Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

Tim 'avatar' Bartel wrote: > Hi, > > recently the report of the KnowPrivacy [1] study - a research project > by the School of Information from University of California in Berkeley > - hit the German media [2]. > > It came to the conclusion that "All of the top 50 websites contained > at least one w

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

Domas Mituzas wrote: > Do note, hu.wikipedia.org has external stats aggregator, > 'stats.wikipedia.hu', which is hosted on vhost102.sx6.tolna.net - and > all our traffic is sent there ( > http://hu.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Lastmodifiedat&oldid=4493139 > > - as well as few

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

We need tools to track user behavior inside Wikipedia. As it is now we know nearly nothing at all about user behavior and nearly all people saying anything about users at Wikipedia makes gross estimates and wild guesses. User privacy on Wikipedia is is close to a public hoax, pages are transfered

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

Forgot a link to an article which describes very well privacy on Wikipedia! ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_New_Clothes John at Darkstar skrev: > We need tools to track user behavior inside Wikipedia. As it is now we > know nearly nothing at all about user behavior and nearly all

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

John at Darkstar wrote: > We need tools to track user behavior inside Wikipedia. As it is now we > know nearly nothing at all about user behavior and nearly all people > saying anything about users at Wikipedia makes gross estimates and wild > guesses. > > User privacy on Wikipedia is is close to a

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 1:18 AM, Tim 'avatar' Bartel < wikipe...@computerkultur.org> wrote: > Hi, > > recently the report of the KnowPrivacy [1] study - a research project > by the School of Information from University of California in Berkeley > - hit the German media [2]. > The case of vlswiki i

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

2009/6/4 Pedro Sanchez : > What I propose is this being re-added would cause a removal of sysop bit due > to misuse of powers. > Don't we have a committee that checks privacy violations? The Foundation would surely have this power. - d. ___ foundati

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

The interesting thing is "who has interest in which users identity". Lets make an example, some organization sets up a site with a honeypot and logs all visitors. Then they correlates that with RC-logs from Wikipedia and then checks out who adds external links back to themselves. They do not need d

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

2009/6/4 Tim 'avatar' Bartel : > I think we should stop the current use of Google Analytics ASAP. Indeed. For the record, we've discussed Google Analytics before: * in July 2007, for pms.wiki - nothing implemented, I think * in October 2007, for en.wikibooks - implemented but then stopped. at

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

The Ombudsman Commission would likely be that group. Although their focus has traditionally been CheckUser, their purview actually covers any and all violations of the privacy policy. Here is one such case. At this moment, I agree: this sysop shouldn't be. -Mike On Thu, 2009-06-04 at 06:21 -0500,

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via thir d party companies

Domas Mituzas writes: > Do note, hu.wikipedia.org has external stats aggregator, > 'stats.wikipedia.hu', which is hosted on vhost102.sx6.tolna.net - and > all our traffic is sent there ( > http://hu.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Lastmodifiedat&oldid=4493139 > The stats aggregat

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

Hi, 2009/6/4 Tisza Gergő : > As for Doubleclick, that was probably a mistake on KnowPrivacy's part - maybe > they misidentified the aggregator (we use awstats) because Doubleclick uses a > similar method? If not, I would appreciate if they could serve with more > detailed information. Sad but tru

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

John at Darkstar wrote: > The interesting thing is "who has interest in which users identity". > Lets make an example, some organization sets up a site with a honeypot > and logs all visitors. Then they correlates that with RC-logs from > Wikipedia and then checks out who adds external links back t

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

Nikola Smolenski wrote: > Domas Mituzas wrote: > >> Do note, hu.wikipedia.org has external stats aggregator, >> 'stats.wikipedia.hu', which is hosted on vhost102.sx6.tolna.net - and >> all our traffic is sent there ( >> http://hu.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Lastmodifiedat&oldi

Re: [Foundation-l] Google Wave and Wikimedia projects

On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Ray Saintonge wrote: > Milos Rancic wrote: >> BTW, I am really skeptical about the idea that one large Internet >> company sues Wikimedia or MediaWiki developers for their patents. It >> would be a really bad PR for them. > > The history of lawsuits often shows that

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

Web bugs for statistical data are a legitimate want but potentially a horrible privacy violation. So I asked on wikitech-l, and the obvious answer appears to be to do it internally. Something like http://stats.grok.se/ only more so. So - if you want web bug data in a way that fits the privacy pol

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

>Surely this is something which should be possible to block at the MediaWiki level Maybe if we set up Google Analytics in the first place (done by the Foundation office) and never used it; the foundation could set up analytics for all projects with a super secure password, and never use it. Will th

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

David Gerard wrote: > Web bugs for statistical data are a legitimate want but potentially a > horrible privacy violation. > > So I asked on wikitech-l, and the obvious answer appears to be to do > it internally. Something like http://stats.grok.se/ only more so. > > So - if you want web bug data in

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

David Gerard wrote: > External web bug trackers should be removed without > exception. People who add them innocently, out of an understandable > interest in collecting aggregated information that would not violate the > privacy policy, should be directed to request and help with internal > solutio

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

Installing Google Analytics, even for our own purposes, is a bad idea. For one, it creates a link to google that is not necessarily what we want; it would be a big target for people to try and hack, and it presents tempting security risks on Google's end. Not to mention, as far as I know t

Re: [Foundation-l] Google Wave and Wikimedia projects

On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Milos Rancic wrote: > I really don't think > that Google, Facebook or Amazon are so stupid to sue WMF or anything > strongly connected with WMF because their business is strongly > connected to the perception of their behavior (by Internet users). They think it

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

Dan Rosenthal wrote: > Installing Google Analytics, even for our own purposes, is a bad idea. > For one, it creates a link to google that is not necessarily what we > want; it would be a big target for people to try and hack, and it > presents tempting security risks on Google's end. Not to

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Dan Rosenthal wrote: > Installing Google Analytics, even for our own purposes, is a bad idea. > For one, it creates a link to google that is not necessarily what we > want; it would be a big target for people to try and hack, and it > presents tempting security risk

[Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

[repost with proper subscribed mail address] Alex wrote: > The plain pageview stats are already available. > Erik Zachte has been doing some work on other stats. > > If I were to compile a wishlist of stats things: > 1. stats.grok.s

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 6:01 AM, Neil Harris wrote: > Surely this is something which should be possible to block at the > MediaWiki level, by suppressing the generation of any HTML  that loads > any indirect resources (scripts, iframes, images, etc.) whatsoever other > than from a clearly defined wh

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Aryeh Gregor wrote: > On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 6:01 AM, Neil Harris wrote: >> Surely this is something which should be possible to block at the >> MediaWiki level, by suppressing the generation of any HTML that loads >> any indirect resources (scripts,

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

2009/6/4 Jon : > Has apache/proxy level filtering been considered? Filtering for what? Javascript is executed client-side, ie. after the page has gone through the apache servers/proxies. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Uns

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Aryeh Gregor wrote: > On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Robert Rohde wrote: >> One idea is the proposal to install the AbuseFilter in a global mode, >> i.e. rules loaded at Meta that apply everywhere.  If that were done >> (and there are some arguments about whether

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

2009/6/4 Robert Rohde : > On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Aryeh Gregor > wrote: >> However, perhaps a default AbuseFilter could be installed telling >> admins that installing Analytics is a violation of Foundation policy >> and that they'll get desysopped if they continue.  That wouldn't stop >

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

2009/6/4 Unionhawk : > So how do you propose we enforce this? I'm thinking we need to prevent this > from happening in the first place. Analytics like this could pretty much > give checkuser powers to anybody! There's not that many places where this sort of thing could be implemented - would it

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

David Gerard wrote: > 2009/6/4 Robert Rohde : > >> Aryeh Gregor wrote: >> >>> However, perhaps a default AbuseFilter could be installed telling >>> admins that installing Analytics is a violation of Foundation policy >>> and that they'll get desysopped if they continue. That wouldn't stop

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

2009/6/4 Erik Zachte : > Considering web bugs: comScore also proposed such a scheme to us. > Apart from the question how much it would bring us that we don't or can't > figure out ourselves an overriding concern is privacy. So if we ran our own internal web bug mechanism, with due attention to p

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

Thomas Dalton wrote: > 2009/6/4 Jon : > >> Has apache/proxy level filtering been considered? >> > > Filtering for what? Javascript is executed client-side, ie. after the > page has gone through the apache servers/proxies. > Filtering to remove _all_ Javascript, other than references to

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

2009/6/5 Neil Harris : > Thomas Dalton wrote: >> 2009/6/4 Jon : >> >>> Has apache/proxy level filtering been considered? >>> >> >> Filtering for what? Javascript is executed client-side, ie. after the >> page has gone through the apache servers/proxies. >> > > Filtering to remove _all_ Javascript,

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

Neil Harris wrote: > John at Darkstar wrote: > >> The interesting thing is "who has interest in which users identity". >> Lets make an example, some organization sets up a site with a honeypot >> and logs all visitors. Then they correlates that with RC-logs from >> Wikipedia and then checks out

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

> Not to mention, as > far as I know the program is proprietary. This is an example of whats the real problem here; its not the security issues but the users political issues. > I'm not convinced that > we need to be tracking user behavior at this point in time, or that > the tradeoffs for

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

> One idea is the proposal to install the AbuseFilter in a global mode, > i.e. rules loaded at Meta that apply everywhere. If that were done > (and there are some arguments about whether it is a good idea), then > it could be used to block these types of URLs from being installed, > even by admin

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

On Jun 4, 2009, at 11:27 PM, John at Darkstar wrote: >> Not to mention, as >> far as I know the program is proprietary. > > This is an example of whats the real problem here; its not the > security > issues but the users political issues. I fail to see what that has to do with anything. I'm ju

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 6:20 AM, John at Darkstar wrote: >> User privacy on Wikipedia is is close to a public hoax, pages are >> transfered unencrypted and with user names in clear text. Anyone with >> access to a public hub is able to intercept and identify users, in >> addition to _all_ website

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

John at Darkstar wrote: >> One idea is the proposal to install the AbuseFilter in a global mode, >> i.e. rules loaded at Meta that apply everywhere. If that were done >> (and there are some arguments about whether it is a good idea), then >> it could be used to block these types of URLs from being

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

> > Is this enough? Of course not, there is so much more to learn. > > > Erik Zachte > There are a few very important missing items for the moment * Number of unique visitors * Number of page visits per visitors All should be analyzed on user roles, possibly also on different time spans (ho

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

> > Hmm? There's no reason to do anything like that. The AbuseFilter would > just prevent sitewide JS pages from being saved with the particular URLs > or a particular code block in them. It'll stop the well-meaning but > misguided admins. Short of restricting site JS to the point of > uselessnes

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

John at Darkstar wrote: >> Hmm? There's no reason to do anything like that. The AbuseFilter would >> just prevent sitewide JS pages from being saved with the particular URLs >> or a particular code block in them. It'll stop the well-meaning but >> misguided admins. Short of restricting site JS to t

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

Alex skrev: > John at Darkstar wrote: >>> Hmm? There's no reason to do anything like that. The AbuseFilter would >>> just prevent sitewide JS pages from being saved with the particular URLs >>> or a particular code block in them. It'll stop the well-meaning but >>> misguided admins. Short of rest

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

John at Darkstar wrote: > > Alex skrev: >> John at Darkstar wrote: Hmm? There's no reason to do anything like that. The AbuseFilter would just prevent sitewide JS pages from being saved with the particular URLs or a particular code block in them. It'll stop the well-meaning but