it's little pieces of machine
learning have resulted in accidentally/stigmerg
r CS majors) late binding. For
> English Majors, I refer you back to Douglas Adams who describes all of this
> in very good, imagistic prose.
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rs reading a text on egg identification.
> Is the reason physicists can’t make use of philosophy of science that they
> can’t think? I doubt anyone who cites this “aphorism” would come to that
> conclusion. Bad metaphor.
--
☣ gⅼеɳ
=
t; my throwdown as a "Philosopher" is equally detuned... but suspect myself to
> oscillate wildly between the poles of "Philosopher" and "Philistine". All
> that rattled off, I truly value having enough understanding of all of these
> ideals to recognize t
an vague"
>
> I think I know what he meant and generally support not getting frozen in
> inaction or muddying/qualifying a statement to the point of losing meaning.
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t he knew about
> "mind" because he knew so much about bats and insects?
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lays out here, yet for the most
> part we live in a world of inferred expectations which are largely confirmed.
> Like the other Feynman quote, it is wise only when we stipulate what is
> absurd about it and make something wise and noble of what is left.
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☣ gⅼеɳ
===
leaps across it, doubted at the
> moment of leaping that he could make the jump. I think James says Yes and
> Peirce says No. If that is the argument we are having, then I am satisfied
> we have wrung everything we can out of it.
>
> Anyway. I regret being cranky, but I c
>
> Those distinctions may occupy a different plane than the distinction between
> reasonableness and dogmatism all in the world of conversation and the social
> exchange.
>
> But I should not speak for others. Only for myself as a spectator.
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☣ gⅼеɳ
===
> and, therefore, at the moment of action, extinguishes all contrary beliefs.
> If you follow me here, I may appear to win the argument, but only on
> sophistic points.
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M
laws in
>> different bubbles of the multiverse?
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uld claim that all actions are actually temporally extended processes
rather than quantum events, I would claim that MOST actions involve branches
and many branches can be reached from other branches. So, not only are they
branched, but many of the branches don't "contradict" the oth
e more
> precise and falsifiable the predictions can be. Ideally, one would have a
> network of logical predicates that deterministically lead to one or a
> degenerate set of equivalent solutions.
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☣ gⅼеɳ
FRIAM Appl
pointed
> right at her. Hmm, maybe I'm not helping here? :-)
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at do you think? Is this a silly idea? Does something like it exist
already? Would it be interesting? Useless?
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6th World Congress and School on Universal Logic
http://www.uni-log.org/start6.html
--
☣ gⅼеɳ
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The computers being trained to beat you in an argument
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-41010848
> At the University of Dundee we have recently even been using 2,000-year-old
> theories of rhetoric as a way of spotting the structures of real-life
> arguments.
-
ubject:* Re: [FRIAM] AI and argument
>
>
> The article relates to a project I dreamed of ... helping people who disagree
> have a fair argument. In my notion, a team of philosophy students,
> masquerading as a program, directed discussants toward fair argument with a
> view, pe
e a great many
> immigrants are rapists and murderers. The argument valid but wrong, only
> because it starts from a false premise.
>
> So, if all arguments must eventually be based on premises derived from
> authorities, what separates appropriate and inapprop
for the principle below as an argument
> that you would approve of.
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an be *accurately*
formalized? Worse yet, do you believe that all argument can be reduced to
deduction?
On 10/03/2017 05:13 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> Aren't you missing a premise, if you are seeking a valid deductive argument?
>
> What connects Albert's thought with your
Or do you guys hold different views? Is this just some sort of semantic
> food fight that we can tidy up with a few quick definitions and move on? Or
> are we really arguing about something, here? Am not interested in the fine
> points of your thought, right now. What i
; is no commitment to convergence in such discourses. Screw pluralism.
>
>
>
> I think you ARE a Peircean.
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t
gt; fashions of criticism precisely because there is no commitment to
>> convergence in such discourses. Screw pluralism.
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> Turn that question around: How can even have a discussion if we don't assume
> that there is a truth of the matter? "Truth" is what makes it possible to
> have a discussion.
--
☣ gⅼеɳ
FRIAM Applied Complexity G
at was your experience like?
> The ones what don't like insurancy what's a typical cost to get started?
> per visit.
>
> Who do take insurance? If anyone knows? Did you have any luck? What other
> ways might help manage or fix TMJ and TechNech?
> Acupuncture School'
l
> months ago for the TechNeck and some of the TMJ. It helped some but with
> only 5-6 essions it's hard to make solid progress.
>
> What might be the next step then? BoddyWork specialist maybe? If their is
> such a thing?
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☣ gⅼеɳ
our remarks have a nonzero inner product
> with the truth, you don’t thereby “transcend” Feynman and stand above him, in
> the same way that set theory transcends and stands above arithmetic by
> constructing a model for it. Feynman’s achievements don’t thereby become
> your ach
zero inner
>> product with the truth, you don’t thereby “transcend” Feynman and stand
>> above him, in the same way that set theory transcends and stands above
>> arithmetic by constructing a model for it. Feynman’s achievements don’t
; chauvinist showboater, then even if your remarks have a nonzero inner
>>> product with the truth, you don’t thereby “transcend” Feynman and stand
>>> above him, in the same way that set theory transcends and stands above
l inquiry
> even roughly objective knowledge of reality, we must go beyond having a field
> that assumes P and a field that assumes not-P – we must investigate whether
> or not P is actually true.
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☣ gⅼеɳ
FRIAM Applied Comple
fore.
> The Grandfather Of Alt-Science
>
> https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-grandfather-of-alt-science/
> <https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-grandfather-of-alt-science/>
--
☣ gⅼеɳ
hink it's also important to point out that BOTH Nick
and Dave COULD BE wrong. Dave's idea that "mathematical logic" is impoverished
may not be right if something like Feferman's solution could work. And Nick's
idea that convergen
out in the university park blocks
> going after the Christian apologists. But they were the ones gas lighting
> the passers-by. Being an anti- gas lighter – a demolisher of belief -- is
> not being a gas lighter. The complement of the gas-lighted message and it
> is a b
tempt to describe a naive realist's definition of truth that differs from
Peirce's? Or perhaps you could describe Hoffman's interface perception theory
(which I think is an alternative to what you're saying Peirce's is)?
--
☣ gⅼеɳ
=
e and the mind
> stuff in here. Truth can apply to both kinds of stuff. I E, there is a
> truth-of-the-matter with respect to what you think or what I think, as well
> as a truth of the matter with respect to whether what we think is true of the
> world.
--
☣ gⅼеɳ
maticians, and perhaps that pointed out by you or Rosen.
On 10/17/2017 01:18 PM, Prof David West wrote:
> Nothing about language or thought, but a hint of the truth-preserving
> machine in which people squirm that Glen described.
--
☣ gⅼеɳ
=
10/19/2017 12:07 AM, Prof David West wrote:
> I define lower-case truth as nothing more than one of those capability
> diminishing 'failures' of the system.
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koff wrote:
> Actors use the term, 'mail it in' to describe performances that are done
> without thought. Tom Cruise is an actor oft accused of mailing it in because
> everything he does, regardless of film or character, is the same - it is Tom
> Cruise, not the character
So, the model effectively reduces to only 1
agent and its environment, regardless of the structure of that environment.
On 10/19/2017 11:34 AM, Prof David West wrote:
> Nick's definition arises at the level of a group, while mine is restricted to
> the condition of a single entity.
--
ou’re waiting for software updates for your mobile devices and
> computers we recommend using our VPN client while connected to WiFi. The
> encrypted tunnel that the VPN creates when you connect prevents
> Man-in-the-middle attacks. This is the sort of
[sigh]
If it weren't for that serial-killer-style van with the fake looking logo on
the side, parked outside my house every month or so, I wouldn't worry so much.
8^)
On 10/20/2017 04:11 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Add extra (vpn/tor) encry
, and similar aside. Cessation of neural activity ,
>autonomic
>functions like cardio pulmonary circulation usually stop abruptly.
>Even
>cell metabolism endures for only a few minutes. But other processes
>(especially among the human biome)
th of development that matters, then as a society we ought to invest more
> in retired people as their uniqueness is deeper and also more fragile. But
> instead we celebrate births even thought infants are mere hardware that won't
> have consciousness for months after birth.
d math scores gets you 5 vouchers. Good language scores get you
3. 8^) And vouchers are non-transferable and temporally limited. If you have
more than 7 babies, then you're on your own for the remainder.
Of course, it has to be incentive based, or we'll retread some of
Assuming that this fossilization
> occurs, is that a human idiosyncrasy that plasticity reduces? Perhaps it
> could be treated with drugs, electroshock therapy, stem cells, PTSD
> medication, etc.?
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☣ gⅼеɳ
FRIAM Applied
gt;
> It could be that the high-order aspects of wisdom are cognitively too costly
> (operationally) at some point. Diminishing returns on complexity.. Delays
> on action are as dangerous as imprudent actions.
--
☣ gⅼеɳ
FRIA
program for
specialty selection.
On 10/30/2017 01:52 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
> So maybe AIs will have molting stages?
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ection Theory. But, Constructor Theory might be very
> much in line with Jeremy England's Physics Theory of Life
> <https://www.quantamagazine.org/first-support-for-a-physics-theory-of-life-20170726/>
> (Note: this is from /QuantaMagazine/, which we also discussed) and,
ould seem
> that is the very definition of Objectness which I believe Selfness inherits
> from. Perhaps Brian Cantwell Smith has had something to say about all of
> this? It has been decades since I read him... maybe I can find my copy of
> "Origin of Objects"? Or maybe
e age, not
that we can't (somewhat) re-generalize at any point in our path to death, only
that the extent to which we re-generalize lessens.
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nt I will find the woodstove perched on top
> of those very same blocks again. Of course, I may change plans mid-course
> if I find another set of blocks with more appropriate or promising qualities
> for the purpose..
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=
> The old Chestnut about whether a tree falling in a forest makes a sound is an
> example.
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luding yourself, you will have a difficult time.
>
> Here is a link:
>
>
> http://borderlinepersonality.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/06/lack-of-object.html
>
> <http://borderlinepersonality.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/06/lack-of-object.html>
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=
an "either-or". In Fiddler on the Roof, Tevya says to A,
> "you're right". B objects and Tevya says again, "You're right". C says that
> they can't both be right and Tevya says, "You're also right".
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☣ gⅼеɳ
=
d.
> So, if Marletto is consistent with England, then Marletto might also be
> consistent with Smolin. And my stronger assertion is that England does not
> seem to contradict Smolin.
>
> If, in Marletto, we set the "recipe" to entropy maximization, then all 3
>
ory into the abiogenesis by
> appealing to the idea of metabolic homeostasis with the production of
> dissipative systems being a likely outcome in this universe. Anyway, I should
> have used the term "complements" versus "competes."
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==
ionalize and excuse asocial behavior
> · Results in existential loneliness
>
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:
> And, what is the relation between PoMo and Existentialism? I take
> existentialism to be the doctrine that all meaning in life, if human life has
> any meaning, is generated or asserted by the humans that live it.
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☣ gⅼеɳ
:
> And, what is the relation between PoMo and Existentialism? I take
> existentialism to be the doctrine that all meaning in life, if human life has
> any meaning, is generated or asserted by the humans that live it.
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☣ gⅼеɳ
formed naivety', 'pragmatic idealism' and 'moderate fanaticism'
> of the various cultural responses to, among others, climate change, the
> financial crisis, and (geo)political instability./
>
> /The prefix 'meta' here refers not to some re
Also Known As: Beware equating experience with existence.
On 11/21/2017 02:00 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Beware the tendency to think that if you can't immediately measure something
> then it doesn't exist.
--
☣ gⅼеɳ
==
t; to companies and their employees]. The employer and employee come into this
> relationship where we're going to train you and you will work for us for the
> next five years. We'll put you on this curriculum where every couple months
>
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