> > On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Leif Neland wrote:
> >
> > > [Regarding GPL]
Can we please get this discussion out of -hackers, and into somewhere more
apporipate like freebsd-advocacy.
--
Mike Pritchard
m...@freebsd.org or m...@mpp.pro-ns.net
To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
with "
> > On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Leif Neland wrote:
> >
> > > [Regarding GPL]
Can we please get this discussion out of -hackers, and into somewhere more
apporipate like freebsd-advocacy.
--
Mike Pritchard
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with "unsu
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Leif Neland wrote:
>
> > [Regarding GPL]
> > If a company sell or lease us a mailserver based on Linux, where we only
> > have smtp and pop3-access to, can we say "Hey, this is GPL'ed, give us the
> > source"?
>
> Yes, you can d
:I've been learning to program using shared memory and messages. As I write
:and debug, I often have to crash a running process which stalls. Of
:course, there is a problem with my code but that's all part of the
:learning process. The actual problem is that, after a few ctrl-c's, there
:isn't enou
I've been learning to program using shared memory and messages. As I write
and debug, I often have to crash a running process which stalls. Of
course, there is a problem with my code but that's all part of the
learning process. The actual problem is that, after a few ctrl-c's, there
isn't enough sp
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Leif Neland wrote:
>
> > [Regarding GPL]
> > If a company sell or lease us a mailserver based on Linux, where we only
> > have smtp and pop3-access to, can we say "Hey, this is GPL'ed, give us the
> > source"?
>
> Yes, you can
"Brian F. Feldman" wrote:
>
> On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, James Howard wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Mike Smith wrote:
> >
> > > It doesn't work like that; once it's been distributed with Linux it's
> > > no longer BSD-licensed, it's GPLed. They would still be unable to
> > > recover post-viral cha
:I've been learning to program using shared memory and messages. As I write
:and debug, I often have to crash a running process which stalls. Of
:course, there is a problem with my code but that's all part of the
:learning process. The actual problem is that, after a few ctrl-c's, there
:isn't eno
I've been learning to program using shared memory and messages. As I write
and debug, I often have to crash a running process which stalls. Of
course, there is a problem with my code but that's all part of the
learning process. The actual problem is that, after a few ctrl-c's, there
isn't enough s
"Brian F. Feldman" wrote:
>
> On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, James Howard wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Mike Smith wrote:
> >
> > > It doesn't work like that; once it's been distributed with Linux it's
> > > no longer BSD-licensed, it's GPLed. They would still be unable to
> > > recover post-viral ch
Kris Kennaway wrote:
>
> On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Nick Sayer wrote:
>
> > > That's not the point, though - if you want to use legacy computer
> > > platforms, you have to expect to use legacy passwords.
> >
> > The point is that you can do so AND have an increase in security of
> > communications. Is
Release and development of this driver has been delayed. It has been
impossible to get a stable -current platform to work with each time I've
tried to update my working -current tree over the last two weeks. I guess
I've picked the wrong days to update...
To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord
After seeing this discussion go on for just a wee bit too long, I have a
couple of questions for the armchair lawyers to answer. Has anyone ever
successfully enforced the GPL? (in other words, has anyone ever violated
it then been sued over it?) If not, how enforcable is it? From the length
of the
I think it helps to understand a routine in the kernel code if I know how
the routine is called and what parameters are being passed to it. To get
such information, I decide to simulate a panic whenever that routine is
called. For example, I want know how link() in vfs_syscalls.c is called
and wh
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Nick Sayer wrote:
> > That's not the point, though - if you want to use legacy computer
> > platforms, you have to expect to use legacy passwords.
>
> The point is that you can do so AND have an increase in security of
> communications. Is the result perfect? No. Is it better
Kris Kennaway wrote:
>
> On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Nick Sayer wrote:
>
> > > That's not the point, though - if you want to use legacy computer
> > > platforms, you have to expect to use legacy passwords.
> >
> > The point is that you can do so AND have an increase in security of
> > communications. I
Release and development of this driver has been delayed. It has been
impossible to get a stable -current platform to work with each time I've
tried to update my working -current tree over the last two weeks. I guess
I've picked the wrong days to update...
To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAI
Kris Kennaway wrote:
>
> On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Sheldon Hearn wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:42:48 MST, "Dave Walton" wrote:
> >
> > > If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> > > Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/).
> > > I'd love to se
Kris Kennaway wrote:
>
> On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Nick Sayer wrote:
>
> > Kris Kennaway wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Dave Walton wrote:
> > >
> > > > If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> > > > Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/).
After seeing this discussion go on for just a wee bit too long, I have a
couple of questions for the armchair lawyers to answer. Has anyone ever
successfully enforced the GPL? (in other words, has anyone ever violated
it then been sued over it?) If not, how enforcable is it? From the length
of the
I think it helps to understand a routine in the kernel code if I know how
the routine is called and what parameters are being passed to it. To get
such information, I decide to simulate a panic whenever that routine is
called. For example, I want know how link() in vfs_syscalls.c is called
and w
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Nick Sayer wrote:
> > That's not the point, though - if you want to use legacy computer
> > platforms, you have to expect to use legacy passwords.
>
> The point is that you can do so AND have an increase in security of
> communications. Is the result perfect? No. Is it bette
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Leif Neland wrote:
> [Regarding GPL]
> If a company sell or lease us a mailserver based on Linux, where we only
> have smtp and pop3-access to, can we say "Hey, this is GPL'ed, give us the
> source"?
Yes, you can do that; it's required for source to be "easily available"
in t
[Regarding GPL]
If a company sell or lease us a mailserver based on Linux, where we only
have smtp and pop3-access to, can we say "Hey, this is GPL'ed, give us the
source"?
Leif
To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Kris Kennaway wrote:
>
> On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Sheldon Hearn wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:42:48 MST, "Dave Walton" wrote:
> >
> > > If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> > > Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/).
> > > I'd love to s
Kris Kennaway wrote:
>
> On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Nick Sayer wrote:
>
> > Kris Kennaway wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Dave Walton wrote:
> > >
> > > > If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> > > > Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/)
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Leif Neland wrote:
> [Regarding GPL]
> If a company sell or lease us a mailserver based on Linux, where we only
> have smtp and pop3-access to, can we say "Hey, this is GPL'ed, give us the
> source"?
Yes, you can do that; it's required for source to be "easily available"
in
[Regarding GPL]
If a company sell or lease us a mailserver based on Linux, where we only
have smtp and pop3-access to, can we say "Hey, this is GPL'ed, give us the
source"?
Leif
To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Narvi wrote:
> > I got started on this, to the extent of storing the SRP data in the passwd
> > file as an additional password crypt() method (using my modified libcrypt
> > - see http://www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~kkennawa/crypt-990725.tar.gz),
> > but ran out of time. I hop
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Nick Sayer wrote:
> Kris Kennaway wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Dave Walton wrote:
> >
> > > If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> > > Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/).
> > > I'd love to see SRP integrated
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Dave Walton wrote:
>
> > If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> > Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/).
> > I'd love to see SRP integrated into the FreeBSD telnet/telnetd
Kris Kennaway wrote:
>
> On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Dave Walton wrote:
>
> > If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> > Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/).
> > I'd love to see SRP integrated into the FreeBSD telnet/telnetd.
>
> I got started on
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Sheldon Hearn wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:42:48 MST, "Dave Walton" wrote:
>
> > If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> > Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/).
> > I'd love to see SRP integrated into the FreeBSD
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999 10:38:17 -0700
Mike Smith wrote:
> > What the GPL does is require that full source for the program be included
> > with the program, and that full source, in my example, would include
> > a BSD-licensed XFS module.
>
> It also requires that the GPL be attached to that
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Narvi wrote:
> > I got started on this, to the extent of storing the SRP data in the passwd
> > file as an additional password crypt() method (using my modified libcrypt
> > - see http://www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~kkennawa/crypt-990725.tar.gz),
> > but ran out of time. I ho
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Nick Sayer wrote:
> Kris Kennaway wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Dave Walton wrote:
> >
> > > If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> > > Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/).
> > > I'd love to see SRP integrated
On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Dave Walton wrote:
> If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/).
> I'd love to see SRP integrated into the FreeBSD telnet/telnetd.
I got started on this, to the extent of storing the
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Dave Walton wrote:
>
> > If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> > Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/).
> > I'd love to see SRP integrated into the FreeBSD telnet/telnet
> On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:46:27 -0700
> Mike Smith wrote:
>
> > > So, if they were to simply put a BSD license on the code, then everyone
> > > would be happy, and there wouldn't be any of the dual-license confusion.
> >
> > It doesn't work like that; once it's been distributed with Linux i
The card came with the Dell Inspiron and is a 3com 3CCFEM656B.
Unfortunately, I don't think 3.2R is getting enough data to attempt an ID. I
saw an archived query just like my situation in the mail archives from a
year ago, but there was no reply.
Once I get past this, I can worry about the pccard.
Kris Kennaway wrote:
>
> On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Dave Walton wrote:
>
> > If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> > Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/).
> > I'd love to see SRP integrated into the FreeBSD telnet/telnetd.
>
> I got started o
On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:46:27 -0700
Mike Smith wrote:
> > So, if they were to simply put a BSD license on the code, then everyone
> > would be happy, and there wouldn't be any of the dual-license confusion.
>
> It doesn't work like that; once it's been distributed with Linux it's
> no lon
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Sheldon Hearn wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:42:48 MST, "Dave Walton" wrote:
>
> > If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> > Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/).
> > I'd love to see SRP integrated into the FreeBSD
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999 10:38:17 -0700
Mike Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > What the GPL does is require that full source for the program be included
> > with the program, and that full source, in my example, would include
> > a BSD-licensed XFS module.
>
> It also requires that the GPL
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Nick Sayer wrote:
> dannyman wrote:
> >
> > Uhmmm, what if we don't have a floppy drive?
>
> Do the old SunOS trick:
>
> 1. Boot single user.
>
> 2. dd the boot floppy image to your swap partition.
To really do the ScumOS trick, you should just assume that the swap
parti
Oh, that's incredibly cute. I've gotta remember that one.
--
--
Karl Denninger (k...@denninger.net) Web: childrens-justice.org
Tired of the broken divorce system in the United States and what it's doing
to our kids? SIGN the online petition for equal parental - and children's -
rights at the
On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Dave Walton wrote:
> If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/).
> I'd love to see SRP integrated into the FreeBSD telnet/telnetd.
I got started on this, to the extent of storing th
dannyman wrote:
>
> Uhmmm, what if we don't have a floppy drive?
Do the old SunOS trick:
1. Boot single user.
2. dd the boot floppy image to your swap partition.
3. Reboot, specifying wd(0,b)/kernel (or appropriate).
?
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Narvi wrote:
>
> On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Mark Murray wrote:
>
> > > Couldn't you work the code so it obtains all its' encryption functions
> > > from an external library, such as the system's libdes? That would let you
> > > export the code, since it doesn't provide any encryption functions itself,
Mark Murray wrote:
>
> > Couldn't you work the code so it obtains all its' encryption functions
> > from an external library, such as the system's libdes? That would let you
> > export the code, since it doesn't provide any encryption functions itself,
The commerce department says otherwise. It's
> On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:46:27 -0700
> Mike Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > So, if they were to simply put a BSD license on the code, then everyone
> > > would be happy, and there wouldn't be any of the dual-license confusion.
> >
> > It doesn't work like that; once it's been dist
The card came with the Dell Inspiron and is a 3com 3CCFEM656B.
Unfortunately, I don't think 3.2R is getting enough data to attempt an ID. I
saw an archived query just like my situation in the mail archives from a
year ago, but there was no reply.
Once I get past this, I can worry about the pccard
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, David Scheidt wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, James Howard wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Would it be legal to strip the BSD license of say, inetd and put a GPL on
> > > it? Many in the Linux community seem to think this is true but
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, James Howard wrote:
>
> >
> > Would it be legal to strip the BSD license of say, inetd and put a GPL on
> > it? Many in the Linux community seem to think this is true but I thought
> > that'd be just as bad as my BSD licensed G
On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:46:27 -0700
Mike Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > So, if they were to simply put a BSD license on the code, then everyone
> > would be happy, and there wouldn't be any of the dual-license confusion.
>
> It doesn't work like that; once it's been distributed with L
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Nick Sayer wrote:
> dannyman wrote:
> >
> > Uhmmm, what if we don't have a floppy drive?
>
> Do the old SunOS trick:
>
> 1. Boot single user.
>
> 2. dd the boot floppy image to your swap partition.
To really do the ScumOS trick, you should just assume that the swap
part
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, James Howard wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Mike Smith wrote:
>
> > It doesn't work like that; once it's been distributed with Linux it's
> > no longer BSD-licensed, it's GPLed. They would still be unable to
> > recover post-viral changes and reuse them in their own XFS pro
Oh, that's incredibly cute. I've gotta remember that one.
--
--
Karl Denninger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Web: childrens-justice.org
Tired of the broken divorce system in the United States and what it's doing
to our kids? SIGN the online petition for equal parental - and children's -
rights at the
> Why not just wait and bring the openssl library in?
Er - I do't think that will happen. Not for a while.
M
--
Mark Murray
Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org
To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
dannyman wrote:
>
> Uhmmm, what if we don't have a floppy drive?
Do the old SunOS trick:
1. Boot single user.
2. dd the boot floppy image to your swap partition.
3. Reboot, specifying wd(0,b)/kernel (or appropriate).
?
S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Mark Murray wrote:
> > Couldn't you work the code so it obtains all its' encryption functions
> > from an external library, such as the system's libdes? That would let you
> > export the code, since it doesn't provide any encryption functions itself,
> > and international peo
Narvi wrote:
>
> On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Mark Murray wrote:
>
> > > Couldn't you work the code so it obtains all its' encryption functions
> > > from an external library, such as the system's libdes? That would let you
> > > export the code, since it doesn't provide any encryption functions itself,
Mark Murray wrote:
>
> > Couldn't you work the code so it obtains all its' encryption functions
> > from an external library, such as the system's libdes? That would let you
> > export the code, since it doesn't provide any encryption functions itself,
The commerce department says otherwise. It'
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, David Scheidt wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, James Howard wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Would it be legal to strip the BSD license of say, inetd and put a GPL on
> > > it? Many in the Linux community seem to think this is true bu
On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Mike Smith wrote:
> It doesn't work like that; once it's been distributed with Linux it's
> no longer BSD-licensed, it's GPLed. They would still be unable to
> recover post-viral changes and reuse them in their own XFS product.
I heard somewhere that Linux was released und
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Brian F. Feldman wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, James Howard wrote:
>
> >
> > Would it be legal to strip the BSD license of say, inetd and put a GPL on
> > it? Many in the Linux community seem to think this is true but I thought
> > that'd be just as bad as my BSD licensed
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, James Howard wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Mike Smith wrote:
>
> > It doesn't work like that; once it's been distributed with Linux it's
> > no longer BSD-licensed, it's GPLed. They would still be unable to
> > recover post-viral changes and reuse them in their own XFS pr
> Why not just wait and bring the openssl library in?
Er - I do't think that will happen. Not for a while.
M
--
Mark Murray
Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org
To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Mark Murray wrote:
> > Couldn't you work the code so it obtains all its' encryption functions
> > from an external library, such as the system's libdes? That would let you
> > export the code, since it doesn't provide any encryption functions itself,
> > and international pe
On Fri, 13 Aug 1999, Mike Smith wrote:
> It doesn't work like that; once it's been distributed with Linux it's
> no longer BSD-licensed, it's GPLed. They would still be unable to
> recover post-viral changes and reuse them in their own XFS product.
I heard somewhere that Linux was released un
> DES, Mark, -hackers!
>
> How about the following patch. It adds an OPTIONAL_MANPATH directive,
> which is equivalent to the MANDATORY_MANPATH, except an absence of the
> directory is not considered an error.
Cool! Do it, I say!
M
--
Mark Murray
Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.or
> Couldn't you work the code so it obtains all its' encryption functions
> from an external library, such as the system's libdes? That would let you
> export the code, since it doesn't provide any encryption functions itself,
> and international people could use the international DES library (for
>
> DES, Mark, -hackers!
>
> How about the following patch. It adds an OPTIONAL_MANPATH directive,
> which is equivalent to the MANDATORY_MANPATH, except an absence of the
> directory is not considered an error.
Cool! Do it, I say!
M
--
Mark Murray
Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.o
> Couldn't you work the code so it obtains all its' encryption functions
> from an external library, such as the system's libdes? That would let you
> export the code, since it doesn't provide any encryption functions itself,
> and international people could use the international DES library (for
Nick Sayer wrote:
[...]
> SPK requires a separate database [...]
I meant SRP. SRP is based on SPEKE, which is what I got it
confused with.
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:42:48 MST, "Dave Walton" wrote:
> If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/).
> I'd love to see SRP integrated into the FreeBSD telnet/telnetd.
Cool, another non-exportable syste
Dave Walton wrote:
>
> If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/).
> I'd love to see SRP integrated into the FreeBSD telnet/telnetd.
Again, the problem is that there is administrative overhead - a separate
Nick Sayer wrote:
[...]
> SPK requires a separate database [...]
I meant SRP. SRP is based on SPEKE, which is what I got it
confused with.
S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:42:48 MST, "Dave Walton" wrote:
> If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/).
> I'd love to see SRP integrated into the FreeBSD telnet/telnetd.
Cool, another non-exportable syst
Dave Walton wrote:
>
> If you really want to work on an encrypted telnet, check out The
> Stanford SRP Authentication Project (http://srp.stanford.edu/srp/).
> I'd love to see SRP integrated into the FreeBSD telnet/telnetd.
Again, the problem is that there is administrative overhead - a separate
Ted,
from my limited experience with FreeBSD & ISA PnP cards (I'm fiddling around
with the 3COM Etherlink III driver) I would suggest that you need to write
a driver to talk to the card simply because you have to be able to retrieve
the card settings.
However I found the ISA PnP functionality extre
On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:51:10 MST, dannyman wrote:
> Uhmmm, what if we don't have a floppy drive?
Then you probably have a CDROM drive or a network interface, both of
which can be used to get sysinstall onto your machine. :-)
Ciao,
Sheldon.
To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
w
Ted,
from my limited experience with FreeBSD & ISA PnP cards (I'm fiddling around
with the 3COM Etherlink III driver) I would suggest that you need to write
a driver to talk to the card simply because you have to be able to retrieve
the card settings.
However I found the ISA PnP functionality extr
On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:51:10 MST, dannyman wrote:
> Uhmmm, what if we don't have a floppy drive?
Then you probably have a CDROM drive or a network interface, both of
which can be used to get sysinstall onto your machine. :-)
Ciao,
Sheldon.
To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with
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