Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign

2011-06-03 Thread João Damas
So far, experience tells us exactly that. I am afraid it will continue to do so Joao On 2 Jun 2011, at 21:28, David Conrad wrote: > On Jun 2, 2011, at 5:23 AM, Richard Lamb wrote: > > On the other hand, pragmatically speaking, I suspect signature expiration > will be causing more damage to the

Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign

2011-06-03 Thread Marc Lampo
sponse ...) Kind regards, Marc Lampo Security Officer EURid -Original Message- From: Richard Lamb [mailto:richard.l...@icann.org] Sent: 02 June 2011 05:24 PM To: Joe Abley; João Damas Cc: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't

Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign

2011-06-03 Thread Marc Lampo
ge- From: Paul Hoffman [mailto:paul.hoff...@vpnc.org] Sent: 02 June 2011 05:43 PM To: Joe Abley Cc: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign Another thought is to simply keep a detailed history and watch the replacements. For each zone

Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign

2011-06-02 Thread David Conrad
On Jun 2, 2011, at 5:23 AM, Richard Lamb wrote: > I still think, stale or not, having some idea of what the zone's policy is > regarding signature updates would be useful. I'll admit a vague, unsubstantiated feeling of ill-ease about this. Would publishing this policy provide information of b

Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign

2011-06-02 Thread Richard Lamb
Good point. Make it adaptive. > -Original Message- > From: dnsop-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:dnsop-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Paul Hoffman > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 8:43 AM > To: Joe Abley > Cc: IETF DNSOP WG > Subject: Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature ex

Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign

2011-06-02 Thread Edward Lewis
Time is a pain in the neck. Conversations over the meaning of timers and time fields have gone on for a long time. Keep in mind the difference between absolute (or wall clock) time and relative time. The latter is even stickier because the time may be relative to an event that is local and n

Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign

2011-06-02 Thread Olafur Gudmundsson
maximum TTL in zone Olafur -Rick -Original Message- From: dnsop-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:dnsop-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joe Abley Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 3:22 AM To: João Damas Cc: IETF DNSOP WG Subject: Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't

Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign

2011-06-02 Thread Paul Hoffman
Another thought is to simply keep a detailed history and watch the replacements. For each zone, you should be able to determine what their normal renewal buffer is. You would only need to be concerned about those that get too close to the edge from their normal operations. --Paul Hoffman __

Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign

2011-06-02 Thread Richard Lamb
dnsop-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joe > Abley > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 3:22 AM > To: João Damas > Cc: IETF DNSOP WG > Subject: Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign > > > On 2011-06-02, at 13:17, João Damas wrote: > > &g

Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign

2011-06-02 Thread Jim Reid
On 2 Jun 2011, at 15:24, Tony Finch wrote: How does this differ from the metadata that's in the zone's RRSIG and SOA records? Joe's script doesn't display that metadata. It might help you decide if you should worry about signatures that are due to expire soon, more than just the interva

Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign

2011-06-02 Thread Tony Finch
Jim Reid wrote: > On 2 Jun 2011, at 14:53, Tony Finch wrote: > > > It's possibly useful to know the ratio of the intervals between the > > inception time and now, and now and the expiry time. Also the relation > > between the now/expiry interval and the relevant TTLs and zone refresh and > > expir

Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign

2011-06-02 Thread Jim Reid
On 2 Jun 2011, at 14:53, Tony Finch wrote: It's possibly useful to know the ratio of the intervals between the inception time and now, and now and the expiry time. Also the relation between the now/expiry interval and the relevant TTLs and zone refresh and expiry intervals. How does this d

Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign

2011-06-02 Thread Tony Finch
Edward Lewis wrote: > At 13:02 +0300 6/2/11, Joe Abley wrote: > > > I have realised, however, that I can't tell whether a signature that is > > (say) going to expire in under three days is a cause for concern, or > > whether it's normal operations and something I should expect to be > > replaced a

Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign

2011-06-02 Thread Edward Lewis
At 13:02 +0300 6/2/11, Joe Abley wrote: I have realised, however, that I can't tell whether a signature that is (say) going to expire in under three days is a cause for concern, or whether it's normal operations and something I should expect to be replaced as part of normal operations. Once up

Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign

2011-06-02 Thread Tony Finch
Joe Abley wrote: > > Is there perhaps value in finding a mechanism by which zone operators > can publish information in their zones which gives guidance as to what > the normal limits for signature expiration ought to be? Sounds like a good idea. I agree with João that you need to take care not t

Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign

2011-06-02 Thread Joe Abley
On 2011-06-02, at 13:17, João Damas wrote: > at first glance it might look useful, but this is the kind of info that tends > to go stale and then what do you do when there is a mismatch? I guess you flag it for manual investigation. The alternative is that you don't really know when a situatio

Re: [DNSOP] watching for signature expiration in zones you don't sign

2011-06-02 Thread João Damas
at first glance it might look useful, but this is the kind of info that tends to go stale and then what do you do when there is a mismatch? Would you invalidate a still-valid signature if it doesn't conform to policy in case someone else is signing the zone other than the authorised party? Would