Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] Questions / concerns with draft-ietf-dnsop-svcb-https (in RFC Editor queue)

2022-08-24 Thread Brian Dickson
On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 6:19 PM Paul Hoffman wrote: > On Aug 24, 2022, at 5:14 PM, Brian Dickson > wrote: > > "at this stage" is only the case due to the draft not being explicit in > the flow. > > Are you saying that it was explicit after WG Last Call but changed? Or > during IETF Last Call and

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] Questions / concerns with draft-ietf-dnsop-svcb-https (in RFC Editor queue)

2022-08-24 Thread Paul Hoffman
On Aug 24, 2022, at 5:14 PM, Brian Dickson wrote: > "at this stage" is only the case due to the draft not being explicit in the > flow. Are you saying that it was explicit after WG Last Call but changed? Or during IETF Last Call and was changed? > Yes, this is a non-editorial change. Also ca

Re: [DNSOP] Questions / concerns with draft-ietf-dnsop-svcb-https (in RFC Editor queue)

2022-08-24 Thread Brian Dickson
On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 4:11 PM Eric Orth wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 4:58 PM Viktor Dukhovni > wrote: > >> * When the initial SVCB (also HTTPS, ...) query returns an AliasMode >> result, lookup failures in all subsequent SVCB/HTTPS queries are >> "fatal" >> even for SVC

Re: [DNSOP] Questions / concerns with draft-ietf-dnsop-svcb-https (in RFC Editor queue)

2022-08-24 Thread Viktor Dukhovni
On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 07:11:16PM -0400, Eric Orth wrote: > > Regarless, once AliasMode records are found, these MUST be used and > > partial lookup failure along a non-empty (so far) alias chain needs > > to be fatal. > > This would be a big non-editorial change from the current draft, and I >

Re: [DNSOP] Questions / concerns with draft-ietf-dnsop-svcb-https (in RFC Editor queue)

2022-08-24 Thread Viktor Dukhovni
On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 02:51:33PM -0700, Brian Dickson wrote: >- The problem is whether/when/how the DNS queries are considered >failures, and whether/when/how some sort of fall-back procedure is followed >in those cases. Indeed "failure" may not be consistently defined. - On the

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Schanzenbach, Martin
> On 24. Aug 2022, at 22:13, Schanzenbach, Martin > wrote: > > Signed PGP part > > >> On 24. Aug 2022, at 20:22, Joe Abley wrote: >> >> On Aug 24, 2022, at 11:27, Schanzenbach, Martin >> wrote: >> >>> We (I) learned that this is a good approach after conversations with our >>> reviewer

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Schanzenbach, Martin
> On 24. Aug 2022, at 20:22, Joe Abley wrote: > > On Aug 24, 2022, at 11:27, Schanzenbach, Martin > wrote: > >> We (I) learned that this is a good approach after conversations with our >> reviewers in particular since it is very difficult to distinguish what >> "case" actually is with resp

Re: [DNSOP] [off-topic even more than non-IETF work] was Re: [Ext] name folding, was draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread John Levine
It appears that Paul Wouters said: >On Wed, 24 Aug 2022, John Levine wrote: > >> Many people believe that but it's not entirely true. >> >> While most mail systems treat upper and lower case in local parts the same, >> I have occasionally seen setups where you can send mail to sek...@example.com

[DNSOP] [off-topic even more than non-IETF work] was Re: [Ext] name folding, was draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Paul Wouters
On Wed, 24 Aug 2022, John Levine wrote: Many people believe that but it's not entirely true. While most mail systems treat upper and lower case in local parts the same, I have occasionally seen setups where you can send mail to sek...@example.com and other capitalizations bounce. In my 30 yea

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Joe Abley
On Aug 24, 2022, at 11:27, Schanzenbach, Martin wrote: > We (I) learned that this is a good approach after conversations with our > reviewers in particular since it is very difficult to distinguish what "case" > actually is with respect to i18n. Fortunately (at least as far as understanding do

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] name folding, was draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread John Levine
It appears that Paul Wouters said: >On Aug 24, 2022, at 11:27, Schanzenbach, Martin >wrote: >> >> GNS, as in the protocol, does *not* consider "Example.gns.Alt" and >> "Example.gns.alt" to be the same name. > >FYI, on many mobile phones, words at the start are automatically capitalized, >so

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Schanzenbach, Martin
> On 24. Aug 2022, at 18:46, Paul Wouters wrote: > > On Aug 24, 2022, at 11:27, Schanzenbach, Martin > wrote: >> >> GNS, as in the protocol, does *not* consider "Example.gns.Alt" and >> "Example.gns.alt" to be the same name. > > FYI, on many mobile phones, words at the start are automatic

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Paul Wouters
On Aug 24, 2022, at 11:27, Schanzenbach, Martin wrote: > > GNS, as in the protocol, does *not* consider "Example.gns.Alt" and > "Example.gns.alt" to be the same name. FYI, on many mobile phones, words at the start are automatically capitalized, so you are going to experience many user problem

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Timothy Mcsweeney
> On 08/24/2022 11:27 AM EDT Schanzenbach, Martin > wrote: > If the application decides that the user expectation is that "example.ch.Alt" > IS "example.ch.alt", then the application is invited to make the user happy > accordingly. I see. I understand now. You don't need the IETF for this

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Schanzenbach, Martin
Hi, > On 24. Aug 2022, at 16:28, Peter Thomassen wrote: > > Hi Joe, > > On 8/24/22 10:13, Joe Abley wrote: >> So the question is not whether to allow mixed capitalisation; the question >> is why we would intentionally change a fundamental expectation of domain >> names to accommodate names an

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Peter Thomassen
Hi Joe, On 8/24/22 10:13, Joe Abley wrote: So the question is not whether to allow mixed capitalisation; the question is why we would intentionally change a fundamental expectation of domain names to accommodate names and resolution protocols that we largely don't have any requirements for be

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Eliot Lear
On 24.08.22 16:13, Joe Abley wrote: Hi Peter, So the question is not whether to allow mixed capitalisation; the question is why we would intentionally change a fundamental expectation of domain names to accommodate names and resolution protocols that we largely don't have any requirements f

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Joe Abley
On Aug 24, 2022, at 10:13, Joe Abley wrote: > That's a large installed base of assumptions; to a close approximately it's > all users of the internet and all software that makes use of it. Approximation, not approximately. My phone and I have different ideas about language, soapy about thatch.

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Joe Abley
Hi Peter, On Aug 24, 2022, at 09:40, Peter Thomassen wrote: > On 8/23/22 18:37, Joe Abley wrote: >> So your suggestion is that this document should specify behaviour for QNAMEs >> whose final label is exactly "alt" but that names with different >> capitalisation should be leaked to the DNS? >

Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] draft-ietf-dnsop-alt-tld-17

2022-08-24 Thread Peter Thomassen
On 8/23/22 18:37, Joe Abley wrote: On Aug 23, 2022, at 18:07, Peter Thomassen wrote: Unaware applications: yes, perhaps mixed; but as they're unaware, they'll ignore the carve-out regardless of case Aware applications: ... will produce only what's compliant. And the question here is what

Re: [DNSOP] [core] [dns-privacy] WGA call for draft-lenders-dns-over-coap

2022-08-24 Thread Matthias Waehlisch
Hi Ted, sorry for the late reply! re scenarios: during bootstrappign, a constrained requires CoAP and DNS client capablities. for example, when an LwM2M client registers at a LwM2M server, which acts as a partial CoAP Resource Directory. re: your statement "The privacy benefit of DoH wou