On 12 Dec 2017, at 2:44 PM, Philip Kovacs wrote:
>
> >Artistic (volatile) temperament” is just a euphemistic way of saying
> >“engages in unchecked abusive behaviour toward their peers”, and no member
> >of the community should be expected to bend over backwards to >tolerate this
> >or to turn
>Artistic (volatile) temperament” is just a euphemistic way of saying “engages
>in unchecked abusive behaviour toward their peers”, and no member of the
>community should be expected to bend over backwards to >tolerate this or to
>turn a blind eye to it.
You completely, utterly and totally misr
On 09 Dec 2017, at 8:21 PM, Philip Kovacs wrote:
> I am opposed to allowing PP unfettered access to projects in which the
> maintainer(s)
> are responsive. It's common for developers to have artistic (volatile)
> temperaments ,
> like a painter who paints on canvas owned by someone else.
We
On Sun, 10 Dec 2017, Graham Leggett wrote:
> In this case, we have the needs of the Fedora project (this
> change) stacked up against your needs (your reluctance to
> perform a task).
This line of argument is a 'straw man' as are several other
rationalizations advanced for NOT giving effective
Dne 8.12.2017 v 18:33 Adam Williamson napsal(a):
> How long will it be before you can get the modernization/cleanup
> finished? You're going to be sitting there waiting for 50 people to
> respond to pull requests,
A week? And only then do the change directly? Sometimes the maintainers have a
reas
On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 4:28 AM, Igor Gnatenko <
ignatenkobr...@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
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>
> After reading all responses in thread which is mentioned in subject I
> think we
> need to develop some policies / procedures how to deal with old cruft
On 07 Dec 2017, at 5:31 PM, Steve Dickson wrote:
> Where committed to the master branch and not to any other
> branch make the maintenance of those branches a pain
> because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches.
> I have to make multiple commits to multiple branches
> which sucks... Some
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After reading all responses in thread which is mentioned in subject I think we
need to develop some policies / procedures how to deal with old cruft, for
example:
- - Requires: systemd-units
- - Requires: /bin/mktemp
Former has changed to systemd i
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On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 08:40 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
> Hey,
>
> On 12/07/2017 02:31 PM, Florian Weimer wrote:
> > On 12/07/2017 04:31 PM, Steve Dickson wrote:
> > > Where committed to the master branch and not to any other
> > > branch make the m
On Sat, Dec 09, 2017 at 09:10:13PM +, Philip Kovacs wrote:
> It's just simple human courtesy.
A good analogy is saying "Hello" when you meet somebody on the street.
You live in a village and it's unthinkable not do it. Then you move to
a small town and everybody still does, except when it's t
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On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
> Hello,
>
> What do I have to do to stop random people
> from making random changes to packages I maintain?
>
> How do people get this type of permission?
>
> Case in point;
>
> commit 35
>I deeply believe that such maintainers and such packages as you
>describe must become a thing of a past. For the moment, until your new world
>order arrives, packages are maintained by people of all types volunteering
>their time and effort. These are people who will probably never even hear a
On Sat, Dec 09, 2017 at 06:26:28PM +, Philip Kovacs wrote:
> s/do want/do NOT want
>
> On Saturday, December 9, 2017 1:21 PM, Philip Kovacs
> wrote:
>
>
> I am opposed to allowing PP unfettered access to projects in which
> the maintainer(s) are responsive. It's common for develop
s/do want/do NOT want
On Saturday, December 9, 2017 1:21 PM, Philip Kovacs
wrote:
I am opposed to allowing PP unfettered access to projects in which the
maintainer(s) are responsive. It's common for developers to have artistic
(volatile) temperaments , like a painter who paints on ca
I am opposed to allowing PP unfettered access to projects in which the
maintainer(s) are responsive. It's common for developers to have artistic
(volatile) temperaments , like a painter who paints on canvas owned by someone
else. Does the owner have the right to change the color jars? Perhaps
On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 08:30:20PM +0100, Matthias Runge wrote:
> Now this has gone back and forth. The system worked more or less ok.
> Maybe it is more about the changes (and communication) of a
> specific provenpackager?
After sleeping a night over this, I should have put it in different
words:
On 12/08/2017 06:48 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 10:45 -0600, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
On 12/08/2017 10:40 AM, Steve Dickson wrote:
You are telling me there hundreds of people that have complete
control over all the packages in fedora with no boundaries???
They can do anyt
On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 11:46:03AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>
>
> On 12/08/2017 11:21 AM, Charalampos Stratakis wrote:
> > The kernel is actually blacklisted from proven packager access, you can't
> > make changes there.
> This is good to know... how do you get on that list? ;-)
> >
> > Apa
On 12/08/2017 12:33 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 12:01 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>> Then on the other hand I get these pull-requests that
>> work so well!
>>
>> So I just don't understand why for non-massive changes
>> why is it not required to go through the pull-req
On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 10:45 -0600, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> On 12/08/2017 10:40 AM, Steve Dickson wrote:
> > You are telling me there hundreds of people that have complete
> > control over all the packages in fedora with no boundaries???
> > They can do anything they what??? Wow...
>
> Not rea
On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 12:11 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>
> On 12/08/2017 11:54 AM, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 11:40 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
> > >
> > > On 12/08/2017 11:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > > > Well, I'd say this works great. There's maybe a hundred
On 12/08/2017 08:33 AM, Pierre-Yves Chibon wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 11:21:10AM -0500, Charalampos Stratakis wrote:
>> - Original Message -
Unless you want to say that the change is somehow wrong, please
don't say that "poeple [...] are clueless", because that's disingenuou
On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Pierre-Yves Chibon wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 11:21:10AM -0500, Charalampos Stratakis wrote:
>> - Original Message -
>> > > Unless you want to say that the change is somehow wrong, please
>> > > don't say that "poeple [...] are clueless", because that
On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 12:01 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
> Then on the other hand I get these pull-requests that
> work so well!
>
> So I just don't understand why for non-massive changes
> why is it not required to go through the pull-request
> process?
There is a pedestrian reason, which is
On Friday, 08 December 2017 at 18:07, Steve Dickson wrote:
[...]
> > A proven packager is not someone random, they were given access
> > based on various criteria and that IMHO includes the fact that
> > their perception or "feels" about what has to be done on other
> > people's packages, is aligne
* Steve Dickson [08/12/2017 12:11] :
>
> But if it is non-massive, non-critical shouldn't the maintainer be notified?
If it's trivial, I'm ok with being informed via fedmsg telling me a commit has
been made. In this case, this was a trivial fix that the maintainer should have
done years ago so I c
On 12/08/2017 12:10 PM, Mathieu Bridon wrote:
> On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 12:01 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>> On 12/08/2017 11:46 AM, Mathieu Bridon wrote:
>>> You're blowing this way out of proportion, as if this was a
>>> catastrophe. History shows that it isn't.
>>
>> Maybe I am... Would not be t
On 12/08/2017 11:54 AM, Simo Sorce wrote:
> On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 11:40 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>>
>> On 12/08/2017 11:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
>>> Well, I'd say this works great. There's maybe a hundred or two hundred
>>> proven packagers and somehow none of them decide to m
On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 12:01 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
> On 12/08/2017 11:46 AM, Mathieu Bridon wrote:
> > You're blowing this way out of proportion, as if this was a
> > catastrophe. History shows that it isn't.
>
> Maybe I am... Would not be the first time! ;-)
>
> In last couple of months the
On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 11:52:21AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>
>
> On 12/08/2017 11:28 AM, Kalev Lember wrote:
> > On 12/08/2017 05:17 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> >> On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 10:59:20AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 12/08/2017 10:12 AM, Zbigniew Ję
Jędrzejewski-Szmek" , "Yaakov Selkowitz"
>>
>> Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 5:46:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: What to I have to do
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/08/2017 11:21 AM, Charalampos Stratakis wrote:
>>> The kernel is actually blacklisted f
On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 10:45:47AM -0600, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> On 12/08/2017 10:40 AM, Steve Dickson wrote:
> >You are telling me there hundreds of people that have complete
> >control over all the packages in fedora with no boundaries???
> >They can do anything they what??? Wow...
>
> Not
On 12/08/2017 11:46 AM, Mathieu Bridon wrote:
> On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 11:40 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>>
>> On 12/08/2017 11:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
>>> Well, I'd say this works great. There's maybe a hundred or two
>>> hundred proven packagers and somehow none of them decide
- Original Message -
> From: "Steve Dickson"
> To: "Development discussions related to Fedora"
> , "Charalampos Stratakis"
>
> Cc: "Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek" , "Yaakov Selkowitz"
>
> Sent: Friday, December 8
On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 11:40 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>
> On 12/08/2017 11:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > Well, I'd say this works great. There's maybe a hundred or two hundred
> > proven packagers and somehow none of them decide to mess up the kernel
> > any day. In fact, the com
On 8 December 2017 at 11:40, Steve Dickson wrote:
>
>
> On 12/08/2017 11:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
>> Well, I'd say this works great. There's maybe a hundred or two hundred
>> proven packagers and somehow none of them decide to mess up the kernel
>> any day. In fact, the commits wh
On 12/08/2017 11:28 AM, Kalev Lember wrote:
> On 12/08/2017 05:17 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
>> On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 10:59:20AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/08/2017 10:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
How would the overhead be lower? Instead of a sing
On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 11:40 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>
> On 12/08/2017 11:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > Well, I'd say this works great. There's maybe a hundred or two
> > hundred proven packagers and somehow none of them decide to mess up
> > the kernel any day. In fact, the com
On 12/08/2017 11:21 AM, Charalampos Stratakis wrote:
> The kernel is actually blacklisted from proven packager access, you can't
> make changes there.
This is good to know... how do you get on that list? ;-)
>
> Apart from that though, I don't really see any reasons for creating this
> thread
On 12/08/2017 10:40 AM, Steve Dickson wrote:
You are telling me there hundreds of people that have complete
control over all the packages in fedora with no boundaries???
They can do anything they what??? Wow...
Not really. There are a handful of packages that are protected. I tried to push a
g
On 12/08/2017 11:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> Well, I'd say this works great. There's maybe a hundred or two hundred
> proven packagers and somehow none of them decide to mess up the kernel
> any day. In fact, the commits which caused this thread are _correct_:
> so far I haven't h
On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 11:21:10AM -0500, Charalampos Stratakis wrote:
> - Original Message -
> > > Unless you want to say that the change is somehow wrong, please
> > > don't say that "poeple [...] are clueless", because that's disingenuous.
> > Fair enough... "clueless" was probably not t
On 12/08/2017 05:17 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 10:59:20AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 12/08/2017 10:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
>>> How would the overhead be lower? Instead of a single clean commit that
>>> does what needs to be done y
- Original Message -
> From: "Steve Dickson"
> To: "Development discussions related to Fedora"
> , "Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek"
>
> Cc: "Yaakov Selkowitz"
> Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 4:31:58 PM
> Subject: Re: What to
On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 09:14 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>
> On 12/07/2017 06:13 PM, Sérgio Basto wrote:
> > On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > What do I have to do to stop random people
> > > from making random changes to packages I maintain?
> > >
On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 10:59:20AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>
>
> On 12/08/2017 10:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 09:14:35AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 12/07/2017 06:13 PM, Sérgio Basto wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500, St
On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 10:31:58AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>
>
> On 12/08/2017 10:07 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 08:31:44AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 12/07/2017 02:18 PM, Yaakov Selkowitz wrote:
> >>> On 2017-12-07 09:31, Steve Dickso
On 12/08/2017 10:12 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 09:14:35AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 12/07/2017 06:13 PM, Sérgio Basto wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
Hello,
What do I have to do to stop random pe
On 12/08/2017 10:07 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 08:31:44AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 12/07/2017 02:18 PM, Yaakov Selkowitz wrote:
>>> On 2017-12-07 09:31, Steve Dickson wrote:
What do I have to do to stop random people
from making rand
On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 09:14:35AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>
>
> On 12/07/2017 06:13 PM, Sérgio Basto wrote:
> > On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> What do I have to do to stop random people
> >> from making random changes to packages I maintain?
>
On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 08:31:44AM -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>
>
> On 12/07/2017 02:18 PM, Yaakov Selkowitz wrote:
> > On 2017-12-07 09:31, Steve Dickson wrote:
> >> What do I have to do to stop random people
> >> from making random changes to packages I maintain?
> >>
> >> How do people get
On 12/07/2017 03:37 PM, R P Herrold wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Dec 2017, Yaakov Selkowitz wrote:
>
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Provenpackager_policy
>
>> These were properly announced:
>>
>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/RJYQNLIWBAVQPGLIGUT77WG
On 12/08/2017 09:00 AM, Florian Weimer wrote:
> On 12/08/2017 02:40 PM, Steve Dickson wrote:
>> Hey,
>>
>> On 12/07/2017 02:31 PM, Florian Weimer wrote:
>>> On 12/07/2017 04:31 PM, Steve Dickson wrote:
Where committed to the master branch and not to any other
branch make the maintenance
On 12/07/2017 06:13 PM, Sérgio Basto wrote:
> On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> What do I have to do to stop random people
>> from making random changes to packages I maintain?
>>
>> How do people get this type of permission?
>>
>> Case in point;
>>
>> comm
On 12/08/2017 02:40 PM, Steve Dickson wrote:
Hey,
On 12/07/2017 02:31 PM, Florian Weimer wrote:
On 12/07/2017 04:31 PM, Steve Dickson wrote:
Where committed to the master branch and not to any other
branch make the maintenance of those branches a pain
because I can no longer cherry-pick betwee
On 12/07/2017 05:38 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Steve Dickson wrote:
>> Where committed to the master branch and not to any other
>> branch make the maintenance of those branches a pain
>> because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches.
>> I have to make multiple commits to multiple branches
Hey,
On 12/07/2017 03:49 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
>
>> Where committed to the master branch and not to any other
>> branch make the maintenance of those branches a pain
>> because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches.
>> I have
Hey,
On 12/07/2017 02:31 PM, Florian Weimer wrote:
> On 12/07/2017 04:31 PM, Steve Dickson wrote:
>> Where committed to the master branch and not to any other
>> branch make the maintenance of those branches a pain
>> because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches.
>
> Maybe you can elabora
On 12/07/2017 02:18 PM, Yaakov Selkowitz wrote:
> On 2017-12-07 09:31, Steve Dickson wrote:
>> What do I have to do to stop random people
>> from making random changes to packages I maintain?
>>
>> How do people get this type of permission?
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Provenpackager_pol
On Fri, Dec 08, 2017 at 02:07:51AM +, Michael Cullen wrote:
> > because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches.
>
> Not true at all - you’d be surprised how well git deals with cherry
> picks across diverse branches. And even when it doesn’t there’s very
> rarely anything in a spec file
> because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches.
Not true at all - you’d be surprised how well git deals with cherry
picks across diverse branches. And even when it doesn’t there’s very
rarely anything in a spec file that would be a difficult conflict to
resolve. At work I often cherry pick
On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
> Hello,
>
> What do I have to do to stop random people
> from making random changes to packages I maintain?
>
> How do people get this type of permission?
>
> Case in point;
>
> commit 358a8fff974f0e124527a3281c90fa04cb7c7a7f (HEAD -> m
Steve Dickson wrote:
> Where committed to the master branch and not to any other
> branch make the maintenance of those branches a pain
> because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches.
> I have to make multiple commits to multiple branches
> which sucks... Something random people do not unde
On Thu, 2017-12-07 at 10:31 -0500, Steve Dickson wrote:
> Where committed to the master branch and not to any other
> branch make the maintenance of those branches a pain
> because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches.
> I have to make multiple commits to multiple branches
> which sucks..
On Thu, 7 Dec 2017, Yaakov Selkowitz wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Provenpackager_policy
> These were properly announced:
>
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/RJYQNLIWBAVQPGLIGUT77WGY5D4TK334/
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/
On 12/07/2017 04:31 PM, Steve Dickson wrote:
Where committed to the master branch and not to any other
branch make the maintenance of those branches a pain
because I can no longer cherry-pick between branches.
Maybe you can elaborate on how this causes problems for your development
process, an
On 2017-12-07 09:31, Steve Dickson wrote:
> What do I have to do to stop random people
> from making random changes to packages I maintain?
>
> How do people get this type of permission?
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Provenpackager_policy
> Case in point;
[snip]
These were properly announced
Hello,
What do I have to do to stop random people
from making random changes to packages I maintain?
How do people get this type of permission?
Case in point;
commit 358a8fff974f0e124527a3281c90fa04cb7c7a7f (HEAD -> master, origin/master,
origin/HEAD)
Author: Igor Gnatenko
Date: Tue Nov 7
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