Re: [FRIAM] hidden

As I read this,I am reminded of the 20th century (seems to long ago), in which the high-energy physicists dug a social pit for themselves, from which the ones they offended do not want ever to let them escape. Keyword is Reductionism. The narrative went something like this (HEP = High Energy P

Re: [FRIAM] Mission to Abisko

Curses for both Steve and Merle who FORCED me to Amazon to purchase both Boundaries and Barriers and Paradigms Lost. Only there for five minutes and bought those two plus three others. You people are enablers and I am a weak addict. davew On Mon, May 18, 2020, at 4:01 PM, Steve Smith wrote: >

Re: [FRIAM] Miller, miller moths everywhere...

Hi, Merle, Are you sure it’s not 19 years? The standard “take” on insect eruptions is (used to be?) that they occur on a cycle of prime numbers to make it harder for creatures with shorter cycles to “track” them. See https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/the-cicadas-love-aff

Re: [FRIAM] Mission to Abisko

Dave - > Curses for both Steve and Merle who FORCED me to Amazon to purchase > both Boundaries and Barriers and Paradigms Lost. Only there for five > minutes and bought those two plus three others.  You people are > enablers and I am a weak addict. But only after you forced me to buy Abisko and Bo

Re: [FRIAM] Miller, miller moths everywhere...

In the 25 years we lived in ABQ,, we had more frequent invasions than 19 or 20 years apart. If you believe it depends on prime numbers, how about 5 or 7? Also the invasions were much more dense that what we’ve seen here. We’d get up in the morning and hundreds would be jammed under the front doo

Re: [FRIAM] Miller, miller moths everywhere...

Nick - I *like* this kind of anecdotal/vernacular science.   I think Glen might refer to these stories/ideas as "just so stories" because they seem to be post-hoc fitting of simple yet in some sense apt models to anecdotal data gathered ad-hoc but widely.    I think I understand (and agree) with h

Re: [FRIAM] Miller, miller moths everywhere...

Steve, Re stories, that’s probably why I was drawn to Darwinism. Every Darwinian explanation, no matter how sophisticated, is a story, a historical narrative, arising from plausible suppositions about the way things were. Last time I read the literature, the mitochondrial data on humans s

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

You jumped close to where I was about to go! Now that we have some conception of how this principle is holographic (everything's there on the surface, all we need is the way to read it), I'd like to demonstrate that we don't *need* "interiority" to argue for privacy. But my argument differs a bi

Re: [FRIAM] Miller, miller moths everywhere...

Nick is a big fan of scientific story - at least "popular science" conveyed with stories - ala "Private Lives of Garden Birds" by Calvin Simonds. davew On Tue, May 19, 2020, at 10:13 AM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote: > Steve, > > Re stories, that’s probably why I was drawn to Darwinism. Eve

Re: [FRIAM] Miller, miller moths everywhere...

Oh you mean an ODE.. From: Friam on behalf of Prof David West Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 9:30 AM To: "friam@redfish.com" Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Miller, miller moths everywhere... Nick is a big fan of scientific story - at leas

[FRIAM] Fwd: Help our journalists seek the truth.

In case anyone's interested TJ Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h) *NM Foundation for Open Government* *Ch

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

I think you've hit this squarely, probably because I read it as confirming my bias *against* monism and for pluralism. A while back, I tried to call out the difference between abstraction and unification. Abstraction ignores particularities (even if carefully), whereas unification facilitates th

Re: [FRIAM] Miller, miller moths everywhere...

The moths seem to have vanished from my house in Albuquerque. Yesterday they covered every outdoor surface, and now I can't even find a corpse of one. Did they all end up in Pojoaque getting nibbled on by chickens? Cody Smith On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 10:31 AM Marcus Daniels wrote: > Oh you mean

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

Glen - > You jumped close to where I was about to go! Now that we have some conception > of how this principle is holographic (everything's there on the surface, all > we need is the way to read it) I appreciate this (added) exposure of your (hidden/interior) meaning of "holographic".   My own e

Re: [FRIAM] Miller, miller moths everywhere...

> Oh you mean an ODE..   > One of my favorite poetic forms IS the "ode".  In particular Neruda's "Ode to Common Things" and I DO think that many of what Nick is calling "ideographic" stories as acting somewhat as an ode of this type.   On the other hand, the ODE of calculus is not as apt as a PDE

Re: [FRIAM] Miller, miller moths everywhere...

Anyway, a story is just a computable story with ABM. From: Friam on behalf of Steve Smith Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 11:30 AM To: "friam@redfish.com" Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Miller, miller moths everywhere... Oh you mean an ODE.

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

EricS, Glen, David, Frank, Steve, EricC Old Uncle Tom Cobbley, and all, Let me again thank you all for allowing me to sharpen my thinking against your whetstone. I am perhaps at my most uneasy arguing against EricS, but here goes. Speaking of whetstones, let’s start with Glen’s most

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

I'd like to avoid your (more accurate) use of holography in talking about this "holographic principle". While the technical details of actual holography are interesting, it adds noise to the idea I'm offering. (Again, I don't believe this idea, myself. I'm offering it as a rewording of what I he

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

> I don’t have anything useful or clarifying to say about inner experience either, except to vote that it seems a fine term from which to begin an in Psychoanalysts have been working on this for over a century but scientists reject their methodology and many of their conclusions. They reject the

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Hi, all, Before it gets buried and institutionalized in the thread, the term is “idiographic”, not “ideographic”. It doesn’t have to do with ideas but with the study of events that are thought of as inherently individual, one-off, non-repeatable. Case histories are idiographs. The contr

[FRIAM] evaporative cooling

A technical question for you high-desert scientists: How far can one take evaporative cooling? With dewpoint temperatures in the teens, how far down can the output of a swamp cooler be. This relates to a question I asked you all in the dead of winter: given a dewpoint temperature way below fr

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

Dreams: A *lot* of clinical (idiographic) reading would be obligatory to do it right. I am skeptical that a nomothetic approach would be possible or useful. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Tue, May 19, 2020, 1:41 PM wrote: > Hi, all,

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

Would Jung's alchemical approach to dreams be nomothetic? davew On Tue, May 19, 2020, at 2:02 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote: > Dreams: A *lot* of clinical (idiographic) reading would be obligatory to do > it right. I am skeptical that a nomothetic approach would be possible or > useful. > > --- >

[FRIAM] IS: Research on Dreams WAS: hidden

What would the goal of such research be. I once did some research on mockingbirds, which have extremely variable songs and can sing for hours at a time. To study them, one must make spectrograms, and each spectrogram represents only a few seconds of song. The idea of doing a nomothetic st

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

Dave, You have every reason to expect me to know about this, but I don’t. Whazzat? Nick Nicholas Thompson Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University thompnicks...@gmail.com https://w

Re: [FRIAM] IS: Research on Dreams WAS: hidden

This is very close to what I was going to propose, except I intended to say something snarky like: We *already* do nomothetic studies of dreams. The results of which are gathered and used in sleep labs all over the country. But it sounds like y'all are talking about doing a nomothetic study of w

Re: [FRIAM] IS: Research on Dreams WAS: hidden

Memories and the accounts thereof are considered valid dream material and it is well known that they have an imperfect relationship to the dream. It doesn't matter. Even if a person makes up.a dream; it is grist for the mill. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670

Re: [FRIAM] evaporative cooling

No scientific results here, but some anecdotal experience from about 40 years ago. I spent two summers in west Texas (near Wink, birthplace of Roy Orbison). I was a field tech on a project studying Desert Side-blotched Lizards. Temperatures were often over 110 F in the early afternoon, with humidit

Re: [FRIAM] IS: Research on Dreams WAS: hidden

As a study of story-telling, I agree. As a study of dreaming, I disagree. To study dreaming, we hook people up to equipment, let them sleep and monitor what happens while they're asleep. (That includes equipment like blood work and fMRI, just to be clear.) On 5/19/20 1:40 PM, Frank Wimberly wro

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

glen - > I'd like to avoid your (more accurate) use of holography in talking about > this "holographic principle". While the technical details of actual > holography are interesting, it adds noise to the idea I'm offering. (Again, I > don't believe this idea, myself. I'm offering it as a rewordi

Re: [FRIAM] evaporative cooling

Hi You need a psychometric chart for this. Here's one off the internet https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Evaporative-Cooler-Process-on-Psychometric-Chart-where-e-Efficiency-in-percent-T-DBE_fig5_271288974 On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 2:10 AM Gary Schiltz wrote: > No scientific results here, but som

Re: [FRIAM] evaporative cooling

https://www.fieldstudyoftheworld.com/persian-ice-house-how-make-ice-desert/ ___ Ed Angel Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab) Professor Emeritus of Computer

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

On 5/19/20 1:47 PM, Steve Smith wrote: > The part I *think* > you want to preserve is perhaps is that of lossless dimension reduction, > and a part-whole relation (where any small part/sampling of the > whole-ogram yields *some* information about the whole target)? Yes. I take the position to be:

[FRIAM] John Conway: "Travels With John Conway, in 258 Septillion Dimensions The Princeton mathemagician, who died in April, left an engaging legacy of numerical gamesmanship."

Perhaps of interest: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/16/science/john-conway-math.html Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h) *NM Fou

Re: [FRIAM] IS: Research on Dreams WAS: hidden

Well, yes, but for which mill?? If one accepts dream reports as proxies for dreams, what is the universe to which one is generalizing? Nick Nicholas Thompson Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University thompnicks...@gmail.com

Re: [FRIAM] evaporative cooling

Nifty, Ed. Nifty. Nicholas Thompson Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University thompnicks...@gmail.com https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam On Behalf Of Edward Angel Sen

Re: [FRIAM] IS: Research on Dreams WAS: hidden

But how is this a study of dreaming. N Nicholas Thompson Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University thompnicks...@gmail.com https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -Original Message- From: Friam On Behalf Of u?l? ? Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:47 PM

Re: [FRIAM] IS: Research on Dreams WAS: hidden

For which mill: understanding the patient's unconscious processes. Anything the patient produces including dream accounts, feelings toward the therapist (positive and negative), conscious fantasies (sexual or otherwise), accounts of childhood experiences, crying, rages, forgetting to pay the bill.

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

Q: Why are not dreams, like any other experience, proper objects o study? A: Because, unlike other experiences, we report them after we have them. Q: No, that can't be right. There is no situation in which we actually report the experience precisely as we have it. So, the difference between

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

EricS, Philosophically, I most closely identify with what I perhaps could call phenomenological-materialism. For me all ideas we have, we have exactly because they are *afforded* by the world. There may not be unicorns, but horses and animals with horns do exist. Unicorns then are *afforded*. The

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

My mind doesn't feel trivialized, Jon. I like being an example--of most things that I am. Frank On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 5:56 PM Jon Zingale wrote: > EricS, > > Philosophically, I most closely identify with what I perhaps could call > phenomenological-materialism. For me all ideas we have, we h

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

You may consider the question closed as soon as you tell me the name of my 6th grade classmate. :-) On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 6:28 PM Frank Wimberly wrote: > My mind doesn't feel trivialized, Jon. I like being an example--of most > things that I am. > > Frank > > On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 5:56 PM

Re: [FRIAM] John Conway: "Travels With John Conway, in 258 Septillion Dimensions The Princeton mathemagician, who died in April, left an engaging legacy of numerical gamesmanship."

Tom, I would love to be able to read this. Is there another place that isn't behind a pay wall? Jon -- --- .-. . .-.. --- -.-. -.- ... -..-. .- .-. . -..-. - . -..-. . ... ... . -. - .. .- .-.. -..-. .-- --- .-. -.- . .-. ... FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mt

Re: [FRIAM] IS: Research on Dreams WAS: hidden

Dear Friam, This reply was unintentionally sent here. I was answering Nick's "for what mill?" question and I didn't notice that he asked it in an email to the Group. I apologize. Frank On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 5:37 PM Frank Wimberly wrote: > For which mill: understanding the patient's uncon

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

EricS, You write: *I bring up this debate in mathematics because it seems significant to mehow long and how intensely it has been going on, with both sides wanting anotion of “truth”, and neither being able to claim to have achieved it in termssatisfied by the other. If the intuitionists h

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

I like this Glen, particularly the following: > On May 20, 2020, at 2:10 AM, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote: > > I really wish more people would/could permanently install a "methodological" > qualifier in front of every -ism they advocate. So, if you call yourself a > monist, are you a methodological monist? An

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Hi, Eric S, Thanks again for your thoughtful commentary. As I read it, I came in and out of understanding it just as I came in and out of understanding Glen’s gloss on “inside”, just before I FINALLY got it. So there is hope for me. This is why lists are a death trap, a kind of cognit

Re: [FRIAM] John Conway: "Travels With John Conway, in 258 Septillion Dimensions The Princeton mathemagician, who died in April, left an engaging legacy of numerical gamesmanship."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/16/science/john-conway-math.html -- Russ Abbott Professor, Computer Science California State University, Los Angeles On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 6:01 PM Jon Zingale wrote: > Tom, > > I would love to be able to read this. > Is there another place that isn't behind a

Re: [FRIAM] John Conway: "Travels With John Conway, in 258 Septillion Dimensions The Princeton mathemagician, who died in April, left an engaging legacy of numerical gamesmanship."

No. But you can subscribe to the NTY for $1 per week if you watch the specials. On Tue, May 19, 2020, 11:12 PM Russ Abbott wrote: > https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/16/science/john-conway-math.html > > -- Russ Abbott > Professor, Computer Science > California State University, Los Angeles > > >

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This is why lists are a death trap, a kind of cognitive-affective pitcher plant. Always there is the impulse to say “Oh no no no! You have misunderstood me!”. But of course there is no sentence compassable that can’t be misunderstood. Whoever is most tenacious will simply outlive the others,

Re: [FRIAM] hidden

This s lovely stuff, Jon, above my understanding and beyond my reach to learn in my current circumstances. Thank you for both. I know Fotini distantly, from brief overlap at SFI; I didn’t understand that this was the particular thing she had done, though I knew this was the general area of her