Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Discussion about mails from 9 years ago Was: [PATCH 1/2] doc/community: Add a standard set of rules for software development mailing lists

On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 8:50 AM Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote: > VDD in Korea was awesome. > Yes it was. Thank you to everyone for making it happen and thank you to everyone for being there. Ronald ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org htt

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] avformat: add AV1 RTP depacketizer and packetizer

Hi Tristan, On 11/25/24 18:47, Tristan Matthews via ffmpeg-devel wrote: I haven't done an in-depth review but I tested this locally and it's working well. I'm impressed you were able to implement the packetization without allocating scratch buffers. I had to rewrite it a couple of times unt

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] libpostproc splitout

Hi On Tue, 26 Nov 2024, at 14:11, Michael Niedermayer wrote: > But thats not what iam talking about > > with "eternal debates" i mean things like discussions about > > * the value of tests (yes they are valuable), teh discussion here yet > ended with some people refusing to add tests, and in ano

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Discussion about mails from 9 years ago Was: [PATCH 1/2] doc/community: Add a standard set of rules for software development mailing lists

Hello, On Mon, 25 Nov 2024, at 22:09, compn wrote: > inactive message is also unrelated to why i reported this person, since > it was said in private. Then, if it is in private, how is that a community problem? People have the rights of their opinions. >> > it makes me not want to visit vdd agai

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] [RFC] doc/community: Add a policy about using FFmpeg name in public events

On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 7:33 PM compn wrote: > On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 18:52:02 -0500 > Vittorio Giovara wrote: > > > On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 6:11 PM compn wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 17:37:52 -0500 > > > Vittorio Giovara wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 5:09 PM compn wrote:

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH 2/2] lavc/vvc_mc: R-V V dmvr

Le tiistaina 26. marraskuuta 2024, 5.02.57 EET flow gg a écrit : > ping Unless I am mistaken this set (as a whole) had unaddressed review comments. -- Rémi Denis-Courmont http://www.remlab.net/ ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org h

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] libpostproc splitout

On Tue, 26 Nov 2024, at 15:14, Nicolas George wrote: > Jean-Baptiste Kempf (12024-11-26): > > > Replying to this would be a waste of time. > > It took me time to realize the harm your kind of governance did to > FFmpeg, but now it is quite obvious. Once again you attack people directly on thre

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] libpostproc splitout

Jean-Baptiste Kempf (12024-11-26): > Open Source encompasses Libre Software for years, and is a superset. Juridically, yes. Philosophically, absolutely not. Open Source is about making profit with software while still providing the source code. Libre Software is about making good code ans sharing

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] libpostproc splitout

Jean-Baptiste Kempf (12024-11-26): > Once again you attack people directly on threads. « your kind of » ≠ « you », please do not abuse code of conduct rules to silence discourse that you want to silence. It is part of the kind of governance that is harming the project. -- “I dont see why” isnt

[FFmpeg-devel] How to support audio data placed within video data

Hello, I'd like to add some audio support for the old libavformat/smush formats (mainly the "ANIM" variants; the "SANM" variant already has audio decoding support). The audio data (16bit stereo PCM) however is placed at (more or less) random places within all the video data, also with no relation

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] libpostproc splitout

Jean-Baptiste Kempf (12024-11-26): > This is what managing an open source project is about, or if you prefer, open > source governance. > We understand you don't like open source project management. FFmpeg is Libre Software, not Open Source. The fact that you try to manage it as Open Source migh

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] libpostproc splitout

On Tue, 26 Nov 2024, at 14:59, Nicolas George wrote: > Jean-Baptiste Kempf (12024-11-26): >> Open Source encompasses Libre Software for years, and is a superset. > > Juridically, yes. Philosophically, absolutely not. Open Source is about > making profit with software while still providing the so

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] [RFC] [GA Vote required] Code of Conduct change re step down requests

On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 7:03 AM Michael Niedermayer wrote: > > > And you ask me to resign, and have various other demands, like what > should > > > and should not be in the Code of Conduct. And in another thread > > > say the way to make these mails from you stop is to do what you ask > for. > >

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] [RFC] doc/community: Add a policy about using FFmpeg name in public events

On Tue, 26 Nov 2024 10:15:02 -0500 Vittorio Giovara wrote: > On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 7:33 PM compn wrote: > > > On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 18:52:02 -0500 > > Vittorio Giovara wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 6:11 PM compn wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 17:37:52 -0500 > > > > Vi

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] ID3v2 demuxer

sön 2024-11-24 klockan 02:37 +0100 skrev Michael Niedermayer: > Hi > > On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 03:50:18PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote: > > Quoting Tomas Härdin (2024-11-22 10:51:21) > > > Hi all > > > > > > So after looking at options for how to better deal with ID3v2 I'm > > > leaning towards cre

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavcodec/mpeg12dec.c: add CC format for user_data 0x05 0x02

Will push soon ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-requ...@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".

[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] MAINTAINERS: Lauri is still available but is really low on time nowadays

CC: Lauri Kasanen Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer --- MAINTAINERS | 2 +- 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/MAINTAINERS b/MAINTAINERS index 5720199163e..9714581c6b0 100644 --- a/MAINTAINERS +++ b/MAINTAINERS @@ -515,7 +515,7 @@ LoongArch [2]

[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/infra: List at what companies the name servers are hosted and who provides the servers

Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer --- doc/infra.txt | 6 +++--- 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-) diff --git a/doc/infra.txt b/doc/infra.txt index 08dcf04c307..71ad7a7db02 100644 --- a/doc/infra.txt +++ b/doc/infra.txt @@ -9,9 +9,9 @@ ffmpeg trademark registered in france by ffmpe

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] ID3v2 demuxer

On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 05:24:42PM +0100, Tomas Härdin wrote: > sön 2024-11-24 klockan 02:37 +0100 skrev Michael Niedermayer: > > Hi > > > > On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 03:50:18PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote: > > > Quoting Tomas Härdin (2024-11-22 10:51:21) > > > > Hi all > > > > > > > > So after look

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] libpostproc splitout

Hi jb On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 02:41:02PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote: > Hi > > On Tue, 26 Nov 2024, at 14:11, Michael Niedermayer wrote: > > But thats not what iam talking about > > > > with "eternal debates" i mean things like discussions about > > > > * the value of tests (yes they are val

[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] avfilter/scale_vulkan: add dynamic crop region and aspect ratio match

The scale_vulkan filter initializes the shader once, with the crop region set by the original frame. However, subsequent frames may specify a different crop region than the first frame. This change updates the cropping to match the behavior present on the other hardware frame scale filters. The sc

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] libpostproc splitout

Le tiistaina 26. marraskuuta 2024, 16.14.22 EET Nicolas George a écrit : > It took me time to realize the harm your kind of governance did to > FFmpeg, but now it is quite obvious. There is a lot of criticism made* or to be made of JB's open-source community governance. As far as I know, there re

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] libpostproc splitout

On 11/26/2024 6:25 AM, Nicolas George wrote: Jean-Baptiste Kempf (12024-11-26): Once again you attack people directly on threads. « your kind of » ≠ « you », please do not abuse code of conduct rules to silence discourse that you want to silence. It is part of the kind of governance that is ha

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [External] Re: Crash in Niagara Workbench Streaming with FFmpeg 7.0.1+ (H.264 Codec) on Initial Attempts

I tried to stream H264 video outside Niagara(attached file) Looks like it is running there: Can you pls guide how to capture ffmpeg crash specific logs which we are facing in Niagara? Regards, Rahul -Original Message- From: ffmpeg-devel On Behalf Of Frank Plowman Sent: Friday, Novem

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] libpostproc splitout

On Tue, 26 Nov 2024, at 14:49, Nicolas George wrote: > Jean-Baptiste Kempf (12024-11-26): >> This is what managing an open source project is about, or if you prefer, >> open source governance. >> We understand you don't like open source project management. > > FFmpeg is Libre Software, not Open So

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] libpostproc splitout

Jean-Baptiste Kempf (12024-11-26): Replying to this would be a waste of time. It took me time to realize the harm your kind of governance did to FFmpeg, but now it is quite obvious. -- Nicolas George ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpe

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Discussion about mails from 9 years ago Was: [PATCH 1/2] doc/community: Add a standard set of rules for software development mailing lists

Le maanantaina 25. marraskuuta 2024, 21.44.02 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit : > Hi Remi > > On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 08:22:02PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote: > > Le sunnuntaina 24. marraskuuta 2024, 21.09.43 EET Michael Niedermayer a > > écrit> > > > And in the last 3 weeks, alot of hostili

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] libpostproc splitout

Dear FFmpeg community, The CC is asking for a brief pause (24-48hrs?) in this thread. It's become quite heated and we don't think this is good for anyone. After that, feel free to continue discussing libpostproc's split-out in this thread or other subjects in their own respective threads. Thank y

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH 1/4] lavc/riscv: Move VVC macro to h26x

Hi, Le torstaina 21. marraskuuta 2024, 12.43.38 EET flow gg a écrit : > This patch comes after: > [PATCH 1/2] Update R-V V vvc_mc vset to support more lengths > [PATCH 2/2] lavc/vvc_mc: R-V V dmvr. Reviewing patchset on mailing list is miserable enough as it is. Sorry but I can't track patchset a

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH 4/4] avcodec/mediacodecenc: add async mode support

Quoting Zhao Zhili (2024-11-06 13:31:34) > @@ -78,6 +80,17 @@ typedef struct MediaCodecEncContext { > int extract_extradata; > // Ref. MediaFormat KEY_OPERATING_RATE > int operating_rate; > +int async_mode; > + > +AVMutex input_mutex; > +AVCond input_cond; > +AVFifo *

[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 0/6] [RFC] initial support for BCP47 language tags

It would be nice if FFmpeg could have some concept of locale; for example, in Matroska, geographical region and writing script metadata can coexist with the language code using LanguageBCP47 element (think "en-US", "fr-FR"). This is particularly useful to distinguish between streams with same lang

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v13 2/8] avcodec/webp: separate VP8 decoding

Quoting Thilo Borgmann via ffmpeg-devel (2024-11-15 19:52:05) > Am 21.06.24 um 13:52 schrieb Anton Khirnov: > > Quoting Thilo Borgmann via ffmpeg-devel (2024-06-21 12:43:17) > >> From: Thilo Borgmann via ffmpeg-devel > >> > >> --- > >> libavcodec/webp.c | 50 +

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] ID3v2 demuxer

Quoting Tomas Härdin (2024-11-22 17:10:10) > fre 2024-11-22 klockan 15:50 +0100 skrev Anton Khirnov: > > Quoting Tomas Härdin (2024-11-22 10:51:21) > > > Hi all > > > > > > So after looking at options for how to better deal with ID3v2 I'm > > > leaning towards creating a demuxer for it. I'm writin

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH 4/4] avcodec/mediacodecenc: add async mode support

> On Nov 27, 2024, at 14:37, Anton Khirnov wrote: > > Quoting Zhao Zhili (2024-11-06 13:31:34) >> @@ -78,6 +80,17 @@ typedef struct MediaCodecEncContext { >> int extract_extradata; >> // Ref. MediaFormat KEY_OPERATING_RATE >> int operating_rate; >> +int async_mode; >> + >> +

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/infra: List at what companies the name servers are hosted and who provides the servers

On 11/26/2024 9:01 PM, Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2024, 23:32 Michael Niedermayer, wrote: Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer --- doc/infra.txt | 6 +++--- 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-) diff --git a/doc/infra.txt b/doc/infra.txt index 08dcf04c307

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH 2/2] lavc/vvc_mc: R-V V dmvr

> Unless I am mistaken this set (as a whole) had unaddressed review comments. Which comment remains unresolved? It seems that the last comment here > This fails to assemble here (binutils 2.43.1). has already been addressed. As for the next 1-4 patches, the comments have also been resolved. Ré

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/infra: More details about hosting and security

Hi mailing list members On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 05:42:26PM +0100, Michael Niedermayer wrote: > From: Nikolay Aleksandrov > > Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer > > I have redacted the exact location of the FFmpeg server as writing > that in public seems just a bad idea > --- > doc/infra.txt |

[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 1/6] avformat/avlanguage: add ff_bcp47_parse() for parsing BCP47 locales

Signed-off-by: Marth64 --- libavformat/avlanguage.c | 85 libavformat/avlanguage.h | 7 2 files changed, 92 insertions(+) diff --git a/libavformat/avlanguage.c b/libavformat/avlanguage.c index 202d9aa835..eef2ad8ff7 100644 --- a/libavformat/avlangua

[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 4/6] avformat/matroskadec: add support for reading LanguageBCP47 element

Signed-off-by: Marth64 --- libavformat/matroskadec.c | 28 ++-- 1 file changed, 26 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) diff --git a/libavformat/matroskadec.c b/libavformat/matroskadec.c index 0e150f9138..1d895a79b0 100644 --- a/libavformat/matroskadec.c +++ b/libavformat/matros

[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 6/6] ref/fate/matroska: update tags for samples with LanguageBCP47 tags

Signed-off-by: Marth64 --- tests/ref/fate/matroska-side-data-pref-codec | 1 + tests/ref/fate/matroska-side-data-pref-packet | 1 + 2 files changed, 2 insertions(+) diff --git a/tests/ref/fate/matroska-side-data-pref-codec b/tests/ref/fate/matroska-side-data-pref-codec index 2b67c0191f..5a91d3

[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 2/6] avformat/dump: print language_bcp47 when pressent as language indicator

Signed-off-by: Marth64 --- libavformat/dump.c | 16 +++- 1 file changed, 11 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-) diff --git a/libavformat/dump.c b/libavformat/dump.c index b7125a652f..1c89e7262d 100644 --- a/libavformat/dump.c +++ b/libavformat/dump.c @@ -149,7 +149,7 @@ static void dump_di

[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 3/6] avformat/matroska: add identifier for MATROSKA_ID_TRACKLANGUAGEBCP47

Signed-off-by: Marth64 --- libavformat/matroska.h | 1 + 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+) diff --git a/libavformat/matroska.h b/libavformat/matroska.h index 719f2ef796..aa0b7a5df8 100644 --- a/libavformat/matroska.h +++ b/libavformat/matroska.h @@ -94,6 +94,7 @@ #define MATROSKA_ID_SEEKPREROLL 0x

[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 5/6] avformat/matroskaenc: add support for writing LanguageBCP47 element

Signed-off-by: Marth64 --- libavformat/matroskaenc.c | 32 +--- 1 file changed, 29 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-) diff --git a/libavformat/matroskaenc.c b/libavformat/matroskaenc.c index 60c896e964..37e384d2bb 100644 --- a/libavformat/matroskaenc.c +++ b/libavformat/ma

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 6/6] ref/fate/matroska: update tags for samples with LanguageBCP47 tags

Will need to resend this particular patch, apologies. Meant to change from locale to language_bcp47 (after this it does pass). ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit li

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH 1/4] lavc/riscv: Move VVC macro to h26x

Thank you for helping with the review. I understand how challenging this process can be. I didn't merge the two series and resubmit them because they've already been pending for over a month, and I'm a bit worried that resubmitting them might mean waiting for another month. If it's necessary to o

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavcodec/mpeg12dec.c: add CC format for user_data 0x05 0x02

Pushed as 78c4d6c136e10222a0b0ddff639c836f295a9029 ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-requ...@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] avformat/libssh: fix credential variables typo

Pushed ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-requ...@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".

[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] avformat/dvdvideodec: fix missing last chapter marker due to off-by-one

When using fast chapter marker calculation (default), the last marker is inadverdently ignored due to an off-by-one. Signed-off-by: Marth64 --- libavformat/dvdvideodec.c | 2 +- 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) diff --git a/libavformat/dvdvideodec.c b/libavformat/dvdvideodec.c inde

[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] avcodec/ac4dec: process immersive stereo

--- This doesn't apply to git master, but is for anyone with AC-4 decoder branch. libavcodec/ac4dec.c | 7 +++ 1 file changed, 7 insertions(+) diff --git a/libavcodec/ac4dec.c b/libavcodec/ac4dec.c index 9ac866eb4f..e9f7991c9e 100644 --- a/libavcodec/ac4dec.c +++ b/libavcodec/ac4dec.c @@ -11

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] doc/infra: List at what companies the name servers are hosted and who provides the servers

On Tue, 26 Nov 2024, 23:32 Michael Niedermayer, wrote: > Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer > --- > doc/infra.txt | 6 +++--- > 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-) > > diff --git a/doc/infra.txt b/doc/infra.txt > index 08dcf04c307..71ad7a7db02 100644 > --- a/doc/infra.txt > +++ b/do

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH 2/2] avcodec/mjpegdec: silently ignore APPx stubs

Quoting Ramiro Polla (2024-10-22 11:25:58) > On Mon, Oct 21, 2024 at 1:41 AM Michael Niedermayer > wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 17, 2024 at 01:00:12PM +0200, Ramiro Polla wrote: > > > Consider APPx fields that are too short to contain an id field (32-bit) > > > as stubs, and silently ignore them. > > >

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2] avcodec/h2645_vui: Interpret a degenerate SAR as unspecified.

Hi, gentle ping about this patch I sent a few months ago, receiving no reply. Thanks, Giovanni. Il 31/07/24 11:45, Giovanni Mascellani ha scritto: The specification says that if either the numerator or the denominator is zero then the SAR is to be intended unspecified. Internally ffmpeg repre

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] apsnr's PSNR formula is different from Wikipedia's formula

Quoting Shawn Singh via ffmpeg-devel (2024-10-07 19:22:29) > On Tue, Oct 1, 2024 at 3:41 PM Jing Lu wrote: > > > Hi ffmpeg-devel@, > > > > I recently came across the apnsr filter > > , > > and the formula for PSNR it uses: >

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH 2/2] doc/encoders: very basic FFv1 documentation

Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2024-10-15 00:46:50) > +@item qtable > +-1 (default, automatic), 0 use 8bit default, 1, use >8bit default int seems like the wrong type then. -- Anton Khirnov ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ff

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] avcodec/bsf/dovi_rpu: remove EL when stripping dovi metadata

Quoting gnattu via ffmpeg-devel (2024-10-15 11:41:35) > When RPU is removed EL should also be removed. This only applies to > HEVC as AV1 based Profile 10 does not support EL at all. > > Signed-off-by: Gnattu OC > --- > libavcodec/bsf/dovi_rpu.c | 7 ++- > 1 file changed, 6 insertions(+), 1

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] [RFC] [GA Vote required] Code of Conduct change re step down requests

Hi Vittorio On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 01:04:39PM -0500, Vittorio Giovara wrote: > On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 7:21 AM Michael Niedermayer > wrote: > > > > > > > Hey Micheal, > > > > > > Instead of flooding the CoC with a series of ad-personam rules that will > > > grant immunity to you and stifle any

[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] libavformat/smush: read ANIMv2 a/v parameters

SMUSH ANIM files with subversion 2 provide additional fields for framerate and samplerate, use them if available, otherwise default to 12 fps which is the default for almost all ANIMv2 since 1995. Fixes the too-fast playback of test files from LucasArts games released 1995-1997. It was not notice

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH 1/2] doc/infra: clarify domain name servers

On Wed, 20 Nov 2024, 20:36 James Almer, wrote: > On 11/20/2024 5:03 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 19, 2024 at 07:00:47PM -0500, Vittorio Giovara wrote: > >> On Tue, Nov 19, 2024 at 6:23 PM Michael Niedermayer < > mich...@niedermayer.cc> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Signed-off-by: Micha

Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] libpostproc splitout

Hi Anton On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 05:38:13AM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote: > Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2024-11-11 00:06:12) > > The reason for me to consider to split libpostproc out is to be able to > > work on the code without the eternal debates here. So i need it to be > > maintainable and i n