Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On 12/2/08, Milos Rancic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There is no article about the ultimate fate of the universe on sr.wp, > while there is no article about Grgur Branković on en.wp. Conclusion > about usefulness is obvious: for the most of pupils and their parents > the article about Grgur Branko

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote: > Jimmy Wales wrote: >> Geni wrote: >> > "The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage > people around the world " first line of the mission statement. By > actively promoting minority languages you lock more people into them > whi

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Tim Starling wrote: > Gerard Meijssen wrote: > >> It seems obvious to people who deal with small projects that usability is >> one of the big issue when it comes to the moribunt status of our small >> projects. The question I put to you, what are we going to do to first agree >> that this is an

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

I agree that creating an article should be much easier. Creating a wysiwyg editor would greatly facilitate that. It would also help if we promoted a culture where people are invited to create new articles. Many hard code wikipedians seem to have adopted the attitude that red links are ugly - so re

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/3 Yaroslav M. Blanter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> Only after a while did it become apparent that he was talking of >> the English Wikipedia. Some surprised librarian asked "are you >> now talking of the English Wikipedia?" His answer was something >> like "yes, the Swedish is almost complete

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

> Only after a while did it become apparent that he was talking of > the English Wikipedia. Some surprised librarian asked "are you > now talking of the English Wikipedia?" His answer was something > like "yes, the Swedish is almost completely useless" (for advanced > astronomy). In the undergrad

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Milos Rancic wrote: > A couple of years passed from the time when I realized that it > was my social bias. I think that in 2005 I've started to have > this kind of conversations: "Wikipedia is very useful for me!" > -- "You mean, Wikipedia in English?" -- "No, Wikipedia in > Serbian." At the

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Nathan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Milos - you wrote: "To be honest, I was thinking that the most useful > Wikimedian project in Serbia is English Wikipedia, but I was wrong. Serbian > Wikipedia is the most useful project, even it has ~30 times less articles > than

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Gerard Meijssen wrote: > Another way to approach the number would be; currently 80% of > our projects are failing. Improved usability may mean that this > number goes down to 60% maybe even 40%. This would be a big > improvement. Gerard, you're very stubborn, even when you're wrong. Look, I'm

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Gerard Meijssen wrote: > It seems obvious to people who deal with small projects that usability is > one of the big issue when it comes to the moribunt status of our small > projects. The question I put to you, what are we going to do to first agree > that this is an issue and then to deal with thi

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

> To further illustrate this, by closing down the failing 80% of WMF > projects, the remaining projects would be 100% successful. > > So please use statistics and metrics that make sense. > > Lars, have you read my message today in the other thread? I argue that dividing stuff by projects is not a

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, Another way to approach the number would be; currently 80% of our projects are failing. Improved usability may mean that this number goes down to 60% maybe even 40%. This would be a big improvement. I am not in favour of creating 100% success by excluding others until it is necessary and until

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Gerard Meijssen wrote: > When 80% are considered to be a failure, We might have failures, but "80% of projects" is not a useful metric. As we define new projects, such as the Swahili Wikinews, Swahili Wikiversity and Swahili Wikispecies, there is no end to the number of failures we might have

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, In the blogging I have done on this subject, I included screen shots of the CreatePage extension. One screen shot shows the extension without a change to the skin, the other shows the same extension on a UNICEF wiki. The screen shot was created while we were testing it on one of the ExtensionT

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Fajro wrote: > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:08 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively >> promoting them conflicts with Wikimedia's stated objectives. > > How? > > Do you edit wikipedia to give "Free Access To All Human Knowledge"

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Gerard, it would be good, if you could add links to all the extension pages in , which point to pages which use those extensions. There are links to two pages who use the Uniwiki package, but I was not able to find live examples of most of the sin

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On 12/1/08, Andrew Whitworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > To do the second task we would still want to create projects in > small languages so we could write learning resources to teach > people the big languages. I for one would enjoy learning resources targeted at those wishing to learn the "sma

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Erik Moeller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > What would be the technical requirements of this approach and what > would be its disadvantages? > It would require 1 bot and a copy of whichever wikis you wanted to work from. Just harvest all the links to commons and create those on commons as catego

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Michael Finney wrote: > Thank you for your comments. As a person who manages a small wiki project > and two language forks from it, I found some of the comments very > disturbing... almost frightening that such exist. Your comments re-affirm my > confidence in the Wikimedia Foundation and its purpo

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, When you are to build a system that connects Wikipedia / Wiktionary etc articles to Commons, you are building a system that relies on the articles to exist in the languages you want to get the data from. So it is restricted to the data that you have in the projects. To build this data, I would

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > People use the search feature on commons? > > I would assume they would click the link at the bottom of > > http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paard_(dier) and get taken to > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Equus_caballus?uselang=nl This is a valid point, especi

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, Yes they do. Why would there otherwise be a search box ? Thanks, GerardM 2008/12/1 geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 2008/12/1 Gerard Meijssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Hoi, > > The Dutch Wikipedia has passed 500.000 articles.. if a seven year old > Dutch > > kid would be looking for a "paard"

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Gerard Meijssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hoi, > The Dutch Wikipedia has passed 500.000 articles.. if a seven year old Dutch > kid would be looking for a "paard", the child would not get what we have in > store when it asks for a "horse" in stead.. People use the search feature on commons?

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, The Dutch Wikipedia has passed 500.000 articles.. if a seven year old Dutch kid would be looking for a "paard", the child would not get what we have in store when it asks for a "horse" in stead.. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=paard&go=Try+exact+match http://commons.wi

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Gerard Meijssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hoi, > There is no point in usability studies when the lessons learned are not > applied. At the Boston Wikimania there was another person who had done > studies on usability and MediaWiki. She even presented about it at the > "Hacker days"... The p

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

@Pedro :Yep, it's a two way interaction that I believe benefits all projects (sort of human interwiki) @Thomas:Echo would be the English word, thanks. "Ecco" however is also correct eEnglish, ref. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Guerilla_non-eEnglish_spelling_and_grammar_campaign. (Note to self: Ir

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, When usability improvements are to be implemented, it will change the dynamics of a project. It is easy to argue why the smaller projects need more content and more contributors. It is also easy to argue the same for the bigger and biggest projects. When a skin becomes available with a BIG but

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 1:44 PM, Finn Rindahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'd like to ecco (is that an eEnglish word..?) Michael Finney here. Most > people who engage them self in a small language wikimedia projects will > sooner or later participate in projects like en:wp and commons as well - and

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Finn Rindahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I'd like to ecco (is that an eEnglish word..?) Michael Finney here. I think you mean "echo" - to repeat what he said. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

> Don't forget Esperanto. Since when has Esperanto been a global language? It was a failed attempt at creating one, that's all. There is very little point in anyone learning it except for the fun of it (if you enjoy that sort of thing). ___ foundation-l

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Jimmy Wales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thomas Dalton wrote: >> It doesn't seem that anyone does... > > > I should add at the same time that I think that it is a good thing for > people to try to learn a relevant global language in addition to their > local languag

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

I'd like to ecco (is that an eEnglish word..?) Michael Finney here. Most people who engage them self in a small language wikimedia projects will sooner or later participate in projects like en:wp and commons as well - and thus both learn more about the "facts of reality" as well as communicating wi

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Jimbo: Thank you for your comments. As a person who manages a small wiki project and two language forks from it, I found some of the comments very disturbing... almost frightening that such exist. Your comments re-affirm my confidence in the Wikimedia Foundation and its purpose. Thanks. Mike On

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Geni wrote: >>> "The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage >>> people around the world " first line of the mission statement. By >>> actively promoting minority languages you lock more people into them >>> which is not consistent with trying to empower them. I wrote: >> I do

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Jimmy Wales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > geni wrote: >> 2008/12/1 Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:08 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively promoting them conflicts with Wikimedia's stated obje

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

geni wrote: > 2008/12/1 Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:08 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively >>> promoting them conflicts with Wikimedia's stated objectives. >> How? >> >> Do you edit wikipedia to gi

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, There is no point in usability studies when the lessons learned are not applied. At the Boston Wikimania there was another person who had done studies on usability and MediaWiki. She even presented about it at the "Hacker days"... Given the current opportunity, we should make the most of it.

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:39 PM, Gerard Meijssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > Hoi, > The software has been tested but not all extensions are considered ready > for > WMF production. I am establishing contacts with, among others, people at > UNICEF to make sure that we identify the outstanding issues

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Gerard Meijssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hoi, > The software has been tested but not all extensions are considered ready for > WMF production. I am establishing contacts with, among others, people at > UNICEF to make sure that we identify the outstanding issues carefully and > fix them effi

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Thanks for that, Gerard. In other terms I suppose my question would be this: You've identified a problem (usability, particularly in languages with the smallest or least technologically wealthy communities) and a partial solution (usability extensions developed by UNICEF). Your post, though, had th

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, The software has been tested but not all extensions are considered ready for WMF production. I am establishing contacts with, among others, people at UNICEF to make sure that we identify the outstanding issues carefully and fix them efficiently. Given that the CreatePage extension requires cha

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Ziko van Dijk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Anyone who doubts about the deplorable state of, well, many language > editions of Wikipedia, may have a look at this: > http://pdc.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gleeder&oldid=25822 Gleeder That's hardly a good example - we're never going to have a

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Nathan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Milos - you wrote: "To be honest, I was thinking that the most useful > Wikimedian project in Serbia is English Wikipedia, but I was wrong. Serbian > Wikipedia is the most useful project, even it has ~30 times less articles > than en.wp." Can I ask how you ar

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > WTF??? > > Some people really need read more about cultural diversity Bible belt America does not share a culture with say Perth or indeed much of New York. > and linguistic rights No such thing. Language can be a tool for control. With English this is har

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

GerardM - what steps need to be taken to begin testing and adapting the UNICEF usability extensions? Where would be a good project to begin - perhaps the Simple English Wikipedia, if that community is amenable? That its in English might make development easier, and a more usable interface might fit

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Anyone who doubts about the deplorable state of, well, many language editions of Wikipedia, may have a look at this: http://pdc.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gleeder&oldid=25822 Gleeder Measurements: WMF might: - reconsider the rules for allowing new language editions, with regard to the non fic

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Amir E. Aharoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Getting empowered" is not equal to "learning English". The two are not equal, to be sure. But, at the risk of sounding pugilistic, I will say that there probably is a positive correlation between knowing a more "popular

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > 2008/12/1 Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:08 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively >>> promoting them conflicts with Wikimedia's stated objectives. >> >> How? >>

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:19 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2008/12/1 Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:08 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively >>> promoting them conflicts with Wikimedia's stat

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:08 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively >> promoting them conflicts with Wikimedia's stated objectives. > > How? > > Do you edit wi

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:08 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively >> promoting them conflicts with Wikimedia's stated objectives. > > How? > > Do you edit wikipedia to give "Free Access

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, First, the call for improvement of the usability of the MediaWiki software is neutral to languages. It is easy to appreciate how the smaller projects will benefit. It is even easy to argue that the big projects will benefit. Second, why would the promotion of minority languages conflict with t

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:08 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively > promoting them conflicts with Wikimedia's stated objectives. How? Do you edit wikipedia to give "Free Access To All Human Knowledge" only to the educated el

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > 2008/12/1 Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> Wow, just wow... I feel really sick after reading some of the messages of >> this tread. >> >> Maybe the promotion of minority languages is not directly a goal of WMF but >> it's a must. > > No. You can argue for the tole

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Wow, just wow... I feel really sick after reading some of the messages of > this tread. > > Maybe the promotion of minority languages is not directly a goal of WMF but > it's a must. No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively promo

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Wow, just wow... I feel really sick after reading some of the messages of this tread. Maybe the promotion of minority languages is not directly a goal of WMF but it's a must. -- △ ℱajro △ IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lernu! - http://www.lernu.net Wikimedia Argentina - http://www.wikimedia.org.ar _

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, I am sure that you and I have learned to create new articles. In the usability study, people who were completely new to MediaWiki were asked to perform well described tasks. All testsubjects were unable to create new articles. They did nothing wrong, they just could not figure out how to do th

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 10:43 PM, Gerard Meijssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At Wikimania 2008 a presentation > was given by developers from UNICEF who had done proper usability studies. > They found that 100% of their newbie testsubjects were not able to create a > new article. They must have d

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hello Gerard, I agree with you, making MediaWiki more usable for beginners is more and more a pressing problem of ours. Ting Gerard Meijssen wrote: > Hoi, > Regularly I hear people say that Wikipedia is failing. When you then listen, > there are all kinds of good reasons why Wikipedia is failin

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, Interesting but off topic. At issue is that many parts exist that are known to make MediaWiki more usable. We need to make MediaWiki more usable and all it takes is to apply the lessons learned by applying the results of the usability studies performed by UNICEF. We only have to learn about t

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Christiano Moreschi hett schreven: > No it doesn't. The greatest tool for the education of those poor sods in the > 3rd world is the English Wikipedia, plus Spanish, French, etc. But mostly en. Well, from a totalitarian point of view, that would be the best. A totalitarian system gives precenden

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Milos Rancic wrote: > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:27 AM, Nikola Smolenski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Monday 01 December 2008 02:25:10 geni wrote: >>> 2008/12/1 Milos Rancic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: So, if you are able to make an internet pidgin-English project, it could work for younger. H

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:27 AM, Nikola Smolenski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Monday 01 December 2008 02:25:10 geni wrote: >> 2008/12/1 Milos Rancic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> > So, if you are able to make an internet pidgin-English project, it >> > could work for younger. However, en.wp is not wor

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Monday 01 December 2008 02:25:10 geni wrote: > 2008/12/1 Milos Rancic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > So, if you are able to make an internet pidgin-English project, it > > could work for younger. However, en.wp is not working. To be honest, I > > was thinking that the most useful Wikimedian project in

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

The point is that the quality of the vast majority of scientific-related articles even in English Wikipedia is laughable anyway. This is a much more general problem that the language division. Cheers Yaroslav > You also need to considered the argument beyond wikipedia. The ratio > of scientific p

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Sunday 30 November 2008 23:24:58 Christiano Moreschi wrote: > No it doesn't. The greatest tool for the education of those poor sods in > the 3rd world is the English Wikipedia, plus Spanish, French, etc. But > mostly en. Here's why. Did you know... ...that not everyone knows English?

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:25 AM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Serbian isn't a launguage. It's a dialect of the Central South Slavic > diasystem and one of the projects I had in mind when I brought up > smaller languages becoming POV forks. Saying that something is not a language is a strong cl

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Milos Rancic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > So, if you are able to make an internet pidgin-English project, it > could work for younger. However, en.wp is not working. To be honest, I > was thinking that the most useful Wikimedian project in Serbia is > English Wikipedia, but I was wrong. Serbian

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 11:48 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What is Tswana for mass spectrometry (looking at the translations for > that term across European languages is mildly amusing) ? There are > large areas where if you don't speak english you can't operate in that > area. There is no

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

; Odi profanum vulgus et arceo. > > > > > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:58:54 +0100 > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing > > > > Hoi, > > EMC2 is a company wh

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing Hoi, You did not get my point. The point is that inform ation in a native language is valuable by objective standards. Thanks, Gerard 2008/12/1 Christiano Moreschi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Have you forgotten tha

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

translations, our content can drastically deteriorate and become useless overnight if nobody's watching it. CM Odi profanum vulgus et arceo. > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:58:54 +0100 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, EMC2 is a company who sells storage solutions to big companies. I was at a presentation of their documentation manager. He informed his audience that the people who buy their products invariably state that they prefer the English documentation. They always get the translations as well. The ben

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/11/30 effe iets anders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Because bear in mind, especially in those languages, a complemented work of > human knowledge really adds something. In the large languages, we already > had encyclopediae and dictionaries of good quality. Wikipedia is better > sure, and has improv

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

I don't see why it matters. As long as there's /some/ content, there's content that can be poor quality. If anything, a wiki with virtually no community is more susceptible to quality problems. If someone intentionally inserts misinformation or libel into an article on the English Wikipedia, it wil

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, Given that UNICEF has done proper usability studies. Given that they have measured the success of the changes they made. We can be aware of the lessons that were learned in this way. We can adopt the changes and learn how it affects *our *smaller projects. When we cooperate with UNICEF, when w

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

ists. God knows what crap > > you find on smaller wikis with less editorial oversight. In the wake of the > > terrorist attacks in Bombay, this seems particularly relevant. > > > > Conclusion: let them all fail, bar the big ones. > > > > CM > > > > O

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

nclusion: let them all fail, bar the big ones. > > CM > > Odi profanum vulgus et arceo. > > > > > Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 23:04:43 +0100 > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

We should indeed care. One thing is that we should do whatever we can to help new projects grow to a selfsustainable size in terms of content and contributors. The second is that we must accept that a lot of new projects will fail, but that this is no reason not to go ahead with even more new proje

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

rom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing > > Hoi, > Small projects using MediaWiki for any of the languages that you indicate > are relevant are failing for exactly the same reaso

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, I wish for 80% of our projects to have the same problems as our bigger projects. It would be cool that we could compare the quality issues of the Xhosa Wikipedia or any of the bottom 80%. It takes content in order to talk about quality. The content is not there and consequently quality is not

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

gt; From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing > > Please, speak for yourself :) I *do* care, and if there is an easy and > definite solution, I'd love to embrace it. I think we should care about our > litt

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 11:11 PM, Christiano Moreschi < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Do we care that 80% > > of our projects are failing? > > Thanks, > > GerardM > > No. Why should we? Nobody actually reads shit like the albanian wikibooks > (doesn't matter if that doesn't exist, you get m

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Actually, the quality is a serious problem of all projects including en.wp. I thought it is obvious for everybody, but if not, I can provide more detail. Cheers Yaroslav > Please, speak for yourself :) I *do* care, and if there is an easy and > definite solution, I'd love to embrace it. I think w

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Please, speak for yourself :) I *do* care, and if there is an easy and definite solution, I'd love to embrace it. I think we should care about our little siblings, about the smaller languages as we call them, and support them if possible. I can only hope you were being extremely ironic :) Because

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Gerard Meijssen, 30/11/2008 21:43: > {{cn|80%}} > of our projects are failing? Nemo ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, Small projects using MediaWiki for any of the languages that you indicate are relevant are failing for exactly the same reason. Thanks, GerardM 2008/11/30 Christiano Moreschi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Do we care that 80% > > of our projects are failing? > > Thanks, > > GerardM >

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Do we care that 80% > of our projects are failing? > Thanks, > GerardM No. Why should we? Nobody actually reads shit like the albanian wikibooks (doesn't matter if that doesn't exist, you get my point). Such projects exist purely the monomaniacal benefit of the editor(s), not any readers

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, The presentation is online. I blogged about this extension in the past.. http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/search/label/Usability Thanks, GerardM 2008/11/30 Thomas Dalton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > At Wikimania 2008 a presentation > > was given by developers from UNICEF who had done p

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

> At Wikimania 2008 a presentation > was given by developers from UNICEF who had done proper usability studies. > They found that 100% of their newbie testsubjects were not able to create a > new article. I wasn't there, so didn't see the presentation. Did they detail the problems these test subje

[Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, Regularly I hear people say that Wikipedia is failing. When you then listen, there are all kinds of good reasons why Wikipedia is failing. Quality is low, issues with living persons, pov pushers a long litany of woes are all grounds to predict the imminent demise of Wikipedia. While all these