[FRIAM] for the marketeers amongst us

Should everyone be paid based on merit/outcome? E.g. I go to the oncologist because cytometry tests show I have stage 4 lymphoma. We go through a years long treatment, at the end of which I may be a responder or a non-responder. A free marketeer *should* argue that the oncologist shouldn't be pa

Re: [FRIAM] semi-idle question

IDK. This thread seems polluted with some sort of arrogant premise that "natural selection" doesn't include cultural selection *or* engineering. The "natural" in natural selection doesn't mean the same thing it means when you see it on a green-washed plastic package in the grocery store or at yo

Re: [FRIAM] semi-idle question

I pressed a similar argument for CRISPR on vFriam this week. If the socially responsible thing to do is to vaccinate for COVID-19, then perhaps it is even more socially responsible to CRISPR away all potential to contract the virus for future generations. -- Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nab

Re: [FRIAM] semi-idle question

And I wondered why the impulse to develop contraception and vaccines, for example, and social welfare programs aren't elements of the environment. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Mon, Apr 26, 2021, 1:13 PM jon zingale wrote: > I presse

Re: [FRIAM] semi-idle question

Both of these (using CRISPR to edit away the problem or where to draw the line between selected and selector) seem to miss the larger point, which is that "natural" selection is a kind of metaphysical "top turtle". No matter how grandiose our engineering scheme, no matter how high and total-uni

Re: [FRIAM] semi-idle question

It seems to me the social and legislative reactions to COVID-19, such as they are, are not so different from the choice to use CRISPR to engineer around a disease at the population level. They are both high-order behaviors that come from evolution, they aren't separate from it. There are unfo

Re: [FRIAM] for the marketeers amongst us

No, a free market system is not limited to outcome based contracts. Free market is allowing two (or more) parties to have a valid contract on the terms and conditions both (or all) parties agree on. A patient and an oncologist may agree on a contract where the patient pays for the effort and not th

Re: [FRIAM] for the marketeers amongst us

OK. But a contract-governed market isn't any more "free" than a regulated market, neither of which are maximally efficient. And in the context where all the negotiating power lies with one side or the other, those contracts may end up even *more* restrictive than government regulations. (E.g. if

Re: [FRIAM] semi-idle question

I accept (embrace) that the larger human enterprise that includes our myriad social/political/economic/technological systems is the element that is "evolving" and that practices such as Engineering "evolve" in that context. I believe that the rate of evolution in the social/political and NOW techn

Re: [FRIAM] for the marketeers amongst us

* "But a contract-governed market isn't any more "free" than a regulated market"* Maybe what we understand by "free" is different? If I evaluate the risk rewards and decide I want to get dentures for 1 dollar from the "pavement-dentist" and the regulators do not prevent the transaction, I conside

Re: [FRIAM] semi-idle question

It's sentences like "outstrips the phenotype/genotype evolution" that confuse me. I can twist my mind into restricting *generators* to mean sub-strands of DNA and the machinery that manipulates it. And I can twist my mind into restricting "phenotype" to be those traits that *seem* to be more gov

Re: [FRIAM] semi-idle question

Why is it arrogant to notice the apparent existence of "rapid-tempo-evolution" and "glacial-tempo-evolution"; label those observed things "natural" and "cultural" merely, and only, for sake of convention; and then surmise some substantial difference in the enabling mechanisms and processes? "gl

Re: [FRIAM] for the marketeers amongst us

Yes, maybe we do mean different things. I typically think "free" in the market sense means able to trade whenever and for whatever. So, if I want to buy an island, I should be able to do so in the blink of an eye. Of course, that's physically impossible. So we come up with a principle like "as f

Re: [FRIAM] semi-idle question

It would NOT be arrogant to, say, run a component analysis and read off the conclusion showing the clusters. What would be arrogant is to then say, "My algorithm is perfect, cannot be criticized, and has no flaws." Sure some processes are faster than others. But the *species* boundary is ... [a

Re: [FRIAM] semi-idle question

I want to accede to something here, but I can't quite find what the "it" is here to accede to.   In the spirit of Cordwainer-Smith's "objects",   there is something *like* humanity which is adapting (ok, call it evolving) rapidly, especially if you extend  "phenotype" to include our co-evolved rel

Re: [FRIAM] semi-idle question

Let me say it another way. I think gene guns are an evolutionary operator like sexual crossover. But that doesn't quite get at what I'm saying either, because it still targets DNA. So I'll also say that the marketing campaign by cereal companies to get us to eat breakfast every day is *also* an

Re: [FRIAM] for the marketeers amongst us

I suspect, to use an open source software aphorism, you are speaking of "free as in beer" and Glen is speaking of "free as in freedom". On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 5:04 PM Pieter Steenekamp < piet...@randcontrols.co.za> wrote: > * "But a contract-governed market isn't any more "free" than a regulated

Re: [FRIAM] for the marketeers amongst us

There’s “free” in the sense that neither the culture nor economy understood yet how to quantify or even talk about hypothetical transactions because the topics in question haven’t percolated through the population. Usually people think of a libertarian “free” in the sense of don’t tell me what

Re: [FRIAM] (no subject)

""" I like what Leslie Valiant has to say in PAC, as a way of framing theissues, even though I know he is a punching bag for the geneticistsbecause of various things they understand as important that he isn’ttrying to understand deeply or deal with. I don’t care that he hadlimitations; the questio

Re: [FRIAM] semi-idle question

Ha! or cereal as a more explicity /evolutionary operator/ as in the sense of Kellogg: reference 1 reference 2