Re: [Emu] EMU charter revision

2008-04-28 Thread Gene Chang (genchang)
Dan, I am not sure I am able to clearly understand the end result you seek. It seems there is a clear consensus for a tunneled method. Are you pushing for the addition of a tunneled method? Ok... I am easily baited. What would you like to see to achieve more than a snail race? I am assuming we bo

Re: [Emu] EMU charter revision

2008-04-28 Thread Yoav Nir
Gene Chang said: Dan, I am not sure I am able to clearly understand the end result you seek. It seems there is a clear consensus for a tunneled method. Are you pushing for the addition of a tunneled method? Ok... I am easily baited. What would you like to see to achieve more than a snail race?

Re: [Emu] EMU charter revision

2008-04-28 Thread Gene Chang (genchang)
Yoav, I ask for some latitude in my choice of words to describe some of the use cases that interest me. It feels to me (possibly its must me being naive) that we are tip-toeing around the dual use of some EAP methods to support some interesting use cases. These use cases are out of scope for EMU.

Re: [Emu] EMU charter revision

2008-04-28 Thread Hao Zhou (hzhou)
Yoav: I thought we had clear consensus in IETF 71 WG meeting and instructed by the AD that while Dan's proposal is an interesting one, but it doesn't work with the legacy password databases and thus out-of the scope of the charter. Until we have the proof of security analysis and clear of IPR iss

Re: [Emu] EMU charter revision

2008-04-28 Thread Dan Harkins
Hi Gene, I'm not pushing a tunneled method. We have enough of those and their differences are not so great. Yes, I was using "snail race" as a pejorative. As I said at the last IETF we should have a cage-match-cum-beauty-contest between TTLS and FAST, turn the last RFC text of the winner i

Re: [Emu] EMU charter revision

2008-04-28 Thread Dan Harkins
Hold on a second there Hao. A security proof was never a requirement. I'm not aware of any other IETF protocols that required security proofs or even have security proofs. There is no formal proof required of the tunneled methods and I think it would be very difficult to do one. One of the pr

Re: [Emu] EMU charter revision

2008-04-28 Thread Hao Zhou (hzhou)
Dan: Now you have changed to argue that tunnel method is not the right solution for the use case EMU is targeted on, instead of arguing your proposed password should be included as addition to the tunnel method. I thought working on and standardizing the tunnel method is the WG consensus for few I

Re: [Emu] EMU charter revision

2008-04-28 Thread Gene Chang (genchang)
Dan, I think we can all appreciate the entertainment value of bringing a reality show to the IETF. Imagine replacing the IETF social with an arena full of hyped up Internet engineers enjoying a night fellowship with beer and trash talk. Unfortunately, all we are doing is dressing up a down select

Re: [Emu] EMU charter revision

2008-04-28 Thread Dan Harkins
Hao, On Mon, April 28, 2008 10:32 am, Hao Zhou (hzhou) wrote: > Dan: > > Now you have changed to argue that tunnel method is not the right > solution for the use case EMU is targeted on, instead of arguing your > proposed password should be included as addition to the tunnel method. I > thought

Re: [Emu] EMU charter revision

2008-04-28 Thread Joseph Salowey (jsalowey)
Hi Yoav, You bring up an interesting point in discussing the need for EAP password based authentication within other protected protocols. If this is targeted at working with legacy databases then I think it can be accommodated under the current charter. An EAP protected tunnel is required for so

Re: [Emu] EMU charter revision

2008-04-28 Thread Dan Harkins
Gene, I don't think anyone would find an EMU reality show entertaining. The only comic relief would be one crazy guy who, once every 4 months, pokes his head in the window and says "I do not approve" to people sitting around watching paint dry. You are restating Stephen's comment from Phil

Re: [Emu] EMU charter revision

2008-04-28 Thread Gene Chang (genchang)
Dan, Great, we are not back to lets get those requirements done. It's the gate to the next steps. Gene Eugene Chang (genchang) Cisco Systems Office: 603-559-2978 Mobile: 781-799-0233 Skype: gene02421 > -O

Re: [Emu] EMU charter revision

2008-04-28 Thread Gene Chang (genchang)
Oops... a key typo in the earlier version... Dan, Great, we are now back to let's get those requirements done. It's the gate to the next steps. Gene Eugene Chang (genchang) Cisco Systems Office: 603-559-2978 Mobile:

Re: [Emu] [saag] new co-chairs for emu and msec

2008-04-28 Thread GOGWIM, JOEL GODWIN
You are welcome on the chairs and big congratulations while anticipating your able leadership. Thank you, ^^Gogwim,Joel. On Fri, April 25, 2008 3:19 pm, Tim Polk said: > Folks, > > Pasi and I are very pleased to announce that two of our co-chair > vacancies have been filled. > > Alan Dekok has ag