Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, In the blogging I have done on this subject, I included screen shots of the CreatePage extension. One screen shot shows the extension without a change to the skin, the other shows the same extension on a UNICEF wiki. The screen shot was created while we were testing it on one of the ExtensionT

Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikitech-l] FlaggedRevs status/news?

Thanks Gerard. Dovi --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Gerard Meijssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Gerard Meijssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] [Wikitech-l] FlaggedRevs status/news? To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 2:54 AM Hoi

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Fajro wrote: > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:08 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively >> promoting them conflicts with Wikimedia's stated objectives. > > How? > > Do you edit wikipedia to give "Free Access To All Human Knowledge"

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Gerard, it would be good, if you could add links to all the extension pages in , which point to pages which use those extensions. There are links to two pages who use the Uniwiki package, but I was not able to find live examples of most of the sin

Re: [Foundation-l] foundation-l Digest, Vol 57, Issue 8

There are 732 editable wikis on Wikimedia and nearly all of them are active in some way. Just a year ago, these wikis were getting hit by loads of spambots and malbots and barely any community to fight them, but since then we have seen changes in smaller wikis. Apart from maybe 15-20 wikis, I can s

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On 12/1/08, Andrew Whitworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > To do the second task we would still want to create projects in > small languages so we could write learning resources to teach > people the big languages. I for one would enjoy learning resources targeted at those wishing to learn the "sma

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Erik Moeller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > What would be the technical requirements of this approach and what > would be its disadvantages? > It would require 1 bot and a copy of whichever wikis you wanted to work from. Just harvest all the links to commons and create those on commons as catego

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Michael Finney wrote: > Thank you for your comments. As a person who manages a small wiki project > and two language forks from it, I found some of the comments very > disturbing... almost frightening that such exist. Your comments re-affirm my > confidence in the Wikimedia Foundation and its purpo

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, When you are to build a system that connects Wikipedia / Wiktionary etc articles to Commons, you are building a system that relies on the articles to exist in the languages you want to get the data from. So it is restricted to the data that you have in the projects. To build this data, I would

Re: [Foundation-l] EN Wikipedia Editing Statistics

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Nathan wrote: > Wow, someone had more than 10,000 edits in February of 2002. That's probably "Conversion script". :) - -- brion -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.or

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > People use the search feature on commons? > > I would assume they would click the link at the bottom of > > http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paard_(dier) and get taken to > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Equus_caballus?uselang=nl This is a valid point, especi

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, Yes they do. Why would there otherwise be a search box ? Thanks, GerardM 2008/12/1 geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > 2008/12/1 Gerard Meijssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Hoi, > > The Dutch Wikipedia has passed 500.000 articles.. if a seven year old > Dutch > > kid would be looking for a "paard"

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Gerard Meijssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hoi, > The Dutch Wikipedia has passed 500.000 articles.. if a seven year old Dutch > kid would be looking for a "paard", the child would not get what we have in > store when it asks for a "horse" in stead.. People use the search feature on commons?

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, The Dutch Wikipedia has passed 500.000 articles.. if a seven year old Dutch kid would be looking for a "paard", the child would not get what we have in store when it asks for a "horse" in stead.. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=paard&go=Try+exact+match http://commons.wi

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Gerard Meijssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hoi, > There is no point in usability studies when the lessons learned are not > applied. At the Boston Wikimania there was another person who had done > studies on usability and MediaWiki. She even presented about it at the > "Hacker days"... The p

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

@Pedro :Yep, it's a two way interaction that I believe benefits all projects (sort of human interwiki) @Thomas:Echo would be the English word, thanks. "Ecco" however is also correct eEnglish, ref. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Guerilla_non-eEnglish_spelling_and_grammar_campaign. (Note to self: Ir

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, When usability improvements are to be implemented, it will change the dynamics of a project. It is easy to argue why the smaller projects need more content and more contributors. It is also easy to argue the same for the bigger and biggest projects. When a skin becomes available with a BIG but

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 1:44 PM, Finn Rindahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'd like to ecco (is that an eEnglish word..?) Michael Finney here. Most > people who engage them self in a small language wikimedia projects will > sooner or later participate in projects like en:wp and commons as well - and

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Finn Rindahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I'd like to ecco (is that an eEnglish word..?) Michael Finney here. I think you mean "echo" - to repeat what he said. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

> Don't forget Esperanto. Since when has Esperanto been a global language? It was a failed attempt at creating one, that's all. There is very little point in anyone learning it except for the fun of it (if you enjoy that sort of thing). ___ foundation-l

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Jimmy Wales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thomas Dalton wrote: >> It doesn't seem that anyone does... > > > I should add at the same time that I think that it is a good thing for > people to try to learn a relevant global language in addition to their > local languag

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

I'd like to ecco (is that an eEnglish word..?) Michael Finney here. Most people who engage them self in a small language wikimedia projects will sooner or later participate in projects like en:wp and commons as well - and thus both learn more about the "facts of reality" as well as communicating wi

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Jimbo: Thank you for your comments. As a person who manages a small wiki project and two language forks from it, I found some of the comments very disturbing... almost frightening that such exist. Your comments re-affirm my confidence in the Wikimedia Foundation and its purpose. Thanks. Mike On

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Geni wrote: >>> "The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage >>> people around the world " first line of the mission statement. By >>> actively promoting minority languages you lock more people into them >>> which is not consistent with trying to empower them. I wrote: >> I do

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Jimmy Wales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > geni wrote: >> 2008/12/1 Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:08 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively promoting them conflicts with Wikimedia's stated obje

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

geni wrote: > 2008/12/1 Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:08 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively >>> promoting them conflicts with Wikimedia's stated objectives. >> How? >> >> Do you edit wikipedia to gi

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, There is no point in usability studies when the lessons learned are not applied. At the Boston Wikimania there was another person who had done studies on usability and MediaWiki. She even presented about it at the "Hacker days"... Given the current opportunity, we should make the most of it.

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:39 PM, Gerard Meijssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > Hoi, > The software has been tested but not all extensions are considered ready > for > WMF production. I am establishing contacts with, among others, people at > UNICEF to make sure that we identify the outstanding issues

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Gerard Meijssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hoi, > The software has been tested but not all extensions are considered ready for > WMF production. I am establishing contacts with, among others, people at > UNICEF to make sure that we identify the outstanding issues carefully and > fix them effi

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Thanks for that, Gerard. In other terms I suppose my question would be this: You've identified a problem (usability, particularly in languages with the smallest or least technologically wealthy communities) and a partial solution (usability extensions developed by UNICEF). Your post, though, had th

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, The software has been tested but not all extensions are considered ready for WMF production. I am establishing contacts with, among others, people at UNICEF to make sure that we identify the outstanding issues carefully and fix them efficiently. Given that the CreatePage extension requires cha

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Ziko van Dijk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Anyone who doubts about the deplorable state of, well, many language > editions of Wikipedia, may have a look at this: > http://pdc.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gleeder&oldid=25822 Gleeder That's hardly a good example - we're never going to have a

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Nathan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Milos - you wrote: "To be honest, I was thinking that the most useful > Wikimedian project in Serbia is English Wikipedia, but I was wrong. Serbian > Wikipedia is the most useful project, even it has ~30 times less articles > than en.wp." Can I ask how you ar

Re: [Foundation-l] EN Wikipedia Editing Statistics

2008/12/1 Bryan Tong Minh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:29 AM, Nikola Smolenski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Monday 01 December 2008 04:09:11 Robert Rohde wrote: >>> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Neil Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >>> > Is the data replicated anywher

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > WTF??? > > Some people really need read more about cultural diversity Bible belt America does not share a culture with say Perth or indeed much of New York. > and linguistic rights No such thing. Language can be a tool for control. With English this is har

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

GerardM - what steps need to be taken to begin testing and adapting the UNICEF usability extensions? Where would be a good project to begin - perhaps the Simple English Wikipedia, if that community is amenable? That its in English might make development easier, and a more usable interface might fit

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Anyone who doubts about the deplorable state of, well, many language editions of Wikipedia, may have a look at this: http://pdc.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gleeder&oldid=25822 Gleeder Measurements: WMF might: - reconsider the rules for allowing new language editions, with regard to the non fic

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Amir E. Aharoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Getting empowered" is not equal to "learning English". The two are not equal, to be sure. But, at the risk of sounding pugilistic, I will say that there probably is a positive correlation between knowing a more "popular

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > 2008/12/1 Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:08 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively >>> promoting them conflicts with Wikimedia's stated objectives. >> >> How? >>

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:19 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2008/12/1 Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:08 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively >>> promoting them conflicts with Wikimedia's stat

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:08 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively >> promoting them conflicts with Wikimedia's stated objectives. > > How? > > Do you edit wi

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:08 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively >> promoting them conflicts with Wikimedia's stated objectives. > > How? > > Do you edit wikipedia to give "Free Access

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, First, the call for improvement of the usability of the MediaWiki software is neutral to languages. It is easy to appreciate how the smaller projects will benefit. It is even easy to argue that the big projects will benefit. Second, why would the promotion of minority languages conflict with t

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:08 PM, geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively > promoting them conflicts with Wikimedia's stated objectives. How? Do you edit wikipedia to give "Free Access To All Human Knowledge" only to the educated el

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 geni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > 2008/12/1 Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> Wow, just wow... I feel really sick after reading some of the messages of >> this tread. >> >> Maybe the promotion of minority languages is not directly a goal of WMF but >> it's a must. > > No. You can argue for the tole

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

2008/12/1 Fajro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Wow, just wow... I feel really sick after reading some of the messages of > this tread. > > Maybe the promotion of minority languages is not directly a goal of WMF but > it's a must. No. You can argue for the tolerance of minority languages but actively promo

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Wow, just wow... I feel really sick after reading some of the messages of this tread. Maybe the promotion of minority languages is not directly a goal of WMF but it's a must. -- △ ℱajro △ IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lernu! - http://www.lernu.net Wikimedia Argentina - http://www.wikimedia.org.ar _

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hoi, I am sure that you and I have learned to create new articles. In the usability study, people who were completely new to MediaWiki were asked to perform well described tasks. All testsubjects were unable to create new articles. They did nothing wrong, they just could not figure out how to do th

Re: [Foundation-l] EN Wikipedia Editing Statistics

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 7:29 AM, Nikola Smolenski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Monday 01 December 2008 04:09:11 Robert Rohde wrote: >> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Neil Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> > Is the data replicated anywhere outside the Tampa data centre (such as >> > in Amst

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 10:43 PM, Gerard Meijssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At Wikimania 2008 a presentation > was given by developers from UNICEF who had done proper usability studies. > They found that 100% of their newbie testsubjects were not able to create a > new article. They must have d

Re: [Foundation-l] EN Wikipedia Editing Statistics

Robert Rohde wrote: > On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 10:29 PM, Nikola Smolenski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Monday 01 December 2008 04:09:11 Robert Rohde wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Neil Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >> wrote: >> Is the data replicated a

Re: [Foundation-l] 80% of our projects are failing

Hello Gerard, I agree with you, making MediaWiki more usable for beginners is more and more a pressing problem of ours. Ting Gerard Meijssen wrote: > Hoi, > Regularly I hear people say that Wikipedia is failing. When you then listen, > there are all kinds of good reasons why Wikipedia is failin