Re: [FRIAM] more modal realism

2021-12-30 Thread glen
Well, the why not something won't work. If he doesn't see the problem identifying negation with absence, then he won't grok the significance of the "not" there. He's a philosopher, but not trained in any formal logic. He's more from the literary tradition. Of course, logically inclined people g

Re: [FRIAM] more modal realism

2021-12-29 Thread Eric Charles
That all seems right to me. We could even imagine that there is only one universe, and it is normally nothing, but that, during very short windows within the time when it isn't, sometimes sentient life springs up and asks silly questions. Have you tried countering with "Why NOT something?" On W

Re: [FRIAM] more modal realism

2021-12-29 Thread glen
Yes. I made the anthropocentric argument at one point. Either I did a bad job of it, or he rejects it for some other reason. But I have NOT made the sheer numbers argument yet. An ordering in time, like you use with "long enough" doesn't seem, to me, very distinct from an ordering in space (num

Re: [FRIAM] more modal realism

2021-12-29 Thread Eric Charles
This always struck me as such a weird discussion. I've had people try to drag me into it a few times. If there was ever the slightest change that something could come from nothing, and nothing was around for long enough, eventually something would come from it. But, I think the better point is s

Re: [FRIAM] more modal realism

2021-12-28 Thread Prof David West
Frank, it was definitely a panic attack, but with a strange sense of observing myself having one. I have had similar experiences where I was aware that my body was going into shock, but somehow remaining independent and being able to "manage" the process with meditation and breathing techniques.

Re: [FRIAM] more modal realism

2021-12-28 Thread Frank Wimberly
Dave, Would you call the anxiety you experienced a "panic attack"? I've had a couple each of which was stimulated by a dream in which I was going to be trapped inside of something (claustrophobia). In each case it took medication to dissipate the intense anxiety. Also, I think I had a milder at

Re: [FRIAM] more modal realism

2021-12-28 Thread Prof David West
An experiential (400 mike trip): In the beginning there was Nothing — the Singularity. Then a quite literally impossible differentiation occurred; setting of a chain reaction of differentiation and hence Something(s). This experience parallels the Taoist dictum that from One came Two, from Two

Re: [FRIAM] more modal realism

2021-12-28 Thread glen
It's OK. I fixed your larding format. Just like with your challenge to what "possible" means, we have to also challenge the use of "random". You can't say "experience is random" without some kind of _set_ or _space_ of experiences from which to choose. E.g. it makes sense to say things like "Th

Re: [FRIAM] more modal realism

2021-12-28 Thread thompnickson2
Glen, Forgive me for larding but it is the best way for me when I have a yet a little to say back to somebody who has had a lot to say a lot. Nick Thompson thompnicks...@gmail.com https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -Original Message- From: Friam On Behalf Of glen Sent