Hi KatolaZ,
KatolaZ writes:
> On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 09:14:06PM +0900, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
>>
>> # Those are a non-serious suggestion and a rethorical question, in case
>> # that didn't come across.
>>
>> So, I'm against a *forced* /usr merge. I hope Debian does the right
>> thin
Hi Nik,
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp writes:
> Hi Olaf!
>
> Am Samstag, 17. November 2018 schrieb Olaf Meeuwissen:
>> Hi Nik,
>>
>> Dr. Nikolaus Klepp writes:
>>
>> > [...] The initrams tool provide a handy way to inspect/modify/rebuild
>> > initrd. But the debian documentation on how initrd works is wrong
On 2018-11-17 21:36, Alessandro Selli wrote:
On 18/11/18 at 02:01, goli...@dyne.org wrote:
On 2018-11-17 17:26, Alessandro Selli wrote:
On 17/11/18 at 21:35, goli...@dyne.org wrote:
On 2018-11-17 14:08, Alessandro Selli wrote:
Devuan cannot forever be just a lifeboat. Let's be a little
am
On 18/11/18 at 02:01, goli...@dyne.org wrote:
> On 2018-11-17 17:26, Alessandro Selli wrote:
>> On 17/11/18 at 21:35, goli...@dyne.org wrote:
>>> On 2018-11-17 14:08, Alessandro Selli wrote:
Devuan cannot forever be just a lifeboat. Let's be a little
ambitious! Let's strive to ha
On 11/17/2018 08:43 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 18:53:59 -0500, etech3 wrote in message
<5bf0aa17.9030...@e-tech-systems.com>:
On 11/17/2018 06:26 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 12:32:59 +0100, Martin wrote in message
<44080848.gBCAc932W8@merkaba>:
Martin Steig
On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 02:28:25AM +0100, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 01:21:05 +0100, Miroslav wrote in message
> <075cb09d-9f17-1610-ced5-7ad556f5e...@uns.ac.rs>:
>
> > On 11/17/18 3:18 PM, Didier Kryn wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The advantage of separating /usr is
On Tue, 13 Nov 2018 03:05:52 +0100, Arnt wrote in message
<20181113030552.5c11cc4c@d44>:
> On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 00:30:13 +0100, Arnt wrote in message
> <20181110003013.7da03e07@d44>:
>
> > On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 17:48:05 +0100, info wrote in message
> > :
> > >
> > > Sounds like a bug, file a bu
On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 18:53:59 -0500, etech3 wrote in message
<5bf0aa17.9030...@e-tech-systems.com>:
> On 11/17/2018 06:26 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> > On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 12:32:59 +0100, Martin wrote in message
> > <44080848.gBCAc932W8@merkaba>:
> >
> >> Martin Steigerwald - 16.11.18, 16:04:
>
On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 01:21:05 +0100, Miroslav wrote in message
<075cb09d-9f17-1610-ced5-7ad556f5e...@uns.ac.rs>:
> On 11/17/18 3:18 PM, Didier Kryn wrote:
>
>
>
>
> >
> > The advantage of separating /usr is it can be mounted after
> > boot. /bin and /sbin (and /lib) contain the critical
On 2018-11-17 17:26, Alessandro Selli wrote:
On 17/11/18 at 21:35, goli...@dyne.org wrote:
On 2018-11-17 14:08, Alessandro Selli wrote:
Devuan cannot forever be just a lifeboat. Let's be a little
ambitious! Let's strive to have Devuan have a life of it's own, not
just
being a lesser Debian
On 11/17/18 3:18 PM, Didier Kryn wrote:
The advantage of separating /usr is it can be mounted after boot.
/bin and /sbin (and /lib) contain the critical applications (and
library) necessary to boot the system, and they are, by necessity, part
of the root filesystem. Merging /usr mean
On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 21:26:07 +, Daniel wrote in message
<0ed76638-06d3-bf40-7485-38905d46d...@danielabrecht.ch>:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've taken a look at purisms' image-builder scripts, and then made my
> own for the devkit based on them to get an overview of all the
> components and how th
On Sun, Nov 18, 2018 at 12:22:18AM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote:
> I'm well aware of the present limitations that make it impossible to
> let Devuan be an indipendent distribution: too little manpower behind it
> and too llittle corporate/VC support for it. It could well be that
> Devuan will n
On 11/17/2018 06:26 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 12:32:59 +0100, Martin wrote in message
<44080848.gBCAc932W8@merkaba>:
Martin Steigerwald - 16.11.18, 16:04:
In any case: Regarding a decision I'd take the amount of effort into
account which would be needed to divert from Debian'
On 17/11/18 at 22:26, Daniel Abrecht wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've taken a look at purisms' image-builder scripts, and then made my
> own for the devkit based on them to get an overview of all the
> components and how things work together. I don't have a devkit yet, so
> I don't have any idea if t
On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 12:32:59 +0100, Martin wrote in message
<44080848.gBCAc932W8@merkaba>:
> Martin Steigerwald - 16.11.18, 16:04:
> > In any case: Regarding a decision I'd take the amount of effort into
> > account which would be needed to divert from Debian's default. As
> > long as Debian stil
On 17/11/18 at 21:35, goli...@dyne.org wrote:
> On 2018-11-17 14:08, Alessandro Selli wrote:
>>
>> Devuan cannot forever be just a lifeboat. Let's be a little
>> ambitious! Let's strive to have Devuan have a life of it's own, not
>> just
>> being a lesser Debian.
>>
>
> And just what will your
On 17/11/18 at 23:24, Simon Hobson wrote:
> Alessandro Selli wrote:
>
>> If Devuan is going to have a brilliant future it is going to disenfranchise
>> itself from Debian. Being forever a Debian without systemd will keep it in
>> the backseat, vulnerable to all the odd decisions and arguable de
Hi,
I've upgraded one of my servers from Devuan Jessie to Devuan ASCII and
had some issues.
First the initramfs failed to work properly as I have custom scripts for
the setup, one of the scripts sets up a bunch of useful tools for the
initramfs environment and that part was fine.
But a differen
On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 11:22:59AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 02:20:30PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> > I note without objection (but rather with active appreciation, on
> > entertainment grounds) that every single one of your talking point so
> > far -- including the one above
On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 11:23:04 +0100, Harald wrote in message
:
> Arnt Karlsen [11/17/18 12:58 AM]:
>
> > On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 23:45:39 +0100, Harald wrote in message
> > :
> >
> >> Hendrik Boom [11/16/18 7:08 PM]:
> >>
> >> > (2) What is initramfs good for?
> >>
> >> Early loading of C
On 17/11/18 at 22:25, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Daniel Reurich::
>
>> I don't want it.
>> My view seems to coincide with Rich Moens.
> I'm still curious who these Rich Moens are.
How many of you are there? Aren't you rich? 😃
--
Alessandro Selli
VOIP SIP: dhatarat...@ekiga.net
Chiave fir
On Sat, 17 Nov 2018 02:53:27 -0500, Steve wrote in message
<20181117025327.5e5ba...@mydesk.domain.cxm>:
> Now personally, my root partition is on an ssd, and it includes /usr
> so all my /usr/bin, /usr/local/bin, etc, come straight off SSD at
> lightning speed. I like it like that. But a lot of p
On 17/11/18 at 22:22, Joel Roth wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 02:20:30PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
>
>> I note without objection (but rather with active appreciation, on
>> entertainment grounds) that every single one of your talking point so
>> far -- including the one above -- appear to have bee
Alessandro Selli wrote:
> If Devuan is going to have a brilliant future it is going to disenfranchise
> itself from Debian. Being forever a Debian without systemd will keep it in
> the backseat, vulnerable to all the odd decisions and arguable development
> directions that Devuan/FD are going
On 17/11/18 at 15:56, Harald Arnesen wrote:
> Alessandro Selli [11/17/18 1:48 PM]:
>> Il 16/11/18 23:44, Harald Arnesen ha scritto:
>>> Irrwahn [11/16/18 9:10 PM]:
>>>
On System V Release 4 and later /bin has already been a symlink to
/usr/bin, and Solaris implemented the /usr merge abou
Quoting Daniel Reurich::
> I don't want it.
> My view seems to coincide with Rich Moens.
I'm still curious who these Rich Moens are. Perhaps a clone conspiracy
as in Orphan Black -- or a franchise like Dread Pirate Roberts[tm]? ;->
--
Cheers,"I never quarrel with a man who buys
Hi everyone,
I've taken a look at purisms' image-builder scripts, and then made my
own for the devkit based on them to get an overview of all the
components and how things work together. I don't have a devkit yet, so I
don't have any idea if the images generated by my scripts will actually
bo
On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 02:20:30PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> I note without objection (but rather with active appreciation, on
> entertainment grounds) that every single one of your talking point so
> far -- including the one above -- appear to have been copied
> near-verbatim from the pair of Fre
On 2018-11-17 14:08, Alessandro Selli wrote:
Devuan cannot forever be just a lifeboat. Let's be a little
ambitious! Let's strive to have Devuan have a life of it's own, not
just
being a lesser Debian.
And just what will your contribution(s) be towards making that a reality
(besides che
Quoting Alessandro Selli (alessandrose...@linux.com):
> I am one of those who can't do without initramfs because I mostly run
> GNU/Linux on laptops and for obvious security reasons they all run on
> fully encrypted filesystems, / included.
True enough. One of several legitimate edge cases.
>
Il 16/11/18 16:46, Clarke Sideroad ha scritto:
> On 2018-11-16 4:11 a.m., Daniel Reurich wrote:
>> Hi Devuan followers, fans and friends,
>>
>> Debian as of the upcoming Buster release looks to be implementing a
>> merged /usr by default. At this stage there is no plan to make it
>> forced... but
Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
> If you want to boot directly to the disk, then don't use a distro.
I very much do not concur.
Since 1992 -- with a gap when I was lazy for a long time -- I've found
it useful to construct bespoke kernels for my systems that compile
inline the essential dri
On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 08:31:33PM +0100, k...@aspodata.se wrote:
> Daniel Reurich:
> ...
> > So... for Devuan, do we want to default to a merged /usr in our coming
> > release of Beowulf or are we going to resist another pointless
> > rearranging of the deck chairs...
>
> I don't want it.
> My vi
Hi Olaf!
Am Samstag, 17. November 2018 schrieb Olaf Meeuwissen:
> Hi Nik,
>
> Dr. Nikolaus Klepp writes:
>
> > [...] The initrams tool provide a handy way to inspect/modify/rebuild
> > initrd. But the debian documentation on how initrd works is wrong: it
> > assumes a one part archive (which is
Didier:
...
> If you want to boot directly to the disk, then don't use a distro.
,,,
I boot directly to disk, why shouldn't I use a distro ?
I see no downside of using a distro, I just choose what parts I want
to use.
Regards,
/Karl Hammar
--
On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 01:43:14PM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote:
>
> A separate /usr might have been introduced for the silliest an maybe
> even wrongest of the reasons, fact is that it turned out to be a very
> good filesystem layout concept that introduced flexibility and the
> possibility of
On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 02:02:17PM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote:
> >
> > Just like */bin and */sbin are useful to distinguish between programs
> > intended for general use and system administration use, the distinction
> > between / and /usr is useful to tell critical and non-critical programs
> >
Alessandro Selli [11/17/18 1:48 PM]:
>
> Il 16/11/18 23:44, Harald Arnesen ha scritto:
>> Irrwahn [11/16/18 9:10 PM]:
>>
>>> On System V Release 4 and later /bin has already been a symlink to
>>> /usr/bin, and Solaris implemented the /usr merge about a decade ago.
>>> Effectively, only some Unice
On 17/11/18 at 13:03, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 12:57:23PM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote:
>> On 16/11/18 at 11:43, KatolaZ wrote:
>>> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 10:19:30AM +, Rowland Penny wrote:
>>>
>>> [cut]
>>>
So, after reading Steve's enlightening description, I am with hi
On 16/11/18 at 13:24, spiralofhope wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 04:10:17 -0800
> spiralofhope wrote:
>
>> I conclude this is a transitory step toward making this mandatory;
>> something like propagating the idea to ease transitional pains.
> Oh, and I suppose I could chime in on the notion of Devu
Le 16/11/2018 à 10:50, Rowland Penny a écrit :
On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 22:11:17 +1300
Daniel Reurich wrote:
Hi Devuan followers, fans and friends,
Debian as of the upcoming Buster release looks to be implementing a
merged /usr by default. At this stage there is no plan to make it
forced... but y
On 16/11/18 at 23:48, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 05:11:01 -0500, Steve wrote in message
> <20181116051101.4d06f...@mydesk.domain.cxm>:
>
>> I vote against "the merge".
> ..I too vote against "the merge"!
>
My vote is against a default merge.
As I am in favour of more, not less
On 16/11/18 at 21:01, Simon Hobson wrote:
> Hendrik Boom wrote:
>
>> (1) Is initramfs so weird that only one or two people in the world can make
>> one?
> **AT THE MOMENT** no it isn't. AIUI (and I stand to be corrected) it's simply
> a CPIO archive that's been (optionally) compressed. So it can
On 17/11/18 at 13:14, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:
> Hi Katolaz,
>
> KatolaZ writes:
>
>> On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 11:45:03AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
>>
>> [cut]
>>
>>> OK, before we continue with a flame about what is wrong and what is
>>> right: it seems that the transition to the merged usr is *not*
>>>
KatolaZ - 17.11.18, 13:03:
> On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 12:57:23PM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote:
> > On 16/11/18 at 11:43, KatolaZ wrote:
> > > On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 10:19:30AM +, Rowland Penny wrote:
> > >
> > > [cut]
> > >
> > >> So, after reading Steve's enlightening description, I am with
Il 16/11/18 23:44, Harald Arnesen ha scritto:
> Irrwahn [11/16/18 9:10 PM]:
>
>> On System V Release 4 and later /bin has already been a symlink to
>> /usr/bin, and Solaris implemented the /usr merge about a decade ago.
>> Effectively, only some Unices and some Linux based distributions are
>> t
On 16/11/18 at 12:08, Irrwahn wrote:
> Steve Litt wrote on 16.11.18 11:11:
>> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 22:11:17 +1300
>> Daniel Reurich wrote:
> [...]
>>> So... for Devuan, do we want to default to a merged /usr in our coming
>>> release of Beowulf or are we going to resist another pointless
>>> rearra
Hi,
Steve Litt writes:
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 20:19:57 +0100
> Irrwahn wrote:
>
>> Hendrik Boom wrote on 16.11.18 19:08:
>> [...]
>> > (2) What is initramfs good for? Linux used to work just fine
>> > without it.
>>
>> It's only needed if you have to do stuff before running the `real´
>> init pr
On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 09:14:06PM +0900, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote:
[cut]
>
> # Those are a non-serious suggestion and a rethorical question, in case
> # that didn't come across.
>
> So, I'm against a *forced* /usr merge. I hope Debian does the right
> thing but if necessary, I would like to see
Hi Nik,
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp writes:
> [...] The initrams tool provide a handy way to inspect/modify/rebuild
> initrd. But the debian documentation on how initrd works is wrong: it
> assumes a one part archive (which is what you would expect), but in
> fact it is a 2 part archive (first part uncomr
Hi Katolaz,
KatolaZ writes:
> On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 11:45:03AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
>>
>> OK, before we continue with a flame about what is wrong and what is
>> right: it seems that the transition to the merged usr is *not*
>> mandatory so far, but it is actually performed at insta
Steve Litt:
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 20:01:30 +
> Simon Hobson wrote:
> > > (2) What is initramfs good for? Linux used to work just fine
> > > without it.
Still does. I guess initrd is good when you have unknown hardware,
and thus good to use for a distribution.
> > Yes, I remember the days
On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 12:57:23PM +0100, Alessandro Selli wrote:
> On 16/11/18 at 11:43, KatolaZ wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 10:19:30AM +, Rowland Penny wrote:
> >
> > [cut]
> >
> >> So, after reading Steve's enlightening description, I am with him, the
> >> merge is only needed by syst
On 16/11/18 at 11:43, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 10:19:30AM +, Rowland Penny wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
>> So, after reading Steve's enlightening description, I am with him, the
>> merge is only needed by systemd and seems to be a way of forcing it on
>> everybody, so I am against it.
>>
Martin Steigerwald - 16.11.18, 16:04:
> In any case: Regarding a decision I'd take the amount of effort into
> account which would be needed to divert from Debian's default. As long
> as Debian still supports the usr split, I bet that effort would be
> minimal, but as soon as packages appear that j
Rich Moen:
...
> Moreover, I'm
> sufficiently unhappy with udev that I'm currently testing migration away
> from it to reduce system complexity and protect security. mdev's
> looking promising. (And no, I don't care if it's popular, as long as
> it's popular with me.)
...
I use a classic static
On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 11:45:03AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
[cut]
>
> OK, before we continue with a flame about what is wrong and what is
> right: it seems that the transition to the merged usr is *not*
> mandatory so far, but it is actually performed at install time. I am
> currently trying to und
On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 03:20:15AM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 21:10:54 +0100
> Irrwahn wrote:
>
>
> > The part about "acquire, monopolize and decompatablize the tools to
> > create initramfs" is ridiculous,
>
> The preceding half sentence encapsulates the belief difference
Am Samstag, 17. November 2018 schrieb Steve Litt:
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 21:10:54 +0100
> Irrwahn wrote:
> [...]
> > as an initrd is nothing more than an
> > (optionally compressed) cpio archive, loaded by the Linux kernel
> > itself.
>
> The preceding is exactly like saying, "as an init system i
Arnt Karlsen [11/17/18 12:58 AM]:
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 23:45:39 +0100, Harald wrote in message
> :
>
>> Hendrik Boom [11/16/18 7:08 PM]:
>>
>> > (2) What is initramfs good for?
>>
>> Early loading of CPU microcode update.
>
>
> ..this is the only good reason for it?
Not the only good rea
On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 21:10:54 +0100
Irrwahn wrote:
> The part about "acquire, monopolize and decompatablize the tools to
> create initramfs" is ridiculous,
The preceding half sentence encapsulates the belief difference that
causes our different stances on merging /sbin with anything else. PRF
On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 20:01:30 +
Simon Hobson wrote:
> > (2) What is initramfs good for? Linux used to work just fine
> > without it.
>
> Yes, I remember the days of having to have either a) a huge kernel
> with everything including the kitchen sink linked in, or b) having to
> relink the
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