Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On 14/12 23:31, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 09:31:02PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote: > > Le 13/12/2020 à 03:15, Steve Litt a écrit : > > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 15:53:35 +0100 > > > Didier Kryn wrote: > > > > > > > > >>     I don't make it an argument against xdm. Just cheating about y

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 09:31:02PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote: > Le 13/12/2020 à 03:15, Steve Litt a écrit : > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 15:53:35 +0100 > > Didier Kryn wrote: > > > > > >>     I don't make it an argument against xdm. Just cheating about your > >> own arguments (~: > > Didier, why didn't

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

Le 13/12/2020 à 03:15, Steve Litt a écrit : > On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 15:53:35 +0100 > Didier Kryn wrote: > > >>     I don't make it an argument against xdm. Just cheating about your >> own arguments (~: > Didier, why didn't you make that suggestion to me 15 years ago? It's a > brilliant way to guaran

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 15:53:35 +0100 Didier Kryn wrote: >     I don't make it an argument against xdm. Just cheating about your > own arguments (~: Didier, why didn't you make that suggestion to me 15 years ago? It's a brilliant way to guarantee that if somebody logs out of X, they have no logged

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 10:31:38PM -0500, Mason Loring Bliss wrote: > On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 02:42:30PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > > > Wait a minute. When you say "without GUI", do you mean no X installed, > > or do you mean it lacks the display manager to boot directly into X? > > The former pre

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

Hi, On 12/11/20 1:16 PM, aitor wrote: Hi Dimitris, On 12/11/20 12:23 PM, Dimitris via Dng wrote: yes, running `apt purge elogind` in testing/ceres brings in consolekit instead. don't have a ascii/beowulf with xorg to test, but should be the same. The same in beowulf, one can purge elogi

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 03:48:06PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote: > I guess in Bash you could just issue 'exec startx', in which case bash > would go away, returning memory and leaving no place for intrusion. Oh, I hadn't considered that! Yeah, that should win. Thank you for the new perspective!

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

Le 11/12/2020 à 04:31, Mason Loring Bliss a écrit : >> Wait a minute. When you say "without GUI", do you mean no X installed, >> or do you mean it lacks the display manager to boot directly into X? >> The former precludes desktop use; the latter is how I use my computer >> every day, because startx

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On 12/11/20 1:52 PM, aitor wrote: apt "install" (libsystemd0 | libelogind0)removes elogind , but xorg will remain in the system instead. (libsystemd0 | consolekit) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/li

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

Hi, On 12/11/20 11:55 AM, Steve Litt wrote: I'm a little slow, so let me repeat my question a different way. Is there any way you can remove elogind with apt remove --purge elogind; with xorg installed? SteveT The fact that apt "purge" removes the whole xserver-xorg stuff together with libel

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

Hi Dimitris, On 12/11/20 12:23 PM, Dimitris via Dng wrote: yes, running `apt purge elogind` in testing/ceres brings in consolekit instead. don't have a ascii/beowulf with xorg to test, but should be the same. The same in beowulf, one can purge elogind (required by xserver-xorg-core) insta

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

Hi, On 12/11/20 1:07 PM, aitor wrote: Hi Steve, On 12/11/20 11:55 AM, Steve Litt wrote: I'm a little slow, so let me repeat my question a different way. Is there any way you can remove elogind with apt remove --purge elogind; with xorg installed? The short answer: yes, installing libsystemd

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

Hi Steve, On 12/11/20 11:55 AM, Steve Litt wrote: I'm a little slow, so let me repeat my question a different way. Is there any way you can remove elogind with apt remove --purge elogind; with xorg installed? The short answer: yes, installing libsystemd0 [*] Cheers, Aitor. [*] Under beowulf

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On 12/11/20 12:55 PM, Steve Litt wrote: Is there any way you can remove elogind with apt remove --purge elogind; with xorg installed? yes, running `apt purge elogind` in testing/ceres brings in consolekit instead. don't have a ascii/beowulf with xorg to test, but should be the same. __

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 23:02:30 +0100 Adrian Zaugg wrote: > On 10.12.20 20:42, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 01:40:39 +0100 > > Adrian Zaugg wrote: > > > > Wait a minute. When you say "without GUI", do you mean no X > > installed, > > I just mean no GUI, because with a GUI I don't k

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 10:31:38PM -0500, Mason Loring Bliss wrote: > Also, for laughs, in Beowulf, the xdm binary consumes 117K on disk, There's a pandemic on, so I'll forgive myself a little OCD. Sorted by RSS: $ ps uq 21538 USER PID %CPU %MEMVSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COM

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 02:42:30PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > Wait a minute. When you say "without GUI", do you mean no X installed, > or do you mean it lacks the display manager to boot directly into X? > The former precludes desktop use; the latter is how I use my computer > every day, because s

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On 10.12.20 20:42, Steve Litt wrote: > On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 01:40:39 +0100 > Adrian Zaugg wrote: > > Wait a minute. When you say "without GUI", do you mean no X installed, I just mean no GUI, because with a GUI I don't know exactly. I know there are some Desktop environments that need it, it se

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 01:40:39 +0100 Adrian Zaugg wrote: > On 01.12.20 15:16, Mason Loring Bliss wrote: > > This brings us to the other thing worthy of note. Try sometime to > > install Devuan (not Debian, Devuan) without systemd and you'll be > > in for a rude shock. It's installed by default, and

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

Hi Adrian, On 12/10/20 12:46 PM, Adrian Zaugg wrote: Hi aitor $ apt-rdepends openssh-server Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done openssh-server Depends: adduser (>= 3.9) Depends: debconf (>= 0.5) Depends: debconf-2.0 Depends: dpkg

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

Hi aitor $ apt-rdepends openssh-server Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done openssh-server Depends: adduser (>= 3.9) Depends: debconf (>= 0.5) Depends: debconf-2.0 Depends: dpkg (>= 1.9.0) Depends: libaudit1 (>= 1:2.2.1) Depends: libc

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

Hi again, On 12/10/20 11:31 AM, aitor wrote: Hi Adrian On 12/10/20 1:40 AM, Adrian Zaugg wrote: libsystemd0 gets pulled in by openssh-server and thus is present on many of my systems – unfortunately. This is for the ssh-agent service, used by systemd, which should be optional. This is i

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

Hi Adrian On 12/10/20 1:40 AM, Adrian Zaugg wrote: libsystemd0 gets pulled in by openssh-server and thus is present on many of my systems – unfortunately. This is for the ssh-agent service, used by systemd, which should be optional. Cheers, Aitor.

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 01:40:39AM +0100, Adrian Zaugg wrote: > What shows > > apt remove --dry-run elogind I'll try to get a chance to do a new install, as I should figure out just what's pulling in what. I'll post this as soon as I've got it. I'm not sure what's pulling it in during debo

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On 01.12.20 15:16, Mason Loring Bliss wrote: > This brings us to the other thing worthy of note. Try sometime to install > Devuan (not Debian, Devuan) without systemd and you'll be in for a rude > shock. It's installed by default, and it's a massive pain to eradicate it. What shows apt

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 13:20:53 -0500 Hendrik Boom wrote: > libsystemd0 is, as I've been told, a library that provides the > interfaces provided by systemd without the content. For example, > a typical systemd feature will, as implemented in libsystemd0, > merely report back in the proper manner

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 09:22:03PM -0500, Mason Loring Bliss wrote: > On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 09:33:16AM +0900, Simon Walter wrote: > > > We were talking about libsystemd0 being a stub. > > It's not a stub. There's a bunch of functionality in there. A ton of it. > The elogind porters (who are di

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 09:33:16AM +0900, Simon Walter wrote: > We were talking about libsystemd0 being a stub. It's not a stub. There's a bunch of functionality in there. A ton of it. The elogind porters (who are distinct from Devuan/Debian maintainers) have ifdef'd out a large amount of stuff,

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On 12/9/20 7:01 AM, Mason Loring Bliss wrote: On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 09:56:54AM +0900, Simon Walter wrote: Unfortunately for those who are scared of source code and perhaps those who are scared in general, it is all too easy to become paranoid. After all, you are at the mercy of those who are

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 05:01:49PM -0500, Mason Loring Bliss wrote: > Let's start with how much systemd code we're talking about. Admittedly, I'm > not cutting out comments or whitespace here, but even so: > > .../elogind-241.4/src$ find . -name '*.c' -exec cat {} \; | wc -l > 125582 Alr

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 09:56:54AM +0900, Simon Walter wrote: > Unfortunately for those who are scared of source code and perhaps those > who are scared in general, it is all too easy to become paranoid. After > all, you are at the mercy of those who are not scared. I'd say, pick up > programming

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Tue, Dec 01, 2020 at 09:59:01AM -0500, Mason Loring Bliss wrote: > On Tue, Dec 01, 2020 at 03:33:41PM +0100, Antony Stone wrote: > > > What, specifically, gets installed as part of Devuan which you don't want > > to > > see there? > > As an exercise, try doing a minimal install via debootstr

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On 2020-12-01 23:59, Mason Loring Bliss wrote: > On Tue, Dec 01, 2020 at 03:33:41PM +0100, Antony Stone wrote: > >> What, specifically, gets installed as part of Devuan which you don't want to >> see there? > > As an exercise, try doing a minimal install via debootstrap, which is > arguably the

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 09:59:01 -0500, Mason wrote in message <20201201145900.gv5...@blisses.org>: > On Tue, Dec 01, 2020 at 03:33:41PM +0100, Antony Stone wrote: > > > What, specifically, gets installed as part of Devuan which you > > don't want to see there? > > As an exercise, try doing a mini

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Tue, Dec 01, 2020 at 03:33:41PM +0100, Antony Stone wrote: > What, specifically, gets installed as part of Devuan which you don't want to > see there? As an exercise, try doing a minimal install via debootstrap, which is arguably the easiest way to tailor an install. I've thus far not managed

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Tuesday 01 December 2020 at 15:16:57, Mason Loring Bliss wrote: > This brings us to the other thing worthy of note. Try sometime to install > Devuan (not Debian, Devuan) without systemd and you'll be in for a rude > shock. It's installed by default, and it's a massive pain to eradicate it. Ple

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 05:34:48PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > The fact that Redhat is #64 tells me not that many people are buying > their stupid support, Lest we get too excited, let me note two things: https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=faq#phr This says, What is this "Page H

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

never learned anything at DW by looking statistics.. some guides and reviews were helpful... On 12/1/20 12:34 AM, Steve Litt wrote: fact that Redhat is #64 certainly not a fact. this is just a number without value. just a "Page Hit Rank"... if i was to guess, i'd say "serious corporate exe

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 20:16:48 +0900 Olaf Meeuwissen wrote: > Hi Steve, > > Steve Litt writes: > > > Hi all, > > > > Devuan's #34 on Distrowatch. Not too shabby! > > > > Runit using Void is #40. Redhat, the clowns who started this whole > > systemd thing, are down at #64. > > I don't want to s

Re: [DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

Hi Steve, Steve Litt writes: > Hi all, > > Devuan's #34 on Distrowatch. Not too shabby! > > Runit using Void is #40. Redhat, the clowns who started this whole > systemd thing, are down at #64. I don't want to spoil your party but have you looked at Fedora, at #8, and CentOS, at #19? The fact th

[DNG] What I learned at Distrowatch

Hi all, Devuan's #34 on Distrowatch. Not too shabby! Runit using Void is #40. Redhat, the clowns who started this whole systemd thing, are down at #64. Meanwhile, at #18, AntiX offers a choice between sysvinit and runit. And at #50, Artix offers a choice between OpenRC, runit and s6. It's wonde