Re: [FRIAM] Thread Bust: WAS: stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

Hi, Glen, It was quite clear that CHAOS was a much more "powerful" program, but I got an error message when I went to download it, and about that time Steve's message came in. Miles has some passing familiarity with NetLogo and I don't think we need the power to demonstrate the essential poin

Re: [FRIAM] Thread Bust: WAS: stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

Thanks, Glen. I will go back and check it out. N Nick Thompson thompnicks...@gmail.com https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -Original Message- From: Friam On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 2:16 PM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Thread Bust: WAS: stygme

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

Perhaps it depends whether one cares about a special case, common case, or all instances? And how many useful things can be proven for all instances without any specific semantics in mind. From: Friam On Behalf Of Jon Zingale Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 5:17 PM To: friam@redfish.com Subject:

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

""" An example of what Marcus is saying is that using the category definition of duality you can show that the dual space of the dual space is (is isomorphic to) the original space. That's easy to show without the added generality. """ Except for when that isn't true. Consider non-finite dimens

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

An example of what Marcus is saying is that using the category definition of duality you can show that the dual space of the dual space is (is isomorphic to) the original space. That's easy to show without the added generality. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

There is a formalism for discrete-event dynamical systems known as “bond graphs”. I haven’t read much about it, but Alan Perelson did some work on this when he was young and not famous. Bond graphs seem to be a slightly more flexible construction than hypergraphs, and they contain a subset tha

Re: [FRIAM] Thread Bust: WAS: stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

FWIW, the windows program I pointed you to is very broad, allowing program-free experimentation with all sorts of "complexity" stuff. Way easier. On 10/25/21 1:12 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote: > Thank you everybody, thank you Steve.  The netlogo model was exactly what I > was looking for. 

Re: [FRIAM] Thread Bust: WAS: stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

Nick, I put the standard Netlogo CA model set to rule 30 online here https://redfish.com/models/CARule30.html Hit setup or setup-random then go. You can play with the rule set on the left. Note as a binary bits, the CA number ranges from 0-255 depending on which bits are switched on. Play with t

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

I guess there weren’t any behaviorists around when Snowden was filling up USB drives. From: Friam On Behalf Of thompnicks...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 12:06 PM To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' Subject: Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] developm

Re: [FRIAM] Thread Bust: WAS: stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

Here's a kitchen sink program. I downloaded and tested it. https://softology.com.au/voc.htm Here's the results of my test for rule 30: https://youtu.be/sG-XZBta20M The highlighted rows in the middle were used to generate the horizontal banner at the bottom, which makes MIDI music out of tha

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

M We behaviorists think you all wear your hearts on your sleeves. n Nick Thompson thompnicks...@gmail.com https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels Sent: Monday,

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

Who cares what lurks in the hearts of men? Certainly not the behaviorist! From: Friam On Behalf Of thompnicks...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 11:56 AM To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' Subject: Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development Only I

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

Only I know your intentions, Frank. How many times to I have to tell you that. “Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men; the behaviorist # knows. HOO-HAA-HA-HA-HAA.“ # (adopting Glen’s practice) The introductory line from the radio ad

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

Thanks, Jon. I will read that catlab post. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 11:35 AM Jon Zingale wrote: > Thanks for understanding, Frank. Yes, the duality of vector spaces arises > as a particular instance with perf

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

Thanks for understanding, Frank. Yes, the duality of vector spaces arises as a particular instance with perfect duality only in the case of finite-dimensional vector spaces. Here is a page outlining a broader discussion: https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/duality Duality turns out to be a surprisingly

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

I found this to be helpful. The dual space of a vector space must be an instance of this category theory concept of dual. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_(category_theory) --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 10:04

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

I did not bully you, Jon. I asked you some questions whose answers I really don't know. In a good world those questions might lead you to insights that we can all benefit from. I am sorry you feel bullied. I know my intentions. Frank --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87

Re: [FRIAM] Thread Bust: WAS: stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

Thanks, Barry, Yours was the only suggestion, so I really appreciate it. Before I wrote the list, I did go to that website and poke around, but did not find what I was looking for. It puzzles me because it seems an easy program to make and I would expect that professors would the writi

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

Could be. But isn’t it obvious that writing a CA in some imperative language requires less hand wringing?What is the payoff? So much of this stuff ends up coming across as “Look you can do the thing you already knew how to do!” What can I do that I couldn’t do before? From: Friam On Be

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

Aha! I think the exercise here was to come up with a categorical statement. —Barry On 25 Oct 2021, at 10:19, Marcus Daniels wrote: It is hard to find the motivation to invest much in category theory when the practical considerations are left as an exercise to the reader. .-- .- -. - / .- -.-

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

(Sorry about the previous message that got sent before I wrote it) On 25 Oct 2021, at 11:36, Barry MacKichan wrote: > The domain of dual.space can be mapped to any other domain :-) Is this a theorem, or a koan? —Barry .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . FR

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

> > On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 5:00 PM Frank Wimberly > wrote: > I want to clarify what a dual space is. The domain of dual.space can be mapped to any other domain :-) ___ stephen.gue...@simtable.com CEO, Simtable http://www.s

Re: [FRIAM] Thread Bust: WAS: stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

You might want to try https://www.wolfram.com/language/. This could work since the “programming” needed is minima (given that you have the interpretating program). See also https://www.wolfram.com/language/11/new-visualization-domains/plot-cellular-automata.html. There seem to be free versions

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

Fine, but dual of a monad has a sort of trivial meaning; like a nicer “run” function. Whereas a continuous relaxation of a discrete optimization problem has semantics which are useful for accelerating an optimization. From: Friam On Behalf Of Jon Zingale Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 8:17 AM

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

Also, for those that are unfamiliar with how adjoint functors come into the picture, here is something I wrote for my website on adjoint functors for dynamical systems: https://jonzingale.github.io/dynamical-monads/dynamical.html The graphs produced directly via this code: https://github.com/jonz

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

Here, I am calculating 1 and 2 dimensional cellular automata as comonadic structures (dual to monadic structures*). Category theory put directly into practice. In particular, it took me some thought to build the notion of fiber and connection between fibers to generalize comonadically to 2D arrays.

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

I mean, a dual has a specific meaning in linear programming.Looks like that are some operations on 1-d and 2-d grids? From: Friam On Behalf Of Jon Zingale Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 7:53 AM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development """ It

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

""" It is hard to find the motivation to invest much in category theory when the practical considerations are left as an exercise to the reader. """ ... but not that hard: https://github.com/jonzingale/Haskell/blob/master/blinky/blinky_image/Comonad.hs Now if you will excuse me, I feel like I

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

It is hard to find the motivation to invest much in category theory when the practical considerations are left as an exercise to the reader. From: Friam On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2021 4:28 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM]

Re: [FRIAM] stygmergy, CA's, and [biological] development

What?? You right brain people are driving me nuts! 😁 --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 12:22 AM Stephen Guerin wrote: > On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 5:00 PM Frank Wimberly >> wrote: >> I want to clarify what a dual space