> did you use print encyclopedias as a kid?
Oh yes. I especially loved #6 of Lithuanian Soviet Encyclopedia
http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaizdas:Lietuviskoji_tarybine_enciklopedija_resize.jpg
- L* had airplanes and M* had automobiles ;)
B* had whales (hence my obsession with Exploding Whale art
Hi!
I hereby congratulate Wikimedia Foundation switching domains from
pro-SOPA Godaddy to MarkMonitor.
Not that many people know, but MarkMonitor is ahead of the industry in
anti-piracy fight:
* They have systems to do real-time content filtering for ISPs, that
stop peer-to-peer piracy.
* They p
Hi!
[...]
> I'd say (nearly?) everyone was pretty surprised when I sort of hemmed
[...]
Mark wrote it very much the way I feel about it - I talk to lots of people, and
they've been donating in early days or few years ago, but they stopped donating
lately - and they are still reading our annual
Hi!
we recently did some practice on italian wikipedia, are we going to protest IP
legislation in US by taking down English Wikipedia?
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/10/disastrous-ip-legislation-back-%E2%80%93-and-it%E2%80%99s-worse-ever
Domas
___
Short answer: no
Long answer:
we have uneven chances for different pages to show up.
It is based on the idea that every page gets inserted into discreetly random
position in a certain linear space, so you end up with [[Poisson
distribution]], which from a distance seems to return stuff randoml
> The only thing we truly could do is restore read access. But if the
> it.wikipedia community really wants to strike, there's very little we
> can do to stop them. :)
I sure agree with that. There're plenty of ways to inflict pain without
terminating the service entirely.
Editor strike means no
> Regardless, what's done is done, for
> the moment.
Except that WMF as steward of the open information can roll any of that
blackout crap back.
Primary mission is spreading the knowledge, and now it.wikipedia obviously
fails at it.
Domas
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> For starters, they weren't happy with the server maintenance by WMF. They
> couldn't get essential components deployed for 2 years or so.
for every wikinews pageview there're 1600 english wikipedia pageviews.
oh, and 60% of wikinews pageviews come from bots (wikipedias are at around 10%
bot t
Hi!
> Here's the conclusion I've come to though. We need to get the software
> good enough, and simple enough, that it is firmly in the background.
OK!
> Mediawiki is like an old DOS computer that constantly drags you into
> programing mode, particularly if you fork.
Yes, especially if you actu
Hi!
> That technical staff have effective power to decide whether a fork is
> justified is reason enough.
If you tried reading more of the message than just From: header, you wouldn't
write this bullshit.
The whole topic is about ease of forking, and:
a) Member of technical staff did not alle
> What was it that lasted only a minute, Chris?
Vandalism, probably. I've read an article that vandalism lasts about a minute!
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Hi!
> I'm told volunteers are capable of editing wiki pages and posting to mailing
> lists. I haven't been able to independently verify this, though.
I'm told that some volunteers can be extremely obnoxious too.
Domas
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Hi!
> Domas your responses are not helpful at all. You are simply stirring the
> pot to no point. Please stop.
You forgot to tell if all of my responses or just some, and if there's really
no point at all, or there might be some.
Anyway, thanks for this helpful contribution!
Domas
___
Hi!
> Domas, why so defensive?
I'm contrarian in this case :)
> unfeasible because of the work involved, but you can probably say that
> without all the combative snark.
Well, as with every downtime, there are way more issues* that end up uncovered
and have to be looked at, and yet largest em
> Wikipedia going down without a temporary explanation page is roughly of the
> same scale as apple.com going down with no explanation, google.com going
> down with no explanation, microsoft.com going down with no explanation, and
> so on.
WHOAH THERE IS QUITE SOME SELF ENTITLEMENT THERE.
Microso
Hi!
> That's... completely missing the point. Yes the specific errors faced were
> unexpected or unforseen, BUT they were a* direct result* of the maintenance
> between 13:00 and 14:00. I am simply passing on the feeling of our
> readership; which was that the situation was badly communicated to t
Hi!
> The maintenance was planned, downtime was noted as possible. An error
> message that reflects that seems, frankly, a good idea.
There're lots of great ideas around the world, feeding the hungry and curing
the cancer among them.
> The response to what I thought to be a helpful suggestion
Hi!
> Huh? The downtime was expected during 13:00 and 14:00 UTC, or at least there
> was an email warning of such things the day before... hardly unplanned or
> unknown.
there's a bit of a difference between maintenance window and expected downtime
during it.
Domas
_
>
> As you can see it refers to some unknown error. In this case the
> maintentance was known and* pre-planned* for several days.
technically this was unknown problem :)
> A lot of people were confused by the outage and the error page was unhelpful
> to them. This could have been mitigated simp
> priority task being to get the site working again. Maybe at some time
> in the future, we will have enough 24/7 sysadmin manpower that we can
> respond to any unplanned downtime in the way you suggest. But we don't
> have that capability just yet.
In future we will have five nines availability
> For all we know we have servers in Hong Kong.
not that I'm aware of :)
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> if this is true, then we should
> implement a better solution for foundation-level discussions in other
> major language families.
I nominate SJ to translate all emails. I saw him do that before, he's good!
Brion would suggest Esperanto though. You two will have to fight it out.
Domas
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> The '140 characters only' blogging platforms could probably implements
> their own short syntax to support popular sites.
140 character blogging platforms could allow more characters.
at wikipedia we support larger pages than 140 bytes, for example.
Domas
_
Hi!
> I don't think any of the fundraising banners that ran made it
> substantially harder to access the information that people were coming
try reading text when you got subversively blinking banner at the top of it.
:-)
Domas
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Erik,
> happy new year to you and to everyone! :-)
Thanks for greetings, and even more thanks for such an effort in trying to
address the concerns.
> Asking a reader to make a donation is by definition a distraction from
> what they came to do.
Well, there's a single "maybe he will consider
Hi!
> I need not imply that the WMF depends on money.
Or rather, "certain parts of WMF depends on certain amounts of money".
> It's kind of obvious, isn't it?
It is not obvious how much money is "urgent", more urgent than the need to read
the article.
It is not obvious how much money is s
now that we have blinking banners, I'm sure we should try out how full-screen
banners work, with "click to go to wikipedia".
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>
> I think that's the only possible error response that you can deliver
> from a Squid ACL. But a deny_info could be useful. Maybe Domas didn't
> get up to the deny_info section in the manual ;)
Would make a good joke, eh?! :)
Domas
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> Like you say, though, it's definitely a technical issue to be taken up
> elsewhere.
Where you will be told that this is 'working as intended'. & is usually
sent in URLs by broken clients, so we block them as early as possible.
Domas
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Hi!
> Much less people notice that among the most popular Wikipedia is the only
> one that doesn't sell them anything
We don't sell, we just hold reference material at ransom.
Don't be too ecstatic, it comes with a cost.
As for Alexa, it has the list polluted by multiple mega-company propertie
On Dec 8, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Mike Dupont wrote:
> Sounds like we need to have a notable search engine that includes only
> "approved and allowed" sources, that would be nice to have.
Sounds like a great community project, Wiki Search!
Domas
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Hi!
> But, should we care at all if Amazon hosts 1:1 content mirror and
> gives to us some money?
Maybe.
It is probably first time our content is dumped into internet by internet
property that has high(er?) search engine rankings, so users may be sent to
different experience than one we try t
Hi!
> Personally, I think that this is a good opportunity to get money from
> payed ads. It is not even on Wikimedia servers.
I don't think that any ads-supported 1:1 content mirror (I don't see much added
value atm, we have some kind of book source support already) is any good
opportunity to g
> Those with the passwords do whatever they feel like
> and are accountable to no one?
yup!
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Hi!
> It's isn't my policy, it's our policy.
Who is 'we', whom do you represent? :-)
> If you don't know to what I refer, then perhaps you can read up on it.
You didn't tell what you represent and what policy you talk about, I don't know
where to read about it.
> As far as citing the archiv
Hi!
> Go on record, then I'll cite you.
> An email list is not a citable source, per our policy.
Why would I care about your policy? Which policy is 'our' policy? Why does it
apply to anything here?
> However a page on the server is citable.
> So put your reputation up for view, then you'll be
> Humans are not citable sources, per our policy.
This isn't Wikipedia, this is Wikimedia. You can cite me, if you want.
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> The sampled 1/1000 squid logs can be used for statistical purposes, such as
> page view stats. Someone more techy can answer that better than I can, if
> the samples include IP addresses that could be used w/ geoip for geographic
> analysis. (I think perhaps not)
we do aggregations on full samp
Hi!
> There aren't any raw logs?
Closest to raw log we may have is 1/1000 sample, that we keep sometimes for
noticing obvious things like DDoS or software feature gone mad.
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Hi!
> Each web server, of which the WMF has a few, collects details on the
> behaviour of IPs, in logs. Those logs can be and probably have been
> requested by
> certain government officials, most likely for the purpose of tracking down
> who is behind a certain "Bad" posting to a BLP.
We lo
Hi!
> you have mentioned that provider can give logs to government, probably
> also wikipedia must give its logs to government, if requested, is not
> it?
Wikipedia cannot give logs to government, as it has none.
> users cannot request in provider's official web forum to make dynamic
> ip or nat
Hello,
> should not web server logs (of requests) be published?
which intelligence service are you representing?
there are hourly page view statistics somewhere out there, so most of data is
already out, drilling in more would mean violating privacy.
and no, I don't see this as a per-project
Hello,
I did an analysis of advertisement space used on Google, Facebook and
Wikipedia. I measured banners first - Wikipedia had 250k pixels (okok, my
screen is large :), Google had 60k pixels, Facebook had 40k.
I applied a multiplier of 2 for Wikipedia image, because it's ability to scan
your
> We did that with Uncyclopedia. Wikimedia hosted it until Wikia was formed.
what?
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Hi, wiki-list!
> No ethics here then.
Excuse me, what is your complaint?
I don't really get the point you are trying to make.
There are few simple things, but apparently you have problems to grasp them :)
1. Your readership data is not revealed to third parties. Your point "if a UK
ISP pub
> The issue is when someone aggregates the data and associates with an
> individual, and then makes publishes it. Or uses that data to make
> public statements about a user.
we don't associate data with individual, we associate data with pseudonym.
otoh, whatever people talk here about aggreg
Hi!
> The privacy policy is clear. Your number of edits is public. And it can be
> published in aggregated forms by other uses. And if you edit Wikipedia, you
> accept the Privacy Policy. Also, on the top of the Privacy Policy page you
> can read:
Foundation privacy policy is what kind of informa
Hi!
> Only wanted to notify you that the Acehnese Wikipedia
> have plans about boycotting Wikipedia
Thats ACE!
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Hi!
> I hope you mean "Vox" rather than "Fox." I don't think "Fox" currently has
> any connection to "Deus."
Tell that to Rupert Murdoch
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>
> I welcome many members of the Wikimedia staff joining us in Gdansk but
> PLEASE do not hide in a VIP environment like happened on previous
> Wikimanias.
I hereby find this grossly insulting.
Not spending time with Gerard does not mean that someone is hiding from
everyone else.
I found staf
Hi!
> What a pity they are not similar to old sewing machines, old vacuum
> cleaners, old electric ovens, or old tables or old chairs.
I'm sorry that I have to say that (I really feel sorry!), but you sir
are an idiot, and that explains your old PC problem too, a bit, in a
way. I'm sorry if you a
Hi!
> Yes. So the topic for a talk on the foundation list would be : should
> Wikipedia stop to support older computers or older web browsers like
> Internet Explorer 6 ?
Older web browsers - maybe, if the cost to maintain becomes too high.
In many cases definite answers are quite difficult, as t
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Teofilo wrote:
> What would you think about an automobile repair shop, when you
> discover after you try the car again that you can no longer remove the
> key and stop the engine ?
that perpetuum mobile exists, I'd be grateful for it.
there're some better ways to
kthx
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Gerard Meijssen
wrote:
> Hoi,
> An important thread has been derailed by an off topic comment. For your
> information, and for the somanyth time, top posting comes easy when you use
> a modern tool like GMAIL. It automatically hides whatever came before. Thi
> Why is the team chosen to target specifically the US? I am not sure I am
> comfortable with this choice.
Because in Russia team targets you :) Oh wait, this isn't slashdot.
Let's hope this is like usability project, where US-based operations are being
expanded onto other cultures/nations/count
yup, especially John Doe!
On Mar 31, 2010, at 2:34 AM, Mike.lifeguard wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 37-01--10 03:59 PM, John Doe wrote:
>> I agree top posting tends to be the most effective method for handling
>> mailing lists
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 6:5
Hello,
> The question is, how do we thank the company that has everything?
We can thank them by providing better content to everyone. That is both what
they and us want.
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William,
> Domas, I am disappointed with the frequent disrespect with which you
> treat colleagues, as exemplified by your responses here to Tyler and
> Philippe.
I respect Philippe - we had lots of great time and discussions in the past -
and I hope he remembers that (including all my thought
Hey Philippe,
> That's pretty snarky, Domas. There was a legitimate question there.
:-) Did community strategy members come up with this conclusion, or you had to
involve external consultants?!
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Hello,
> Kids at my school are criticizing the heck out of your Foundation
Good to know you have plenty of people you can talk to.
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Hi!
> That is old news, I have stopped working on it,
> not because I dont think it was a good idea, but because phc was not
> working. They have cancelled the project.
Poor you. You wasted your bandwidth on project that was doomed :(
> I was looking into roadsend recently,
I was too! But they'
Hi!
> http://www.phpcompiler.org/lists/phc-general/2009-February/000894.html
Great progress!
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Hi,
> This is exactly what I was working on :
Where can we read more about your work?
Domas
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Hello dear people,
there's something very very very special about the video at
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2010/01/19/ctw.connector.jimmy.wales.cnn
You can definitely see that organization just had a critical shift. :-)
Domas
P.S. You look great! :)
__
> . This
> peak rate was achieved while serving roughly 91,725 requests per
> second.
I don't think this is good number - as there were around 9000 requests-a-second
handled by a separate server (That is not included in request stats).
Also the increase in bandwidth could be because were blacklis
On Jan 8, 2010, at 7:02 PM, David Gerard wrote:
> http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/07/wikibumps.html
Currently we're in talks with WM-DE, so they will provision some storage for
long-term archives of raw data, and we will probably add image view statistics
then. Good stuff, right?
Domas
_
Erik,
> The Craig Newmark banner is currently running at 20% on the English
> Wikipedia.
How much known is Craigslist outside of US, in other English speaking
countries, or countries where English is used as second/primary language on the
web? :)
Domas
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Hi!
> In cold countries, energy can have two lives : a first life making
> calculations in a computer, or transforming matter (ore into metal,
> trees into books), and a second life heating homes.
One needs to build-out quite static-energy-output datacenters (e.g. deploy 10MW
at once, and don't
Dude, I need that strong stuff you're having.
> Let me sum this up, The basic optimization is this :
> You don't need to transfer that new article in every revision to all
> users at all times.
There's not much difference between transferring every revision and just some
'good' revisions.
> T
Hi!!!
> 1. Php is very hard to optimize.
No, PHP is much easier to optimize (read - performance oriented refactoring).
> 3. Even python is easier to optimize than php.
Python's main design idea is readability. What is readable, is easier to
refactor too, right? :)
> 4. The other questions a
> A distributed backend is a nice idea anyway - imagine a meteor hitting
> the Florida data centres ...
give me that stuff you all just had, I want it too.
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Dear Gregory,
> (2) That Alexa rankings reflect "impact in the world". If you've got
> 300,000 living persons checking their biography every day for
> defamation,
> I'm sure the Alexa rankings are going to notice that.
only 11% of English Wikipedia article views are about Living People.
You f
Hi!
> And you'll still have commit access, so I
> hope to keep seeing "Revert rXXX, totally broken"
Don't be so harsh on Brion, not every commit of his has been totally
broken :-)
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On Sep 16, 2009, at 6:23 PM, Samuel Klein wrote:
> Looks like a Nov spike, but such a steady rise in year to year traffic
> that the next Jan is already higher... was that similar last year?
yes, no, perhaps. always treat those graphs with grain of salt, it
could be simply additional objects
>
> Cool; what's the best way to observe the high water mark, and how the
> systems are holding up?
it isn't 2007 or 2006 ;-)
http://wiki.wikked.net/wiki/Wikimedia_statistics/Yearly
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Hello!
> And that has proven to be a huge misjudgment.
Which didn't entirely depend on us. We're a young organization, we
depend on lots of external influences. You going and pointing fingers,
without trying to understand, that there were reasons to behave in
that way, isn't constructive.
Hi!
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but here's what I can gather: Total
> spending was
> $1.7 million less than budgeted. Tech spending was $1.7 million
> less than
> budgeted. And $1.7 million was sitting in the bank accounts at the
> end of
> the fiscal year.
We did not spend on hardware, be
Gregory,
> Here are at least a dozen for you, Domas:
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=%22%241.7+million%22+technology+wikimedia+%22sue+gardner%22
Oh wow, I got my chance to read Valleywag, probably that should be the
major point of insight for all the efficient non-profit governan
Hi!
> I'll believe it when I see it.
;-)
> AFAICT, the dumps still don't work, and you
> still haven't hired a new CTO.
Dumps work better, and there's work done to get a new CTO.
> 1.7
How was that budgeted? Which year? Can you point me at that unspent
software development budget number?
>
Hello Gregory,
> I was sort of surprised to learn today that Mediawiki software has
> had 37
> security holes identified:
Why would you be surprised? It is web software, that allows _most_
flexibility for its users, you can expect most problems because of
that, especially in XSS area.
On t
Hi!
> Right...where can I go to download the full history English
> Wikipedia dump?
It is being done!
> Still doesn't work. And yes, it needs an executive level decision,
> and it
> needs a kick in the ass from the board to get the executive level to
> make
> that decision.
That work is
Hello,
> Given the fact that no candidate for the board seems to have
> campaigned prominently for this issue in this year's elec-
> tion and it does not even seem to have been mentioned in the
> two before, I do not see why the board should have decided
> otherwise.
You poor souls, always willin
Gerard,
> Remember, the Signpost is an en.wp publication. It is not really the
> place
> to announce such things.
it is up for Signpost editors if they want to include it or not. Not
your business :)
BR,
Domas
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> The move itself will be
> newsworthy and I'm sure there will be a press release about it, but it
> hasn't happened yet.
As Wikimedia (or.. Wikipedia!) office address isn't publicly announced
or published, the press release would be fantastic:
"Wikipedia is moving from undisclosed location off
> A high turnover rate would indicate a lot of people joining and
> leaving,
> instead of long-term volunteers.
ah! that! no, site is operated by same people as five years ago (with
brilliant exception of search), few people left during that time,
because of various reasons.
some volunteers
Hi!
> I have a question on this for the tech team: as a rule, do you have a
> high turnover of volunteers on the sysadmin ...
turn-what?
Jens is building a house or something, if that was your question.
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Hi!
> And I have to assume that's primarily due to your
> efforts.
>
> Thanks Brion. Excellent work.
Yes, thank you Brion! :)
Domas
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On Jun 30, 2009, at 3:13 AM, Aude wrote:
> Henrik's Wikipedia article traffic statistics tool does not indicate
> copyright or license status, so it's not clear if I can include a
> chart on a
> Wikipedia page. Does anyone know the license status for the charts?
base data is in public domain
Hi!
> Couldn't the stats job you want run on toolserver?
Really, this isn't much of foundation-l issue - we have been
collecting and providing detailed article viewership statistics for
over a year.
People are building various applications on top of that data, like
http://wikirank.com/en/Jim
Hi!
> Assuming you're not taking this out of context, please explain the
> difference between how it works and my conception of how it works.
Sorry, I misread your statement. I took "Volunteer admins" as
"Volunteer sysadmins" - my greatest apology.
BR,
Domas
__
Hello,
> If I were to compile a wishlist of stats things:
> 1. stats.grok.se data for non-Wikipedia projects
the raw data is available, anyone can build anything like that, as
long as they have resources. I've suggested Henrik to opensource his
software, but probably it suffers from "not nice
Hi!
> I believe there was no such claim, if anything, it was pointed out
> that
> setting up the stats engine didn't give access to information that
> was not
> accessible before by the Checkusers (even if logged), and that most
> fears of
> data being handled by the wrong hands are mitigate
Hi!
> Are the developers lawyers?
IANAL.
> A developer claiming something has an
> unwanted privacy issue is very different from making claims about
> something being a legal issue on the behalf of Foundation. Simply
> don't
> do it.
I failed to phrase what I wanted to write you in a way, tha
Hi,
> I think we should stop the current use of Google Analytics ASAP.
I'm usually proponent of indefinite bans to people who do this, but
there are others who want milder approaches :-)
Indeed, this is violation of our privacy policy, and never should be
allowed. Thanks for headsup.
Do note
Hello,
> So let us be realistic.. Even in Wikipedia you will not have
> thousands of
> people editing *at the same time* in a document.
But documents have tens of thousands of revisions, still.
> In your reply you mention javascript, is that based on reading
> about the "embed" API ??
um, di
Hi,
> On a different note, the first code to bring MediaWiki content in a
> Wave
We should have fun-l@ for conversations like this.
First of all, if any of you who are interested in wave-ization of teh
internet, go join the wave community and push the standard towards
lazy on-demand loadi
> "Google and its affiliates hereby grant to you a perpetual, worldwide,
> non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable (except as stated
> in this License) patent license for patents necessarily infringed by
> implementation of this specification."
so, if you want to extend the specificati
> It's a great app,
look at it the other way! finally someone implemented LiquidThreads!
Cheers,
Domas
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Tomasz,
> To be able bring what captivates me on a daily basis back to the
> city I
> was born and grew up in makes happy as can be.
Heeheee, :-) And I hereby declare my Green Wikimania, I'll carpool to
get there!
Cheers,
--
Domas Mituzas -- http://dammit.lt/ -
Gregory Kohs is attacking our
practices, we should do something".
Though, as much as you don't realize what we're doing, you probably
won't realize too much of anything else, so... why bother.
Go, better travel a bit outside US, then you'll either get some more
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