Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

2019-01-16 Thread uǝlƃ ☣
There's something nagging at me. But I can't quite figure out what it is. On the one hand, you say "The larger culture is where these attractors ... exist." Yet you seem to allow for (these or other) attractors to exist at a finer layer, within you or in a very proximate locale near you with

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

2019-01-16 Thread Marcus Daniels
Glen writes: < So, to [mis]extrapolate all the way to social systems, a rally participant may not have much choice but to feel the adrenaline rush of chanting "Lock Him Up!". But where is the attractor in such a conception? > Some people participate in intramural sports or sing in a choir.

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

2019-01-16 Thread uǝlƃ ☣
That's fine. But it doesn't directly address the point. Is experience-being-with-other-people really an "attractor" in the sense we usually use that term? I don't think so. I think the normal (complexity fanboi) sense of "attractor" is at least somewhat reductionist/thin/flat and not commen

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

2019-01-16 Thread Marcus Daniels
I think of the "experience being with other people" as sort of like how my herding dog follows me from room to room. There's a knob in her head that is set to keep a visual distance with her people. It's what she expects and it comes from her breed. It's not the result of a dynamical syste

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

2019-01-16 Thread Steven A Smith
I don't know if this helps but these group-experiences seem to me to have the feature of phase-lock, canalization, and entrainment.  I recently *re*watched a surreal dystopian scandinavian film "The Bothersome Man" where the protaganist finds himself (after a suicide/attempt) delivered to a city/j

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

2019-01-16 Thread Steven A Smith
I appreciate the point: It's not the result of a dynamical system that occurs has occurred on the timescale of her life. There may be psychochemical dynamical systems inside her body involved in maintaining "sight of you" and there likely *were* complex feedback loops in the intentional breedin

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

2019-01-16 Thread uǝlƃ ☣
Well, someone could suggest that the bred-in knob is the stable feature in a larger evolutionary/ecological system in which the breed and individual organism are finer grained components entrained by the larger dynamic. So by slicing out the organism's timescale from the evolutionary timescale,

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

2019-01-16 Thread Steven A Smith
> There's something nagging at me. Not surprising, this was pretty "off the cuff" but I'll try to either defend/modify/retract as appropriate. > But I can't quite figure out what it is. On the one hand, you say "The > larger culture is where these attractors ... exist." Yet you seem to allo

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

2019-01-16 Thread Marcus Daniels
Steve writes: < There may be psychochemical dynamical systems inside her body involved in maintaining "sight of you" and there likely *were* complex feedback loops in the intentional breeding of her ancestors as well as the natural selection environments that lead her first ancestor (w

Re: [FRIAM] Few of you ...

2019-01-16 Thread Nick Thompson
Steve, As a good friend, I would like to gently chide you for the implicit assumption that a the assignment of any behavioral automism to a particular physiological cause makes it more plausible as an automism. It is what it is however it comes to be, isn't it? Could it not have been imprin