I posted two new live iso's with no *systemd* (yes that means also no
libsystemd0) with installers and remaster tools:
xfce4 (Refracta-based):
http://www.exegnulinux.net/refracta/iso/
Trinity Desktop Environment (the fork of KDE3):
http://www.exegnulinux.net/downloads/jessie/
Some debs here
On 15/04/15 17:39, Franco Lanza wrote:
systemd-shim is for who don't want to have systemd in pid 1 but accept
other systemd components. We don't want systemd at all.
+1. My /etc/apt/preferences.d/01systemd:
Package: *systemd*
Pin: origin ""
Pin-Priority: -1
Yes, that also excludes libsystemd
Don't know why but some of my posts didn't seem to make the mailing list
properly so will try again!
On 13/04/15 13:57, David Hare wrote:
On 13/04/15 06:19, Franco Lanza wrote:
What about being devuan maintainers and contribute those packages
to devuan?
Well, my intention is
There appears to be no root password in the xfce image. There's only an
asterisk in /etc/shadow.
Maybe my mistake, there was meant to be. However should work
(from where you can set a root password if wanted) That's the usual
debian-live type setup anyway.
For anyone interested in
debootstrap --exclude systemd,systemd-sysv,libsystemd0 jessie .
without specifying a URL is working here (are the excludes needed?)
However after I chroot it and apt update:
W: GPG error: http://packages.devuan.org jessie InRelease: The following
signatures were invalid: BADSIG 94532124541922
On 01/05/15 01:32, Franco Lanza wrote:
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 01:44:47AM +0100, David Hare wrote:
debootstrap --exclude systemd,systemd-sysv,libsystemd0 jessie .
without specifying a URL is working here (are the excludes needed?)
However after I chroot it and apt update:
W: GPG error: http
On 01/05/15 10:18, Jaromil wrote:
dear David,
On Fri, 01 May 2015, David Hare wrote:
Thanks! I just tested the new debootstrap (same opts as before).
There were no such errors in the bootstrap nor subsequent manual
chroot.
Later yesterday, the gpg error seemed to resolve itself during
I did notice that http://angband.pl/debian/ is quite active and does
publish sources. In addition to Devuan this is (almost) enough to get a
fully-functional systemd-free (except *** udev) Jessie with xfce4.
Whoever you are maintains it, thanks from me at least..
__
On 02/05/15 08:05, Edward Bartolo wrote:
I downloaded debootstrap's source from:
https://git.devuan.org/packages-base/debootstrap and built a .deb
package on Debian Testing. Then, I used the freshly installed
debootstrap to install Devuan as follows:
# debootstrap --arch amd64 jessie /mnt/sda8 h
On 03/05/15 21:24, Anto wrote:
On 03/05/15 06:31, Edward Bartolo wrote:
The command I used:
debootstrap --arch amd64 jessie /mnt/sda8
http://packages.devuan.org/merged
/mnt/sda8 is the partition where Devuan was installed.
I will now start testing Devuan.
Hello Edward,
I also tried the i
On 05/05/15 11:57, Anto wrote:
I pinned *systemd* packages into Pin-Priority: -1, and re-compiled cron
package without anything related to systemd. But there is still
/lib/systemd/system/cron.service file as we can see below.
Which package actually generates all of the files and directories u
On 05/05/15 12:48, Noel Torres wrote:
Didier Kryn escribió:
[...]
I bet every service daemon package would now provide a .service
file, just like everyone used to provide an init script. As far as I
understand, the .service files are the systemd counterpart of sysvinit
scripts. I imagine
The decision in Debian to default the init system to systemd
is the main reason to fork Debian in the first place.
Not exactly.. The reason is Debian's decision to *require* systemd with
the only alternative a crippled OS. What is "default" matters less..
D
While we're waiting for vdev (that does look like the way to go) I
revisited eudev, which I never managed to get working in a usable way.
Did much better this time after some not too major hacking of the source
posted on devuan git, mostly "rules" and "patches". I now got it working
seemingly
Great work Jaret, thanks. Testing yours here today. I see you took a
different approach to Dimitri, who based debian/ on udev 1.7.5 (the last
one before systemd assimilation)
Running (Devuan-based-) Jessie. Here, eudev 3.0.0 installs and runs
successfully using Dimitri's debian/ with some mo
On 17/05/15 14:08, Jaret Cantu wrote:
On 05/17/2015 08:51 AM, David Hare wrote:
Running (Devuan-based-) Jessie. Here, eudev 3.0.0 installs and runs
successfully using Dimitri's debian/ with some modifications. It
builds also on 2.1.1 source like that. I have also made a working
live-
Maybe a "template" for the dummy with a warning and option to exit and
deal with it in preinst is the answer. At the moment I need to use dpkg
-P --force-all on existing udev components manually, first.
Otherwise, (simpler) perhaps name the initscript "udev" instead, not
tried yet.
This is
On 17/05/15 14:55, Jaret Cantu wrote:
On 05/17/2015 09:20 AM, David Hare wrote:
The problem is: installing "eudev" in init.d because it provides
"udev" which already exists. Installing the dummy udev (needed to
satisfy deps of other packages) does not remove existing conffi
On 17/05/15 14:55, Jaret Cantu wrote:
I looked into finding a way to make eudev provide the udev packages
elegantly
Unfortunately you can't use "provides" with a version tag.. Other
packages might depend udev (=> x.y.x). The only solution seems to use a
dummy.
D
___
On 18/05/15 12:20, Edward Bartolo wrote:
My XFCE4 installation in Devuan cannot shutdown or restart as these
options for some reason unknown to me are greyed out.
Works here (as does suspend and usb mounts from thunar) without
*systemd*.. but installed are "nosystemd" versions of policykit-1
On 18/05/15 15:08, Edward Bartolo wrote:
Did you modify the source code for consolekit2. If you downloaded the
source, could you tell me from where and what you did?
Thanks.
http://exegnulinux.net/nosystemd/pool/main/c/consolekit/
Sources included for your inspection/modification. This is an
On 05/06/15 07:49, Edward Bartolo wrote:
I am trying to compile ConsoleKit2 source for amd64 but I am getting this error:
dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libdbus-glib-1-dev (>=
0.30) libudev-dev libx11-dev (>= 1.0.0) xmlto libpolkit-gobject-1-dev
(>= 0.92)
Is it safe to install t
root@exe-jessv:/# apt install bash-completion
WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface yet. Use with caution
in scripts.
Reading package lists...
Building dependency tree...
Reading state information...
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer
required:
I removed bash-completion and then installed it again from devuan/jessie
and got this error:
Preparing to unpack .../bash-completion_1%3a2.1-4.1+devuan1_all.deb ...
Unpacking bash-completion (1:2.1-4.1+devuan1) ...
dpkg: error processing archive
/var/cache/apt/archives/bash-completion_1%3a2.1-
On 08/06/15 13:58, David Hare wrote:
I removed bash-completion and then installed it again from devuan/jessie
and got this error:
Preparing to unpack .../bash-completion_1%3a2.1-4.1+devuan1_all.deb ...
Unpacking bash-completion (1:2.1-4.1+devuan1) ...
dpkg: error processing archive
/var
Fixed in bash-completion 1:2.1-4.1+devuan2. Thanks, nextime!
Cheers,
Urban
Fixed here. Thanks.
ii bash-completion 1:2.1-4.1+devuan2
ii bsdutils 1:2.26.2-6+devuan1
ii sysvinit-utils 2.88dsf-59.2+devuan2
ii util-linux 2.26.2-6+devuan1
ii util-linux-locales 2.25.2-6.0nosystemd1
D
_
Question for Jude:
I use the live-boot tools a lot and make live-images. The live-boot
scripts, which go in initramfs, rely a lot on udev and commands like
"blkid -o udev"..
Will vdev, when ready, have compatibility for such cases?
Thanks for all your good work. I'm actually using eudev at
On 27/08/15 15:09, Steve Litt wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 12:58:14 +0200
Svante Signell wrote:
On Tue, 2015-08-25 at 17:29 +0200, Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
On Sun 26 July 2015 23:18:58 Steve Litt wrote:
You can roll your own automount with one day's work using
inotify-wait, dmesg, sudo, lsblk,
Thanks Edward for your great effort, commitment and persistence and
Aitor for packaging.
I have yet to work out how to automatically connect on boot. A manpage
is needed.
An installation and some live images here use (self-compiled) eudev. The
wireless inteface is not necessarily wlanx but a
Some observations, testing netman.
I have a (devuan-based) installation running eudev. The (usb) wireless
device shows as wlan0 and netman works fine. As this machine is a fixed
tower it doesn't normally need netman gui so my autostart calls this,
and it works:
xterm -title "Connecting to ne
Don't know if there is an "official" plan to sort this. It is an
annoyance that os-prober (normally run at update-grub) detects my
(bootstrap-installed) Devuan as "Unknown Linux Distribution" then that's
what you get in grub menu.
This is fixed here by adding after line 23 of
/usr/lib/os-prob
On 05/10/15 22:25, Adam Borowski wrote:
On Mon, Oct 05, 2015 at 08:19:10PM +0100, David Hare wrote:
Don't know if there is an "official" plan to sort this. It is an annoyance
that os-prober (normally run at update-grub) detects my
(bootstrap-installed) Devuan as "Unknow
Add to 'live-config' a file '/etc/config/config.conf' containig, for
example:
LIVE_HOSTNAME=devuan
LIVE_USERNAME=user
LIVE_USER_FULLNAME="User"
LIVE_USER_DEFAULT_GROUPS="cdrom floppy audio dip video plugdev fuse
bluetooth netdev scanner"
What live-config manpage says (and
On 05/10/15 22:25, Adam Borowski wrote:
On Mon, Oct 05, 2015 at 08:19:10PM +0100, David Hare wrote:
Don't know if there is an "official" plan to sort this. It is an annoyance
that os-prober (normally run at update-grub) detects my
(bootstrap-installed) Devuan as "Unknow
On 17/10/15 19:50, aitor_czr wrote:
I wasn't aware!
Thanks,
Aitor.
On 17/10/15 19:18, Dragan FOSS wrote:
On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 03:57:59PM +0200, Dragan FOSS wrote:
>>On 10/17/2015 03:50 PM, Mitt Green wrote:
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>Since gvfs is big (speaking of number of packages) and requires sy
On 22/10/15 15:45, aitor_czr wrote:
Hi Sam,
Actually hplip depends only on libsystemd0.
You can uninstall systemd-shim, libpam-systemd and systemd.
Cheers,
Aitor.
You sure about that? *systemd* is excluded in my apt preferences
(however I do use angband.pl) It seems to come from a dep of a
On 07/11/15 22:27, Scienceof Atomics wrote:
I've just purchased a 13-DVD set of Debian Jessie, and also burnt myself
a copy of ExeGnuLinux, which combines Debian with the Trinity project,
aiming to keep alive the KDE 3.5 desktop:
http://exegnulinux.net/
EGL is planning a move to Devuan, which
Running TDE (Trinity Desktop Environment) here, on a Devuan bootstrap
base. For anyone who didn't know, it is the community-maintained kde3
fork. It works very well, ram usage on startup little over 100MB. Also
forked was qt3 (now tqt).
There are no gtk nor qt4 dependencies unless you want to add
I needed to install mpv, which failed with this error:
:~$ mpv '/my/file.mp4'
mpv was compiled and linked against a mixture of Libav and FFmpeg
versions. This won't work and will most likely crash at some point.
Exiting.
This took me quite some time to debug. The reason appears to be
incompatibil
Another reference:
https://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?t=70719
On 21 April 2016 at 11:43, David Hare wrote:
> I needed to install mpv, which failed with this error:
>
> :~$ mpv '/my/file.mp4'
> mpv was compiled and linked against a mixture of Libav and FFmpeg
>
Both Exe GNU/Linux and Refracta have the "refractasnapshot" utility,
which creates a custom live image.
I don't know if antiX is actually Devuan-based but recent ones are
Jessie without systemd and with eudev.
David
On 23 April 2016 at 10:49, dev1fanboy wrote:
> Forgot to add, there were some l
ove
That's just what I did, not advice to anyone. If there is a better
solution than the above, please post it.
On 21 April 2016 at 19:12, Noel Torres wrote:
> David Hare escribió:
>
>> What is, or will be, official Devuan policy on this?
>
>
> This is one of the points
Thanks Daniel, the dmo packages seem no longer in the repo. I want to
to clean it all up and reinstall to current versions but that means
"downgrade". This gets quite complex as some depend on others:
:/# dpkg -l|grep "\-dmo"|grep "^ii"|awk '{print $2 "\t\t" $3}'
ffmpeg 10:2.6.5-dmo1
lame
ove
That's just what I did, not advice to anyone. If there is a better
solution than the above, please post it.
On 23 April 2016 at 11:52, David Hare wrote:
> Thanks Daniel, the dmo packages seem no longer in the repo. I want to
> to clean it all up and reinstall to current versions but
gvfs* builds and works (at least for Jessie) without *systemd* deps, I
have done it. I now use Adam's version (posted at angband.pl) for
XFCE. My TDE systems don't need gvfs (nor anything else GTK) to handle
usb mounts and "trash".
My "debian purist" attitude against custom and 3rd-party builds, a
On 26 April 2016 at 02:00, David Hare wrote:
> I recently did a devuan-based install on a quite new Dell laptop.
> Many things did not work properly (sound, wlan, touchpad). A newer
> "backport" kernel sorted it all.
>
> On 25 April 2016 at 20:19, fuumind wrote:
>&g
repo
> somewhere I can use or do I need to build it myself?
>
> /fuumind
>
>
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 21:27:39 -0400
> Hendrik Boom wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 02:01:46AM +0100, David Hare wrote:
>> > On 26 April 2016 at 02:00, David Hare wrote:
>&g
but still no scrolling.
>> >
>> > also:
>> >
>> > lsmod|grep -iE "apple|cyapa|sermouse|synap|psmouse|vsxx|bcm"
>> > btbcm 16384 1 btusb
>> > bluetooth 516096 24 bnep,btbcm,btrtl,btusb,btintel
>
Problem to come with pmount is, it doesn't seem to be maintained any
longer. I use version 0.9.99-alpha-1 (in experimental at 25 Mar 2011,
still there, install to Jessie). That one handles "loopback" and luks
files, far as I know earlier versions did not, or not properly.
D
On 27 April 2016 at 13
Testing this here with most impressive results! Some of us have been
doing devuan-based live images since the beginning. This is probably
the first without core system packages from 3rd-party repos ( the
refracta snapshot and installer utilities are not actually "core
system components").
Anyone w
ember just now how I fixed that on my
other install..
On 8 May 2016 at 11:05, fsmithred wrote:
> On 05/07/2016 08:36 PM, David Hare wrote:
>>
>> http://refracta.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=569
>>
>
> SPOILER ALERT!!! For anyone who didn't follow th
echo 'GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=`lsb_release -i -s 2> /dev/null || echo
Debian`' >> /etc/default/grub
Sorted, menu now shows "Devuan" after update-grub. This file is also
missing some other (mostly commented but informative) lines.
On 8 May 2016 at 12:24, David Hare w
Next test .. run refractasnapshot on my new install, while it's still clean.
Writing now from a "live session" of the resulting ISO, no apparent
problem whatsoever.
D
On 8 May 2016 at 13:07, fsmithred wrote:
> On 05/08/2016 07:24 AM, David Hare wrote:
>>> pleas
fsmithred wrote:
> On 05/08/2016 07:24 AM, David Hare wrote:
>>> please test also the install and other functionalities
>>
>> OK, I just did (step 1, the installer). Writing from my new install on
>> real hardware. The installation took 6 minutes on an old core2 with
pauses near the end, while the target partition
> is still mounted, allowing do do any manual tweaks or edits.
>
>
> On 8 May 2016 at 18:12, fsmithred wrote:
>> On 05/08/2016 07:24 AM, David Hare wrote:
>>>> please test also the install and other functionalities
>
>This sounds a bit like the problem we were having with Refracta when
>util-linux got upgraded to 2.25. One of the fixes for that was to populate
>/dev in filesystem.squashfs. I see that the solydxkee iso has an empty
>/dev in the squashfs
Yes.. a minimal static /dev, in exactly the same way that
Thanks Daniel.. note (others) that /etc/default/grub needs sorting
also, although nothing to do with os-prober. The Debian version is
enough, don't know why it's different in devuan (except the very
elegant gfx theme, that's where it has to be referenced)
On 9 May 2016 at 01:45, Joel Roth w
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=823856
Seems it's been reassigned to util-linux.. "'mount -o move' does not
work with virtual filesystems" That explains a lot.
Our minimal fixed /dev was enough that things still worked even if the
move failed.
On 9
Nice, well done. I always keep an installed minimal system. Only got
it going in qemu so far.. free -m (for what it's worth) shows 130 used
(5 17 74 shared buffers cache)
Had to guess user login and pw, it was devuan devuan.
Couldn't get root. You forgot to put "username=devuan" on the cmdline!
I
Using jmtpfs on more than one "real" Devuan installs, no problem
mounting mtp android. Here even libsystemd0 is excluded. I do have
(only) a few of Adam's packages installed but doubt if that makes any
difference.
D
On 11 May 2016 at 17:37, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Wed, 11 May 2016 17:12:21 +0100
This and similar live iso's only work here in qemu with e.g. " -m 384".
My hardware can't handle kvm.
D
On 13 May 2016 at 10:16, Jaromil wrote:
>
>
> ahoy,
>
> On Wed, 11 May 2016, KatolaZ wrote:
>
>> The results of those experiments can be found here:
>>
>> http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu/
>
> h
On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 01:46:20AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
>> David Hare wrote:
>> > This and similar live iso's only work here in qemu with e.g. " -m 384".
>> >
>> > My hardware can't handle kvm.
>>
>> Even running as root?
>&g
a fat-fomatted live usb (if you use
syslinux,for now a dummy /isolinux/isolinux.cfg in the usb's root is
needed )
D
On 13 May 2016 at 16:27, David Hare wrote:
> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 01:46:20AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
>>> David Hare wrote:
>>> > This and similar live iso
KatolaZ, you may be interested to know, I repacked your iso to 199MB
(with no actual system modifications) by using xz compression for the
squashfs and initrd. The result booted fine in qemu. The extra
decompression time is only a few seconds.
On 14 May 2016 at 08:34, aitor_czr wrote:
>
>
> On 05
:45:31AM +0100, David Hare wrote:
>> KatolaZ, you may be interested to know, I repacked your iso to 199MB
>> (with no actual system modifications) by using xz compression for the
>> squashfs and initrd. The result booted fine in qemu. The extra
>> decompression time is only a
cta (with e17, put together by
> meandean) and whatever version of Antix was current then with only 64mb ram
> on hardware. Has the initrd grown that much since then?
>
>
> On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 7:32 AM, David Hare wrote:
>>
>> I look forward to your findings on initrd and
actly the same input files.
D
On 14 May 2016 at 13:25, David Hare wrote:
> The standard Debian initrd has grown enormously since the days of squeeze..
>
> The devuan-minimal iso's initrd is 27.1 MB gzip-compressed, 18.6
> xz-compressed and.. 186.1MB unpacked!
>
> Far as I kno
+1 for ditching Zenity in all cases. It's gnome/gtk3 dependencies have
become monstrous and has very little in the way of new features in
recent "development".
Yad has been described as "zenity on steroids" but does not depend on
a load of gnome.
Yad is actually now in Debian Sid. We've been
KatolaZ, FYI, I noticed your iso has empty /dev and a patched
/usr/share/initramfs-tools/init (and uses an older
refracta-snapshot)..
That patch was a workaround in refracta-snapshot for bug(s) which only
last week got officially noted. The original file is still there but
renamed (this only affec
t anyone using older versions.
Note newer (e.g. backport) kernels need newer live-* (aufs was dropped
for overlay)
D
On 16 May 2016 at 13:34, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 01:15:40PM +0100, David Hare wrote:
>> KatolaZ, FYI, I noticed your iso has empty /dev and a patched
>&
Boruch, the iso boots from isolinux, (isolinux/live.cfg), grub is not involved.
My notes (so far):
What is ${netconfig_opt} in live.cfg?
What is udevuan.cfg?
"vga=792" may fail in some case, probably best not set as default
Menu entry "(nofb)": Runlevel 3 has no special meaning for this iso
(R
n Wed, May 18, 2016 at 09:44:23AM +0100, David Hare wrote:
>>> What is ${netconfig_opt} in live.cfg?
>>>
>>
>> It's coming from refracta, I guess. It should probably be removed in
>> the future.
>
> Yes, ${netconfig_opt} is from refractasnapshot and can
Did "real" installations, both the original and the beta (bios
machine). Went fast and flawlessly in both cases with
refractainstaller.
However, the "beta" failed to boot (to that installation) with a
kernel panic.. update-grub had failed to configure
/boot/initrd_devuan.img
I made an entry in /e
Interesting experiment..
I repacked fsr's iso (otherwise unmodified) using the initrd from the
devuan-minimal-beta. That initrd was also repacked and xz-compressed
(now 8.5MB).
I booted it "findiso" (from iso file on an ext4 partition) with a
"live-hook" script, which automatically loads my speci
>I do mind that it wants libsystemd0
Seems there are only "unofficial" apt-cacher-ng nosystemd builds at
the moment, mine is here:
http://www.exegnulinux.net/nosystemd/pool/main/a/apt-cacher-ng/ ..
Maybe Adam's repo has one also. Or build your own.
Although I prefer to not to use 3rd-party repos
Anto, you are the 4th to attempt eudev packaging (including me).
Dimitri Puzin began this but did not finish the job. It's one thing to
get something new working but to be on the case of it's continued
maintenance is much more.
Actually, I didn't know till now you were doing this and the only
work
> Thanks David. Do you maintain the source of your eudev package on a git
> repository? If so, would it be possible to share that with us?
>
No. All there is are the debs and sources posted earlier. It's really
a one-off, I don't have the required time and skills to actually
"maintain" it.
antiX
From memory, my eudev package builds were named *udev* not *eudev*
because of problems with "provides:" not being enough to satisfy udev
dependency requirements of other packages. I even tried "dummy" udev
packages at one point but that seemed messy.
On 24/12/2016, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Sat,
in future.
Please do post the deb packages. Thanks Anto, you did a great job.
Next.. consolekit2? http://exegnulinux.net/nosystemd/pool/main/c/consolekit/
On 25/12/2016, Anto wrote:
>
> On 24/12/16 22:17, David Hare wrote:
>>> Thanks David. Do you maintain the source of yo
Apparently due to the systemd agenda of it's original maintainers,
ConsoleKit is "deprecated".
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/distributor-list/2012-January/msg2.html
Consolekit2 is forked and actively maintained by XFCE4 maintainer Eric Koegel.
https://consolekit2.github.io/ConsoleKit2/
It
My packages, with sources, are posted here:
http://exegnulinux.net/apt/pool/main/c/consolekit2/
They could probably do with some "tidying up" from someone with better
packaging experience than myself.
David
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Dng@lists.dyne.org
https
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=801631
Not tested it yet but it's now marked as fixed. Devuan should now
display correctly in our grub menus without need for "hacks".
D
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Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=801631
Not tested it yet but it's now marked as fixed. Devuan should now
display correctly in grub menus without need for "hacks".
Cheers, D
___
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Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.d
Repo version requires libsystemd0 but recompiled here without (not
difficult) and working normally.
D
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Probably only TDE/TQT.. which almost nobody seems to have noticed.
On 22/02/2017, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 08:55:54PM +, Dave Turner wrote:
>> >Thankfully the Clearlooks-Phenix-Purpy theme still handles synaptic
>> > etc.in
>> jessie.
>> >We may have to rethink the defaul
Didn't mean to actually suggest TDE for any default nor that the main
focus should be other than getting Devuan Jessie ready. XFCE4 is fine
(for now).
Just pointing out, TDE has an extensive application set (including an
office suit) with no need of gtk -anything (they forked qt3 for it)
nor syste
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