Re: Suggests/Recommends proposal [Was: Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)]

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:47, Kevin Kofler wrote: > tim.laurid...@gmail.com wrote: >> The hard part is to define what the package tools should do in the >> different cases >> A depsolver need to work with real requirements, so it need to be defined >> in what cases that a soft requirement will be

Re: Suggests/Recommends proposal [Was: Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)]

tim.laurid...@gmail.com wrote: > The hard part is to define what the package tools should do in the > different cases > A depsolver need to work with real requirements, so it need to be defined > in what cases that a soft requirement will become a real requirements to > do the right thing See my p

Re: Suggests/Recommends proposal [Was: Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)]

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Matej Cepl wrote: > Dne 26.4.2011 18:23, Florian Festi napsal(a): > > I think if anybody can come up with a exact description how they should > > look like and how they should work and can create some evidence that > > this is want we need and want implementing th

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

On 04/26/2011 10:19 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote: > James Antill wrote: There may well be plenty of good uses for such a soft dependency .. For example it sounds useful for R which has a hard depend on texlive at the moment - but its only used for docs - so it would be way way better to be a soft

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

James Antill wrote: > rpm5 isn't used anywhere, so is irrelevant to any discussion on > anything. It's used in PLD and Ark Linux, at least. (Ark Linux is Bernhard Rosenkränzer's project, the ex-RH-KDE-maintainer who has just as much a grudge against RH as RPM5's Jeff Johnson, so it's no wonder

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

On Tue, 2011-04-26 at 13:55 -0400, James Antill wrote: > rpm5 isn't used anywhere, so is irrelevant to any discussion on > anything. Since Mandriva and Mageia split, Per Oyvind got to be Mandriva's RPM maintainer, and they have (not surprisingly) adopted RPM5. Not to say I think it's a good idea

Suggests/Recommends proposal [Was: Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)]

Dne 26.4.2011 18:23, Florian Festi napsal(a): > I think if anybody can come up with a exact description how they should > look like and how they should work and can create some evidence that > this is want we need and want implementing them is not the problem[*]. > Until now no one has come up with

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

On 04/26/2011 11:25 PM, James Antill wrote: > SuSE with rpm+zypper does have recommends/suggests, and is "somewhat" > close to rpm+yum (kind of). But I don't know how much it is used ... and > I don't know what it's behaviour is. I also don't know what problems > they solve with it, and how well i

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

On Tue, 2011-04-26 at 19:23 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Florian Festi wrote: > > I think if anybody can come up with a exact description how they should > > look like and how they should work and can create some evidence that > > this is want we need and want implementing them is not the problem[*

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

On Tue, 2011-04-26 at 09:57 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Tue, 2011-04-26 at 18:23 +0200, Florian Festi wrote: > > > > I have to defend Seth here ... in the last flamewar on this theme he > > > admitted that introducing Suggests/Recommends would be question of half > > > an hour (maybe he did

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

On Tue, 2011-04-26 at 18:23 +0200, Florian Festi wrote: > > I have to defend Seth here ... in the last flamewar on this theme he > > admitted that introducing Suggests/Recommends would be question of half > > an hour (maybe he didn't mean it literally) and he would be willing to > > do it in the m

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

Florian Festi wrote: > I think if anybody can come up with a exact description how they should > look like and how they should work and can create some evidence that > this is want we need and want implementing them is not the problem[*]. > Until now no one has come up with a proposal and enough co

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

On 04/26/2011 05:21 PM, Matej Cepl wrote: > Dne 26.4.2011 15:31, Kevin Kofler napsal(a): >> AIUI, Suggests/Recommends was almost accepted in rpm.org (BTW, rpm5.org has >> had it for ages), but the yum developers blocked it. :-/ Well, having Suggests/Recommends in RPM only does buy you anything as

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

Dne 26.4.2011 15:31, Kevin Kofler napsal(a): > AIUI, Suggests/Recommends was almost accepted in rpm.org (BTW, rpm5.org has > had it for ages), but the yum developers blocked it. :-/ I have to defend Seth here ... in the last flamewar on this theme he admitted that introducing Suggests/Recommends

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

On Tue, 2011-04-26 at 15:31 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Daniel Mach wrote: > > From my POV, RPM Requires should contain only deps which are *required* > > for a particular package. Suggests/Recommends is really missing > > AIUI, Suggests/Recommends was almost accepted in rpm.org (BTW, rpm5.org h

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

Daniel Mach wrote: > From my POV, RPM Requires should contain only deps which are *required* > for a particular package. Suggests/Recommends is really missing AIUI, Suggests/Recommends was almost accepted in rpm.org (BTW, rpm5.org has had it for ages), but the yum developers blocked it. :-/ IMH

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

Dne 26.4.2011 09:36, Richard W.M. Jones napsal(a): > A simple 'Recommends:', known about by RPM but > otherwise ignored by RPM, would allow tools that knew they were > talking to a real person to make a sensible list of recommendations > based on the packages the user already had installed or was a

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

Dne 26.4.2011 09:11, Ilyes Gouta napsal(a): >> Ceterum autem censeo, Carthaginem esse delendam. > > > So this is Latin, what does it mean? > > Btw, I'm from Tunisia (Tunis), the country of Carthage (historically) ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthago_delenda_est ... it is used for somebody who

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

Dne 26.4.2011 07:57, Matej Cepl napsal(a): > Dne 25.4.2011 21:26, Ilyes Gouta napsal(a): >> Christoph Wickert provided an analysis in >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=699263 > > Which again lead to my broken gramophone song … we suck for not having > Suggests/Recommends. Ceterum autem

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 08:11:20 +0100, IG wrote: > Hi Matěj, > > > Ceterum autem censeo, Carthaginem esse delendam. > > > So this is Latin, what does it mean? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthago_delenda_est Note that the translated meaning is less interesting than how this phrase has been used

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 07:57:37AM +0200, Matej Cepl wrote: > Dne 25.4.2011 21:26, Ilyes Gouta napsal(a): > > Christoph Wickert provided an analysis in > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=699263 > > Which again lead to my broken gramophone song … we suck for not having > Suggests/Reco

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

Hi Matěj, > Ceterum autem censeo, Carthaginem esse delendam. So this is Latin, what does it mean? Btw, I'm from Tunisia (Tunis), the country of Carthage (historically) ;) -Ilyes On 26 avr. 2011, at 06:57, Matej Cepl wrote: > Dne 25.4.2011 21:26, Ilyes Gouta napsal(a): >> Christoph Wickert p

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

Dne 25.4.2011 21:26, Ilyes Gouta napsal(a): > Christoph Wickert provided an analysis in > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=699263 Which again lead to my broken gramophone song … we suck for not having Suggests/Recommends. Ceterum autem censeo, Carthaginem esse delendam. Matěj -- dev

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

Hi Matej, Christoph Wickert provided an analysis in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=699263 -Ilyes On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 8:19 PM, Matej Cepl wrote: > > Dne 25.4.2011 10:35, Rahul Sundaram napsal(a): > > You can [...] remove PackageKit-yum-plugin. > > Unfortunately not ... it takes

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

On 04/25/2011 04:35 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 04/25/2011 01:46 PM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: >> PackageKit frequently *breaks* the yum command line, because it has >> some unkillable (self-resurrecting) process that acquires a lock and >> prevents yum from running. It's a bug that we can't re

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

Dne 25.4.2011 10:35, Rahul Sundaram napsal(a): > You can [...] remove PackageKit-yum-plugin. Unfortunately not ... it takes away (among other things bluez, control-center, gammu, gdm, gnome-bluetooth, orca, and gnome-shell). Anybody any ideas how to get rid of it? Best, Matěj -- devel mailin

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

On 04/25/2011 01:46 PM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > PackageKit frequently *breaks* the yum command line, because it has > some unkillable (self-resurrecting) process that acquires a lock and > prevents yum from running. It's a bug that we can't remove it. You can edit the values in /etc/PackageKi

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 12:25:16AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 04/24/2011 11:54 PM, Ilyes Gouta wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I filed a bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=699263 > > > > -Ilyes > > PackageKit isn't just a yum frontend and is likely to be integrated more > and more wit

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

Hi Rahul, > It isn't a feature that is driven by Fedora and hence it won't be in the > feature list. It is just what happens when more upstream software take > advantage of it over time.. Yes, NOW it's clear! Thanks Rahul! -Ilyes On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 04

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

On 04/25/2011 12:36 AM, Ilyes Gouta wrote: > Rahul, > > > If you aren't actively using the GNOME or KDE frontend, just remove > those and leave the > > framework as it is. > > That was tough :) > > AFAIK (and I might be wrong) deep PacakgeKit integration wasn't > clearly mentioned in Fedora 15's fe

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

Rahul, > If you aren't actively using the GNOME or KDE frontend, just remove those and leave the > framework as it is. That was tough :) AFAIK (and I might be wrong) deep PacakgeKit integration wasn't clearly mentioned in Fedora 15's feature set list. I was just asking if it was possible to rec

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

On 04/24/2011 11:54 PM, Ilyes Gouta wrote: > Hi, > > I filed a bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=699263 > > -Ilyes PackageKit isn't just a yum frontend and is likely to be integrated more and more with key components as we go forward. If you aren't actively using the GNOME or KDE

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

On 24 April 2011 19:24, Ilyes Gouta wrote: > I filed a bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=699263 I've commented on this, and closed it NOTABUG. Sorry. Richard -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

Hi, I filed a bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=699263 -Ilyes On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 7:12 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: > > > Am 24.04.2011 20:04, schrieb Ilyes Gouta: > > Hi, > > > > Removing PackageKit In Fedora 14 was easy and pa

Re: PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

Am 24.04.2011 20:04, schrieb Ilyes Gouta: > Hi, > > Removing PackageKit In Fedora 14 was easy and painless since it causes up to > 5 packages, all *really* related to > PackageKit in the form of a yum-plugin and few other things. > > On Fedora 15, trying to "yum remove PackageKit" causes the s

PackageKit in Fedora 15 (beta)

Hi, Removing PackageKit In Fedora 14 was easy and painless since it causes up to 5 packages, all *really* related to PackageKit in the form of a yum-plugin and few other things. On Fedora 15, trying to "yum remove PackageKit" causes the system to attempt removing up to 74 MB worth of software, in