> I'm not an expert in this sort of things, but I would suggest you at least
> change that to an HMAC.
Good suggestion. Thanks.
Mostly, this code has to be backwards compatible. It's setup to do digests:
EVP_DigestInit_ex(...); // setup for digest type
EVP_DigestInit_ex(...);
EVP_D
after waf has built it.
And/or where should I look to find that info?
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I find this in our documentation:
page. [red]#Note: Potential
It comes through unmodified in the html version.
I assume it's trying to make some text stand out.
How do I make colored text and/or is that the right way to do it?
Is there an example I can copy?
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Where is that documented?
Context is I'm working on documentation. Often, I'm removing stuff that is
no longer relevant. Sometimes that requires checking the code. Some of the
code needs cleaning up too. I think - maybe I just don't understand it yet.
We treat peer in ntp.conf as an alias
>> Looks like the shannn are blessed by FIPS 180-4
>> I'll update the doc to mention them.
> Better check to make sure the support is in place first. I think I remember
> floating a patch for that only to have Daniel thumbs-down it and say he
> was going to do do that.
That turned into an intere
I just pushed lots of documentation updates, mostly in the crypto area.
(No thumbs up/down message from the autobuild stuff yet. I guess it's
sleeping.)
There is (much?) more work to do.
I'm going to take a break from documentation for a while.
There is a new hack in attic/digest.c
It works on
>> I find this in our documentation:
>> page. [red]#Note: Potential
...
> http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/chunked/ch10.html
Thanks, but I didn't want to get in that deep. I was looking for something
simple I could copy.
As far as I can tell, we don't use colors. (That's probably good. It'
rlaa...@wiktel.com said:
[Running with Python3]
Thanks.
> That way, the scripts can be run directly from the source tree (with the /
> usr/bin/env shebang).
I don't think running directly out of the source tree is very interesting.
Many of the python programs need our python libraries and one
Was: Subject: Re: What packet modes do we support?
Eric said:
>> Context is I'm working on documentation. Often, I'm removing
>> stuff that is no longer relevant. Sometimes that requires checking
>> the code. Some of the code needs cleaning up too. I think - maybe
>> I just don't understand it
>> I don't think running directly out of the source tree is very
>> interesting.
> OTOH, a bunch of programs, like ntplogtemp, that used to be able to run
> in tree, no longer can. I think that is our loss. Creeping complexity
> for no real user benefit.
Sometimes life is tough.
python ntpclie
https://gitlab.com/NTPsec/ntpsec/issues/446
This is likely to involve some discussion so I moved it here where that will
be more convenient.
We should be supporting longer digests. Wikipedia says:
NIST's directive that U.S. government agencies must stop uses of SHA-1 after
2010 was hoped to ac
I figured out why I didn't get the expected response from GitLab's build
checker the other day. I forgot to do the push. Blush/Sigh.
This just arrived:
Subject: ntpsec | Pipeline #15898502 has failed for master | e349aa13
WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!
libcap2 libb
> This smells like a Gitlab glitch, probably transient.
Is there a simple way to say "Please try again?" (without adding clutter to
git's log)
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> To be somewhat nicer to the SD card I think of moving the ntpd statistic
> logs to a tmpfs and then periodically moving them to permanent storage
I did something like that ages ago. I don't remember why I stopped. Most
likely it just fell through the cracks.
I keep daily log files. I thin
Was: Re: Catching up
Gary said:
> waf should be putting the version in ntploggps, then it will mean something,
> and can run standalone
There was similar discussion of waf editing man pages to get the date on the
bottom left corner.
I don't understand waf well enough to go there.
I think this
>> The logging code currently includes a flush. A few lines of
>> code could batch that.
> Unless it's made optional it should be kept that way.
Agreed. I was thinking of a parameter in the config file to set the flush
delay.
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>> Maybe it's time to move ntpviz and the logging
>> stuff to a separate package.
> How does that help?
Then they could have their own version string policy rather than getting
tangled up with ntpsec's policy and library.
I think I'd call it a bug if a script only uses the python library to get
> The page that covers differences from Classic - docs/ntpsec.txt. It's under
> Security.
Thanks.
* peer mode has been removed. The keyword peer in ntp.conf is now
just an alias for keyword server.
* Broadcast- and multicast client modes, which are impossible to
secure, have been removed
> Who cares about the dynamic peak? That is handled by the RasPi on board
> capacitors. When the capacitors can not hold up the DC any longer then the
> meter sees the problem.
No, the meter is much too slow for that. (Or at least mine is.)
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> Long-term, I'd like to simplify and just do the same git checks within waf
> itself.
It's got to work without git, and it has to get the same checksum when built
from git or tarball. I think that means you have to stash the git timestamp
in a local file. That file doesn't get checked into
devel@ntpsec.org said:
> That sounds useful, yes. Again, I wouldn't want a configurable delay as
> much as I would like to ensure that it only ever flushes a full block (or a
> whole multiple of that), as defined by the underlying fs (so most likely
> 512byte or 4kiB), to storage unless the proce
devel@ntpsec.org said:
> I just re-read this. I see you said "date". I addressed the version number,
> not the date. I think the change is still good for that reason.
My fat finger. Sorry.
Our man pages already have the date in the center of the bottom line.
What I was looking for was to add
e...@thyrsus.com said:
> I don't know. My from-the-code-out view does not make me confident that I
> know what the consequences of *not* processing mode 1 are.
If somebody else said:
peer
It would stop working.
It's probably reasonably easy to process them. Just treat them like mode 3
unt
>>> Who cares about the dynamic peak? That is handled by the RasPi on
>>> board capacitors. When the capacitors can not hold up the DC any
>>> longer then the meter sees the problem.
>> No, the meter is much too slow for that. (Or at least mine is.)
> I'd love to test that. Maybe the $100 USB
> What's wrong with being tangled up in ntpsec's policy and library. Now we
> just have to fix it one place, not two. How does adding complexity help
> here?
I was looking for a way to decouple simple scripts from the python library
package.
It all started when you wanted to be able to run s
matthew.sel...@twosigma.com said:
> Yes, what if we build the version from the VERSION file (+ last git commit
> short hash + BUILD_EPOCH, only when building from git)?
> This would avoid having to calculate the distance to the tag, etc, that
> autorevision currently does.
> The BUILD_EPOCH woul
> asciidoc shows a manversion in the bottom left, but asciidoctor has dropped
> this attribute.
> asciidoctor seems to be the future[0], so it this worth it?
I think so. I assume we can work out some way to do it and/or asciidoctor
will add support for it if they expect to capture a big chunk
>> When I use ntpq from Classic, I'm never prompted for a password. I'm not
>> sure if it's reading the key from /etc/ntp.keys on my behalf or not.
>> Are you modifying things, or just looking?
>> For example, ntpq -p doesn't require a password.
> I only run ntpq -p and other read-only operation
What is the current status?
Does configure bail if installing the python libs in /usr/local/ isn't going
to work?
Do we have a good writeup for the PYTHONPATH and/or .pth solutions?
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>> Does configure bail if installing the python libs in
>> /usr/local/ isn't going to work?
Poor choice of words on my part. "going to work" is ambiguous. One
possibility is that the install won't work, maybe because a directory doesn't
exist. But it should be able to create directories so m
Gary said.
> Yup. Do we know if this can fail silently?
I tried it. It's not silent.
Waf: Leaving directory `/home/murray/ntpsec/play/hgm/main'
Build failed
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/home/murray/ntpsec/play/.waf-1.9.14-d7f6128a2aa20a656027b134f0b4f4a6/
waflib/Task.py", line 1
Thanks.
> 1) Does configure bail if installing the python libs might not work? No.
> I think #1 always has to be no. Otherwise, you'll break tons of working
> setups, including but not limited to package builds.
Could you please say more.
I'm assuming that PYTHONPATH or xxx.pth would fix the
> Assuming this is a newly-installed system, /usr/local/lib/python2.7/
> dist-packages does not exist. Since it does not exist, it does not show up
> in sys.path.
Thanks. That's the example I was looking for.
There is another example based on that which is when the user doesn't
actually inten
There is already a FIXME tag. A few minutes ago, I counted 56 of them.
There are also 19 hits on TODO.
I like the idea of reviewing them as part of a release. That gets tangled up
with testing and other things that make releases take longer.
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> For starters, the two PPS pulses should be close enough together to trigger
> a back-to-back queued interrupt, so the second will have to wait for the
> first handler to complete.
You might learn something by connecting the same PPS signal to two pins and
comparing the time stamps. The diffe
>> I'd expect another step if the timing difference between
>> pulses is such that it changes from 1 interrupt to 2. The two
>> interrupt case will add the time to return from an interrupt
>> and take the second one. Maybe a one-shot with a
>> knob so you can adjust the delay and plot the diffe
devel@ntpsec.org said:
> Well, maybe if I can think about a use of that measurement I might do it,
> but _creating_ a PPS from the rasPi and then measuring it externally with a
> TIC of sufficient resolution would be much more useful than teasing out this
> or that internal delay that is going to
dropkic...@gmail.com said:
> I have 3 ntp servers on a subnet. I would like to aggregate stat files for
> each server to another server for the purpose of centralized analysis each
> ntp server would have its own directory for stat files. I'm currently using
> a python script that scp files from
devel@ntpsec.org said:
> As far as I understand the sources, setting up an echo allows a PPS client
> to register a callback function with the PPS device to be called when a PPS
> event happens. The default echo function simply outputs "echo: assert" or
> "echo: clear". I guess one could indeed
> But maybe I don't understand what you're after.
I'm interested in learning whatever we can about the timing in the kernel PPS
area.
There is another approach that might be interesting. Use a loopback on some
modem control signals or gpio pins. Then a test program can grab the time,
flap
> PPS line discipline via USB virtual serial works and produces the expected
> ~1ms offsets due to the USB poll interval. It should be possible to remove
> that shift by doing a loopback measurement via RTS/CTS eventually. Jitter
> is roughly on par with the local stratum-1 over network.
The U
> I've just tried that again with both the uBlox-6 and uBlox-8 and while I can
> attach the PPS line discipline to the interface, no PPS ever gets generated
> on that device. If they can actually do that, I'd be interested in how to
> enable that capability.
You can build your own with PPS by ad
Python on NetBSD doesn't search /usr/local/lib/
It looks in /usr/pkg/...
-bash-4.4$ python
Python 2.7.14 (default, Oct 15 2017, 00:57:13)
[GCC 4.8.4] on netbsd7
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> print sys.path
['', '/usr/pkg/lib/python27.zi
rlaa...@wiktel.com said:
>> What's the right fix?
> As an individual, choose one of these:
...
Thanks.
It's just the same old mess that I didn't recognize because of the /usr/pkg/
rather than the familiar /usr/local/ slightly complicated by a version that
got installed someplace on the search
I've been running on Linux with ntpd starting as non-root with reduced
capabilities. Do we want to merge this in?
It's not a big deal, but one more small step in the right direction. The
biggest disadvantage I can see is the increased complexity in the startup
scripts.
It will take a lot of
devel@ntpsec.org said:
> From the possible values of ntpEntStatPktMode it would appear that the
> "modes" this table is talking about are not the normal NTP communication
> modes like mode6.
What are the possibilies?
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symetricactive(1),
symetricpassive(2),
client(3),
server(4),
broadcastserver(5),
broadcastclient(6)
Those are close to the "mode" field in the packet.
client and server are mode 3+4.
symetricactive and symetricpassive are "peer, modes 1+2.
We don't send symetricactive mode any
> IIRC there never was a mode 0. ...
Thanks for the history.
There isn't a counter for that case, but I have seen it in the mrulist
printout. Or thought I did, I can't find an example now so I was probably
thinking of something else.
I do see a lot of version 2 requests.
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Does anybody know what the working set of a server answering a request is?
Or how to measure it?
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Rats/sorry. I broke it last night.
Usually I test things better than this.
Should be fixed soon.
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Should be fixed now.
Is anybody other than me testing the authentication stuff?
Poke me off list if you want to set something up.
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>> Yes, please. I see no reason why ntpd should start up as root these
>> days.
> It needs to be able to read /dev/pps*, SHM(0) and SHM(1)
You don't need root for /dev/whatever if you set the owner to ntp:ntp before
starting ntpd.
Linux has split the root-does-everything permissions to various
> Doesn't ntpd need to be started as root to set that?
> But how does ntpd set its caps before it starts?
man 8 setcap
You set them on your ntpd when you mark it setuid as part of the install
process.
The capabilities on the file get OR-ed in to whatever they inherit from the
starting user. S
devel@ntpsec.org said:
> There are two sets of configuration data: the usual server and logging
> settings, and the flags which control which notifications are active.
I'd put stuff in parallel with ntp/ntpd
Config in /etc/ntpsntp.conf
State to be saved over boot in /var/ntpsntp/
Cleaned over b
devel@ntpsec.org said:
> You know our users do not read man pages! Can you provide a script, or at
> least a detailed procedure?
Sure. If you look back in the message that started this thread there are
snippets of code.
The initial message was asking if there was any interest. (Or implicitl
>> Config in /etc/ntpsntp.conf
> /etc/ntpsntpd.conf server, not client.
Interesting.. Thanks.
ntpd is both client and server. We don't use the "d" on config files.
Is there a client for ntpsnmpd? I'd expect the client side to be part of a
snmp package. Do we need samples for that? How many
Where is the documentation that tells somebody what they have to do on their
system if they want to use our code?
I'm expecting that to be partly a general overview and partly small diffs for
each distro/release to document the details. or at least one set of working
details.
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We have ntpd and ntpq that replace the programs with the same names from ntp
classic.
For testing, we install in /usr/local/ so we don't conflict with a system
version of ntp classic. If you hack your search path, you get our code
rather than the system programs with the same names.
That wor
Poking around, I see that some of my servers are not responding. (I test
various combinations and/or collect data with noselect.)
Has anybody noticed anything similar? Are you running the latest bits? ...
I haven't seen any problems recently so I assume it's due to a recent change.
All my
> What version of openssl was failing to build?
> Is it a version that's still supported upstream by the OpenSSL project?
I don't know what is supported by OpenSSL, but it didn't build on several old
but still supported distros. I'll dig out the details I can easily get if
you want.
The HISTOR
If I run waf build after a clean build, It does this:
...
'build' finished successfully (0.451s)
...
--- building host ---
Waf: Entering directory `/home/murray/ntpsec/play/hgm/host'
Waf: Leaving directory `/home/murray/ntpsec/play/hgm/host'
--- building main ---
Waf: Entering directory `/home/m
What do people recommend for a GUI package to use with python?
I want to plot a graph of something and update it in real time by scrolling
all the old data to make room for the new samples as they arrive.
Google suggests that matpythonlib may be the right starting point, but I
haven't pulled th
Thanks for passing that on.
That code is long gone.
We only have one extra thread for doing DNS lookups. If you configure with
--disable-dns-lookup, it could build without threads.
We don't currently do anything about the stack size. Is that interesting? I
don't know of any usage in limited
because it gets better data over the net.
(Yes, the Ethernet is also USB, but it's faster USB.)
remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset
jitter
==
=
+192.168.1.3 192.168.1.33 2 u
> Poking around, I see that some of my servers are not responding.
Things are happy again.
I think I've figured it out, but I don't have a smoking gun, a clean fix, or
a reproducible test case.
I think the problem was that I have servers setup to depend on each other.
Several have good refc
Is anybody using/testing it?
We don't support receiving broadcast.
It used to support a ttl option. That got broken/dropped somewhere along the
way. Should I restore that? Or maybe document that it is missing? ...
Context is that I'm cleaning up the mode/ttl mess. The mode for refclocks us
> The big deal is whether we have closure on the Python installation mess.
The only loose end that I know about is PYTHONDIR vs PYTHONARCHDIR.
We now understand why what we have been expecting doesn't work.
We are trying to import ntp.ntpc. That's a two step process. First it looks
up ntp, th
devel@ntpsec.org said:
> Your first 'graph is something I didn't know. I think it removes the
> pressure to keep this feature. Go ahead and take it out, Hal.
OK. I'll take it out of the parser in time for the release. Cleaning up the
internals should wait until after the release.
--
Thes
There are two projects I've had my eye on for a while.
The first is to remove the input buffer queue. That's leftover from before
kernels supported time stamps on received network packets. (ntpd used to
grab the packets from an IO signal handler)
The other is to remove the table lookup in th
devel@ntpsec.org said:
> So, I'm declaring an intention for the 1.0.1 release the weekend after next,
> about March 3rd.
Could you please say a bit more about how you picked that date?
I would expect either:
as soon as we finish feature X, or
as soon as we stop fixing minor things (like doc
Thanks for the input.
> I'm a big fan of "always stable master" and time based releases.
I'd be happy with that. What sort of interval did you have in mind for "time
based"?
Our master is generally pretty stable, but we don't have a solid test setup.
We can tell if it builds, but that doesn'
> Two of my servers are in the NTP pool...
You can get some interesting data if you kick up the memory for the MRU list.
A US/NA server needs 325K to hold everything for a bit over a day.
Something like:
# 88200 = 86400 + 30*60
mru initmem 10 maxmem 50 maxage 88200 minage 3600
addre
hmur...@megapathdsl.net said:
> You can get some interesting data if you kick up the memory for the MRU
> list.
> A US/NA server needs 325K to hold everything for a bit over a day.
Argh. I forgot a key piece of info.
That's on a box signed up for 100 megabits of IPv4 and IPv6.
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> I've been looking at the code around mode 6 generation and discovered that
> in some areas it's still globals all the way down. Translating these
> globals will make future refactoring/translating easier.
I'm missing the big idea.
The current case is that we have a lot of global variables.
rlaa...@wiktel.com said:
> If you're going to move to time-based, you might consider quarterly
> releases?
I'd be happy with quarterly releases.
The next question is how seriously do we take the release date? I think
there are two approaches. The first is to try hard to release as scheduled.
If different, the test-space of seccomp gets (much?) bigger.
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> Well, on Gentoo, its mix and match as you wish.
> You've got clang and gcc for C compilers
> Mix with glibc, musl, uclibc and uclibc-ng for your C library.
> On amd64 you'll find gcc and glibc almost all the time.
> On arm you'll find the same, but musl gaining market share.
Thanks.
Should we
Maybe build for ARM on an Intel box.
Is there a diff for compiled files? (with a flag to skip time stamps or
whatever would change if I just rebuilt with the same environment)
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devel@ntpsec.org said:
> The only real blocker that I can see at this time is the need for broad
> testing. [reiteration of me requesting testers / reviewers goes here.]
Is there a HOWTO that tells me how to set things up?
Actually, I need something before that. Why is it interesting? What wi
Do we have any documentation describing a use case?
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>> Do we have any documentation describing a use case?
> Not exactly, but look at the snippets under etc/ntp.d/.
All those examples don't use the auto-grab feature. Most of the file names
don't end with .conf, and the one that does is a sample ntp.conf that could
be better placed up a level.
I
> You need to be running an SNMP daemon and an NTP daemon.
I've got plenty of ntp servers to experiment with.
>> Is there a HOWTO that tells me how to set things up?
> I'll get to work on that.
There may be two targets for that document. One is SNMP wizards who don't
know much about ntpd. Th
e...@thyrsus.com said:
> Gary and Mark asked me for something like such an Apache-like feature
> because it makes life easier for configuration-assistant software and distro
> packages.
Is that true in our case? It seems like it might be, but our config file is
generally simple enough that a s
Would it help if we made a chart of the status of various features cross
OSes/distros? How many different OSes/distros do we support? Can it fit on
a page? ...
How many different levels of testing are there? I'm thinking of something
like 0-3, where 0 is unknown and 3 is in regular use. (a
If we are serious about security, it seems like a good tool to add to the
collection.
Is there a HOWTO set it up? I didn't find one for NTP. Are all jaildirs
sufficiently similar that a global HOWTO is all one needs to set one up for
NTP? I found one for FreeBSD, but not much for Linux. I
Thanks. That's the sort of thing I was looking for.
Please let us know how it works out, especially if there are any surprises.
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When I push something, I normally get 2 messages telling me it worked.
Occasionally, I get 1 telling me it didn't. The last time, it worked when I
poked Try-Again.
This time, I got:
Subject: ntpsec | Pipeline #18075609 has succeeded for master | eef92d62
Subject: ntpsec | Pipeline #18075609
Again, it's the second of a pair of messages. The first one said it
succeeded.
Subject: ntpsec | Pipeline #18114131 has failed for master | 8c34d988
...
Pipeline #18114131 ( https://gitlab.com/NTPsec/ntpsec/pipelines/18114131 )
triggered by Hal Murray ( https://gitlab.com/hal.murray )
had 1 f
> Yeah, it pushes the web pages.
Should I just ignore it?
Or tell somebody? If so, who? What would they do?
Any idea why I'm getting pairs of messages?
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> Are we comfortable with the 1.0.1 release on March 3rd?
I'm not. My attempts at fixing #461 aren't working.
I think it should be simple. I think I understand what the problem is, but I
don't understand why my attempts at fixing it aren't working.
The root of the problem is this (from the ma
> Hal, is there anything I can do to help? I admit that it looks like the
> kind of thing we'd be better off letting you chew on than taking the time to
> fylly educate someone else, but if you don't think that's true I'm
> listening.
I just tried again.
It's not hard to explain. I'll try to
devel@ntpsec.org said:
> I see no real blockers. We've got a bunch of little nits and documentation
> issues. I might try to push a fix for #446.
There is no problem unless you setup your keys file to use an algorithm with
a big digest.
The short term clean fix is to reject algorithms with t
> I see no real blockers. We've got a bunch of little nits and documentation
> issues. I might try to push a fix for #446.
>From n...@ietf.org
> Please note that latest versions of ntp truncate long digests in MACs to 160
> bits, so the authentication should work with any hash function supporte
[truncate long digests]
> Bletch. No, we don't.
Except that others are already doing it, so I guess we should do it too.
I'll add a warning to the code that reads in keys.
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Mark Atwood said:
> ntpsnmpd should be it's own Debian package, please. It's useful to both
> NTPsec and to NTP Classic installations.
Has anybody tried it with NTP Classic? Do we have a classic server running
that we can test against? (other things as well as ntpsnmpd)
I could imagine that
fallenpega...@gmail.com said:
> If Hal isn't happy, I'm not happy. I'll hold the release until this gets
> unsnarled. ..m
It will take a day or two to fix the truncate case. Maybe tonight.
It will take a week or so to add CMAC support. Waiting for that seems like a
good idea. It will give
I think we should sort it out for the release.
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Eric said:
>> I could imagine that we have tweaked mode6 enough to be interesting.
> There's really only one possible point of breakage - driver IDs for
> reclocks. I think we're safe there.
It wouldn't surprise me if we had added something interesting. I'm pretty
sure I have added things. T
> Do you have the truncate fix in?
Apologies for not sending a specific announcement.
Yes.
commit b01f1d658b11c4e8c24b307a7a79e8307364fbc2
Author: Hal Murray
Date: Fri Mar 2 00:38:49 2018 -0800
Truncate digests longer than 20 bytes.
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The top of my list of things to fix is the pyt
Is something interesting going on here, or is this just leftover cruft?
Why would ntp_adjtime turn into SIGSYS? Would that be mentioned in a man
page? Do we care about running on those systems?
/*
* Use sigsetjmp() to save state and then call ntp_adjtime(); if
* it f
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