On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 07:42:59PM -0700, Brendan Conoboy wrote:
> On 03/28/2012 07:27 PM, Andy Grover wrote:
> >Wait, I thought there was some kind of "flattened device tree" or
> >something that the ARM folks thought would let them avoid ACPI. Did that
> >not pan out? Maybe MS put the kibosh on i
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 07:27:13PM -0700, Andy Grover wrote:
> On 03/28/2012 06:13 PM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> > Oh no. Nobody's seriously considering UEFI ARM platforms without ACPI,
> > are they?
>
> Wait, I thought there was some kind of "flattened device tree" or
> something that the ARM fol
On 03/28/2012 07:27 PM, Andy Grover wrote:
Wait, I thought there was some kind of "flattened device tree" or
something that the ARM folks thought would let them avoid ACPI. Did that
not pan out? Maybe MS put the kibosh on it?
In the long run you're likely to see FDT for mobile devices and UEFI
On 03/28/2012 06:13 PM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 07:23:48PM -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
>
>> In the future, ARM systems will transition increasingly to UEFI. Many
>> ARM server systems will likely eventually boot with ACPI as well. They
>> will smell like low-energy alternati
On 28 March 2012 19:13, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 07:23:48PM -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
>
>> In the future, ARM systems will transition increasingly to UEFI. Many
>> ARM server systems will likely eventually boot with ACPI as well. They
>> will smell like low-energy alternati
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 07:23:48PM -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
> In the future, ARM systems will transition increasingly to UEFI. Many
> ARM server systems will likely eventually boot with ACPI as well. They
> will smell like low-energy alternatives to PC servers over time, and in
> another decade o
On Wed, 2012-03-28 at 18:28 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Mar 28, 2012, at 5:23 PM, Jon Masters wrote:
>
> > They
> > will smell like low-energy alternatives to PC servers over time, and in
> > another decade or two something more exciting than UEFI will replace
> > UEFI and folks will mail abou
On Mar 28, 2012, at 5:23 PM, Jon Masters wrote:
> They
> will smell like low-energy alternatives to PC servers over time, and in
> another decade or two something more exciting than UEFI will replace
> UEFI and folks will mail about how things were better with UEFI!
Well, it's not often I moment
On 03/23/2012 08:18 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> DJ Delorie wrote:
>>> always with the caveat that you can't just use "make -j 288" on them.
>>
>> Why not? Multi-CPU machines is very old technology.
>
> Ask the people who designed those machines.
>
> (My guess: memory and bus bandwidth. There's a l
On 03/26/2012 08:00 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> Which leads me to a rant about ARM. G RANT!! I didn't think I'd
> ever love the BIOS, but compared to the alternatives (UEFI and a
> million different ARM bootloaders) it's simple and effective.
There is some truth to that. Nobody is going
On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 03:32:15PM -0400, DJ Delorie wrote:
>
> > Given that the "pc" sense of BIOS includes having arguments returned in
> > x86 registers, I really don't think that's true.
>
> ARM has registers too...
>
> My point is, the ARM chips *do* support an on-board flash bootloader,
>
> Given that the "pc" sense of BIOS includes having arguments returned in
> x86 registers, I really don't think that's true.
ARM has registers too...
My point is, the ARM chips *do* support an on-board flash bootloader,
and there's no reason why that bootloader couldn't export a standard
ABI th
On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 01:37:39PM -0400, DJ Delorie wrote:
>
> > Which leads me to a rant about ARM. G RANT!! I didn't think
> > I'd ever love the BIOS, but compared to the alternatives (UEFI and a
> > million different ARM bootloaders) it's simple and effective.
>
> This is getting way of
> Which leads me to a rant about ARM. G RANT!! I didn't think
> I'd ever love the BIOS, but compared to the alternatives (UEFI and a
> million different ARM bootloaders) it's simple and effective.
This is getting way off-topic, but... most linux-capable ARM chips
support a BIOS in the "pc"
> Any particular reason why you boot the thing via tftp? I'd expect
> just having /boot on the sd card (which you need for boot anyway) is
> easier, especially when it comes to kernel updates.
I wanted the minimum on the sdcard (it just has the tftboot script)
because our build farm only has one
On 03/26/2012 03:09 PM, Andrew Haley wrote:
> I'd love to know how to do this. I've never used iSCSI.
Sorry, I missed http://www.delorie.com/arm/trimslice/iscsi.html
Andrew.
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On 03/23/2012 11:18 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
> Sorry, I'm a big fan of iSCSI on trimslices. The SATA interface is on
> USB but the gigE isn't, so network (iscsi) is about 3x faster than a
> local disk, if you have a big raid server on the other end.
I'd love to know how to do this. I've never used
On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 12:26:47PM +0200, Gerd Hoffmann wrote:
> Another possible way would be to boot directly from iscsi like you can
> do on x86 with an sanboot-enabled iPXE rom. I have no idea whenever
> u-boot can handle that though.
No. The U-boot supplied on the Trim-Slice is very simplis
On 03/26/12 11:00, Peter Robinson wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Gerd Hoffmann wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
they use a rather scary looking pile of development boards with very
poor I/O.
>>>
>>> Buy a trimslice and run it with iSCSI. It's a very clean package, and
>>> I can get 80 MB/se
On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Gerd Hoffmann wrote:
> Hi,
>
>>> they use a rather scary looking pile of development boards with very
>>> poor I/O.
>>
>> Buy a trimslice and run it with iSCSI. It's a very clean package, and
>> I can get 80 MB/sec to my file server's disks. That is neither
>> "
Hi,
>> they use a rather scary looking pile of development boards with very
>> poor I/O.
>
> Buy a trimslice and run it with iSCSI. It's a very clean package, and
> I can get 80 MB/sec to my file server's disks. That is neither
> "scary" nor "poor I/O".
>
> http://www.delorie.com/arm/trimsli
On Sat, 2012-03-24 at 05:30 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> DJ Delorie wrote:
> > What a horrible thing to say about a company that's put a lot of
> > effort into supporting their products on Free Software platforms!
>
> I think the Nouveau developers have a different story to tell you there.
You mi
DJ Delorie wrote:
> What a horrible thing to say about a company that's put a lot of
> effort into supporting their products on Free Software platforms!
I think the Nouveau developers have a different story to tell you there.
Kevin Kofler
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On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> DJ Delorie wrote:
>> So buy a trimslice and use the internal SSD or sata disk. The
>> trimslice has everything the netwinder has (and more), and uses half
>> the power.
>>
>> http://trimslice.com/web/
>
> "Trim-Slice is the first desktop com
On 23 March 2012 18:24, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> DJ Delorie wrote:
>> So buy a trimslice and use the internal SSD or sata disk. The
>> trimslice has everything the netwinder has (and more), and uses half
>> the power.
>>
>> http://trimslice.com/web/
>
> "Trim-Slice is the first desktop computer powe
> i.e., by buying a Trimslice, you give money to The Enemy!
What a horrible thing to say about a company that's put a lot of
effort into supporting their products on Free Software platforms!
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DJ Delorie wrote:
> So buy a trimslice and use the internal SSD or sata disk. The
> trimslice has everything the netwinder has (and more), and uses half
> the power.
>
> http://trimslice.com/web/
"Trim-Slice is the first desktop computer powered by NVIDIA Tegra 2."
i.e., by buying a Trimslice, y
DJ Delorie wrote:
>> always with the caveat that you can't just use "make -j 288" on them.
>
> Why not? Multi-CPU machines is very old technology.
Ask the people who designed those machines.
(My guess: memory and bus bandwidth. There's a limit to how many cores you
can put on a shared-memory,
Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> Of course, but numbers are numbers; we just have to pay attention to
> lighter, mobile formfactors. It is the same reasoning as in the desktop
> vs. server dilemma 15 years ago: you could say that 'servers are
> per-company devices', so Linux has been concentrating on the
DJ Delorie wrote:
Buy a trimslice and run it with iSCSI.
Pete Zaitcev wrote:
This is not good enough for me to become involved with Fedora on ARM.
Glad it works for you, but I need a real system, like a Netwinder.
You did see that there's a "Trimslice H" model that can accomodate a
2.5"
> So I see, thanks. DJ's original suggestion was too forceful in insisting
> on iSCSI.
Sorry, I'm a big fan of iSCSI on trimslices. The SATA interface is on
USB but the gigE isn't, so network (iscsi) is about 3x faster than a
local disk, if you have a big raid server on the other end.
I have tw
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Pete Zaitcev wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 22:05:39 +
> Peter Robinson wrote:
>
>> Trimslice has options of SSD or HDD as well so it would be no less of
>> a real machine like a netwinder.
>>
>> http://trimslice.com/web/models
>
> So I see, thanks. DJ's origin
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 22:05:39 +
Peter Robinson wrote:
> Trimslice has options of SSD or HDD as well so it would be no less of
> a real machine like a netwinder.
>
> http://trimslice.com/web/models
So I see, thanks. DJ's original suggestion was too forceful in insisting
on iSCSI. I also recei
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 22:02:37 +
"Richard W.M. Jones" wrote:
> > It unfortunately shed no light on the ARM topic, because, well,
> > there's ARM SoCs in all those form factors.
>
> Except the x86-64 high performance single threaded class :-)
Rich, check this out -
http://summit.openstack.org
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Pete Zaitcev wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:01:27 -0400
> DJ Delorie wrote:
>
>> Buy a trimslice and run it with iSCSI.
>
> This is not good enough for me to become involved with Fedora on ARM.
> Glad it works for you, but I need a real system, like a Netwinder.
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 04:50:38PM -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Pete Zaitcev wrote:
> >> Buy a trimslice and run it with iSCSI.
> >
> > This is not good enough for me to become involved with Fedora on ARM.
> > Glad it works for you, but I need a real system, lik
On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Pete Zaitcev wrote:
>> Buy a trimslice and run it with iSCSI.
>
> This is not good enough for me to become involved with Fedora on ARM.
> Glad it works for you, but I need a real system, like a Netwinder.
Whatever floats your boat! ARM SoCs are available in every
> Glad it works for you, but I need a real system, like a Netwinder.
So buy a trimslice and use the internal SSD or sata disk. The
trimslice has everything the netwinder has (and more), and uses half
the power.
http://trimslice.com/web/
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devel mailing list
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https
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:01:27 -0400
DJ Delorie wrote:
> Buy a trimslice and run it with iSCSI.
This is not good enough for me to become involved with Fedora on ARM.
Glad it works for you, but I need a real system, like a Netwinder.
-- Pete
--
devel mailing list
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htt
On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 04:46:23 +0100
Kevin Kofler wrote:
> My desktop is actually older and slower than my notebook. Yet I use the
> desktop whenever I'm at home. The form factor is just more convenient.
That's just what you personally prefer. I quit using desktops back
in 2001, because laptop fo
> always with the caveat that you can't just use "make -j 288" on them.
Why not? Multi-CPU machines is very old technology.
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On 03/23/2012 05:59 AM, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
And yes smartphones are booming, but they're not booming because they
are a good desktop substitute, they're booming because they are a
good dumbphone substitute (and before that digital cameras replaced
chemical cameras, and mp3 readers replaced wa
On 03/22/2012 10:42 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Przemek Klosowski wrote:
Fair enough, but the trends are well established, and the data are
for shipments so the actual deployed numbers are compounded (flat
shipments translate to steady growth, linear or faster shipment
growth means quadratic or ma
Le Jeu 22 mars 2012 21:13, Przemek Klosowski a écrit :
> Fair enough, but the trends are well established,
Like the netbook trends were well established?
In the last years there has been a clear struggle between users that want
cheaper computing and hardware manufacturers that want either to up
- Original Message -
> Define "do it " as MeeGo is dead and they had to cosy up to Microsoft
> to survive, not sure I'd even wish that on canonical!
In reality, Nokia never started working on MeeGo ;-)
Once we're sooo off-topic (and tablets and cell phones) became the topic,
I think ARM
On Mar 23, 2012 3:22 AM, "Kevin Kofler" wrote:
>
> Peter Robinson wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:28 PM, drago01 wrote:
> >> The only ones where this is possible right now are actually x86 based
> >> tablets. Even Windows 8 wont help here as MS mandates that the
> >> devices are locked wit
On Mar 22, 2012 8:47 PM, "Michael Cronenworth" wrote:
>
> Adam Williamson wrote:
>>
>> It doesn't seem like a huge over-reach to assume that any RH interest in
>> ARM is more on the server side than a raging desire to take on Android
>> and the iPad:) (Note: I don't have any sekrit inside info on
On Mar 22, 2012 8:32 PM, "Michael Cronenworth" wrote:
>
> Adam Williamson wrote:
>>
>> I would still like you to consider the question of whether this holds
>> for the Fedora case, though. Is Fedora as a project in fact suitable -
>> either in current implementation, or in terms of our self-defini
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Similarly, I don't want to replace my 13.3" notebook with a 7-10" tablet or
> netbook, even if the performance were the same. 13.3" fits nicely in my
> backpack, which fits my needs for mobility.
I think this conversation has gone wildly off-
On Mar 22, 2012, at 9:46 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Adam Williamson wrote:
>> Anecdotal data is great, but it's just anecdotal. I tried using a laptop
>> and no desktop for a year and switched back to a desktop, I found the
>> faff involved in switching between the two setups too much of a pain.
>>
Hi Kevin,
Thanks for your message.
On 03/22/2012 11:21 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Peter Robinson wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:28 PM, drago01 wrote:
>>> The only ones where this is possible right now are actually x86 based
>>> tablets. Even Windows 8 wont help here as MS mandates that th
Adam Williamson wrote:
> Anecdotal data is great, but it's just anecdotal. I tried using a laptop
> and no desktop for a year and switched back to a desktop, I found the
> faff involved in switching between the two setups too much of a pain.
> I'm sure I'm not unique either. =)
My desktop is actua
Peter Robinson wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:28 PM, drago01 wrote:
>> The only ones where this is possible right now are actually x86 based
>> tablets. Even Windows 8 wont help here as MS mandates that the
>> devices are locked with secure boot without having an option to disable
>> it.
>
>
Peter Robinson wrote:
> But as you said yourself in an earlier thread a lot of compilation
> isn't massively parallel so massive amount of cores for building isn't
> necessarily as much a win as pure GHz. On that front the current A15
> gen which is arriving now easily does the 2.5 - 3 ghz that the
Peter Robinson wrote:
> That is correct, I presume he's referring to the big.LITTLE
> architecture which runs 8 cores, 4 low power low speed, 4 high power
> high speed. At the moment for the initial implementation they are
> suspending / resuming to switch between the pair but in the future
> they
Peter Robinson wrote:
> But it's not just about computers, I'm very surprised that being the
> KDE advocate you are that you don't want to run your hard work on the
> KDE based Spark/Vivaldi tablet.
I'm not saying devices like the Vivaldi shouldn't be a target. I'm saying
they shouldn't be a PRIMA
Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> The number of desktops has been flat for last 7 years.
So first of all, as you pointed out yourself, this is not "the number of
desktop", but the number of NEW desktops shipped.
The numbers have been "flat" in that the growth in shipments has slowed
down. But they're
Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> Fair enough, but the trends are well established, and the data are for
> shipments so the actual deployed numbers are compounded (flat
> shipments translate to steady growth, linear or faster shipment growth
> means quadratic or maybe even exponential growth).
Quite the
On 03/22/2012 05:04 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
I tried using a
laptop and no desktop for a year and switched _back_ to a desktop, I
found the faff involved in switching between the two setups too much
of a pain. I'm sure I'm not unique either. =)
Me too.
Oops. I bet I'm not supposed to send
On Mar 22, 2012, at 3:04 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 14:55 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
>> On Mar 22, 2012, at 12:32 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
>>>
>>> The mitigating factors are:
>>>
>>> a) the desktop market could be considered unlikely to literally _die_.
>>> What may h
On Mar 22, 2012, at 2:23 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 14:08 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
>
>> The overwhelming bulk of the market is consumption. Not creation. And
>> the growth is in the former, not the latter.
>
> I would still like you to consider the question of whether
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 14:55 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Mar 22, 2012, at 12:32 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> >
> > The mitigating factors are:
> >
> > a) the desktop market could be considered unlikely to literally _die_.
> > What may happen instead is it could become much more of a niche - in
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 15:46 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> Adam Williamson wrote:
> > It doesn't seem like a huge over-reach to assume that any RH interest in
> > ARM is more on the server side than a raging desire to take on Android
> > and the iPad:) (Note: I don't have any sekrit inside in
On 03/22/2012 01:23 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
I would still like you to consider the question of whether this holds
for the Fedora case, though. Is Fedora as a project in fact suitable -
either in current implementation, or in terms of our self-definition and
long term goals - for this whole 'ma
On Mar 22, 2012, at 12:32 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
>
> The mitigating factors are:
>
> a) the desktop market could be considered unlikely to literally _die_.
> What may happen instead is it could become much more of a niche - in
> fact, very similar to what it was in the 1980s and early 1990s.
Adam Williamson wrote:
It doesn't seem like a huge over-reach to assume that any RH interest in
ARM is more on the server side than a raging desire to take on Android
and the iPad:) (Note: I don't have any sekrit inside info on this. It
seems like a reasonable guess, though.)
Yes, I realize th
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 15:32 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> Adam Williamson wrote:
> > I would still like you to consider the question of whether this holds
> > for the Fedora case, though. Is Fedora as a project in fact suitable -
> > either in current implementation, or in terms of our self-d
Adam Williamson wrote:
I would still like you to consider the question of whether this holds
for the Fedora case, though. Is Fedora as a project in fact suitable -
either in current implementation, or in terms of our self-definition and
long term goals - for this whole 'market' you are identifyin
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 16:13 -0400, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> Of course predictions are tricky, especially when they concern the
> future :)
I am curious as to what _other_ types of prediction you think exist. =)
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora |
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 14:08 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> The overwhelming bulk of the market is consumption. Not creation. And
> the growth is in the former, not the latter.
I would still like you to consider the question of whether this holds
for the Fedora case, though. Is Fedora as a project i
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 9:08 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
>
> [...]
>> A kindle (unless you mean the kindle fire tablet) is an ereader which
>> aligns exactly with what I have said.
>
> I think you overestimate the need/dependency people have for desktop/laptop
> computers.
You underestimate it ;)
Le
On 03/22/2012 02:38 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 09:11 -0400, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
On 03/22/2012 02:31 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Tom Lane wrote:
That opinion is flat out ridiculous. Or maybe it makes sense if you
think consumer desktops are the be-all and end-all; but th
On Mar 22, 2012, at 12:15 PM, drago01 wrote:
> Last time I checked a "paper" isn't a laptop / pc so replacing a paper
> with tablets (which can be the better choice depending on the use
> case) does not mean "people are replacing there pcs with tablets".
Both jump from PC dependency, and skippin
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 16:12 +0200, Nikos Roussos wrote:
>
> Despite the fact that this is pretty wild guess, I don't think that
> Fedora should only care about what's happening on the developed
> countries and ignore the rest of the world.
I don't think this is necessarily a developed-vs-develop
drago01 (drag...@gmail.com) said:
> > In my experience, that's way more about the interface than anything else.
> >
> > Take for example a middle schooler - mine uses a laptop. Not because it
> > runs a desktop OS, not because it runs Fedora, but mainly just because
> > who on earth wants to writ
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 09:11 -0400, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> On 03/22/2012 02:31 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> > Tom Lane wrote:
> >> That opinion is flat out ridiculous. Or maybe it makes sense if you
> >> think consumer desktops are the be-all and end-all; but they are not.
> >
> > Consumer desktop
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 01:57 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> Desktop computers are used overwhelmingly for email and web browsing.
> It's total overkill. The desktop computer is a super computer that no
> consumer really needs. It's a dying market.
I think you may be, to some extent, over-stating yo
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 7:27 PM, Martin Langhoff
wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:20 PM, drago01 wrote:
>> Which is exactly what I am trying to say as soon as you want to create
>> content you want a "real device". (keyboard! & interface)
>
> Folks! In this mailing list I'd expect people to kno
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:20 PM, drago01 wrote:
> Which is exactly what I am trying to say as soon as you want to create
> content you want a "real device". (keyboard! & interface)
Folks! In this mailing list I'd expect people to know: an arch is an
arch is an arch.
Some ARM CPUs will control yo
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> drago01 (drag...@gmail.com) said:
>> > The data is noisy but there's a significant minority who do not have
>> > computers, now buying a smart phone. This will grow. They may never end up
>> > with a desktop. Even Apple has disconnected a
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 6:40 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 22, 2012, at 3:16 AM, drago01 wrote:
>>
>> I said the people I was talking about used them as toys. (Please read
>> what I wrote and don't try to refute stuff that isn't even written
>> there).
>
> Don't get in a huff over things I
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 7:01 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
>> Where is the hardware? Do you see signs of ARM boards coming in the
>> near future (next 1 year or so) on which users can install operating
>> systems of their choice?
>
> I wonder where you've been. See Raspberry Pi and Trimslice for a
> co
> From what I know about the Fedora on ARM,
Please check your "what you know" against the current situtation, it's
very easy to let obsolete impressions carry forth, but they're no
longer applicable.
> they use a rather scary looking pile of development boards with very
> poor I/O.
Buy a trimsl
drago01 (drag...@gmail.com) said:
> > The data is noisy but there's a significant minority who do not have
> > computers, now buying a smart phone. This will grow. They may never end up
> > with a desktop. Even Apple has disconnected a requirement for having a
> > desktop. My parents are candid
On 03/22/2012 04:26 AM, Peter Robinson wrote:
Actually that is not the case, it might be the case in the western
developed world, but in the developing world in places like China,
India and Africa in most cases the first an only device that a user
has is a smart phone or tablet due to the fact it
On Mar 22, 2012, at 8:04 AM, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>>
>
> Apples and oranges. You could print the same stats a few years ago about cars
> vs scooters/bicycles
>
> Guess what all the Chinese/Indian bicycle riders started to buy as soon as
> they had the means to…
They did not, are not. Especi
On 03/22/2012 12:23 AM, drago01 wrote:
While I agree that we will see more smartphones and tablets in the
future the people that actually replace there traditional computers
with tablets or even smartphones are near zero.
Sells do not really tell the whole story as many people simply don't
have a
On Mar 22, 2012, at 3:16 AM, drago01 wrote:
>
> I said the people I was talking about used them as toys. (Please read
> what I wrote and don't try to refute stuff that isn't even written
> there).
Don't get in a huff over things I haven't said either. Most people are also
very entertained by t
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:52:29 -0400
Peter Jones wrote:
> 6) supported platforms must be fully integrated into building and
> installation.
Apropos that, what are the supported platforms right now?
From what I know about the Fedora on ARM, they use a rather scary
looking pile of development b
> Where is the hardware?
-- development boards --
BeagleBoard
PandaBoard (dual-core 1GHz, 1GB)
PandaBoard ES (dual-core 1.2GHz, 1GB)
You can buy the above at digikey, they've been shipping for a while.
They come with Ubuntu Desktop, just add keyboard, mouse, and monitor.
Raspberry Pi - slower,
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:28 PM, drago01 wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Peter Robinson wrote:
>>> I see that this discussion has gone from ARM as a primary architecture
>>> for Fedora to a general Tablets vs PC market discussion. IMHO, While
>>> the
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Peter Robinson wrote:
>> I see that this discussion has gone from ARM as a primary architecture
>> for Fedora to a general Tablets vs PC market discussion. IMHO, While
>> there is no doubt that the tablet/mobile market is growing rapidly,
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Nicolas Mailhot <
nicolas.mail...@laposte.net> wrote:
>
> Le Jeu 22 mars 2012 14:11, Przemek Klosowski a écrit :
> > On 03/22/2012 02:31 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> >> Tom Lane wrote:
> >>> That opinion is flat out ridiculous. Or maybe it makes sense if you
> >>> th
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 15:04 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> Le Jeu 22 mars 2012 14:11, Przemek Klosowski a écrit :
> > On 03/22/2012 02:31 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> >> Tom Lane wrote:
> >>> That opinion is flat out ridiculous. Or maybe it makes sense if you
> >>> think consumer desktops are the b
Le Jeu 22 mars 2012 14:11, Przemek Klosowski a écrit :
> On 03/22/2012 02:31 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
>> Tom Lane wrote:
>>> That opinion is flat out ridiculous. Or maybe it makes sense if you
>>> think consumer desktops are the be-all and end-all; but they are not.
>>
>> Consumer desktops and not
On 03/22/2012 02:31 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Tom Lane wrote:
That opinion is flat out ridiculous. Or maybe it makes sense if you
think consumer desktops are the be-all and end-all; but they are not.
Consumer desktops and notebooks. The things we normally call "computers".
Those have always bee
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Peter Robinson wrote:
>> I see that this discussion has gone from ARM as a primary architecture
>> for Fedora to a general Tablets vs PC market discussion. IMHO, While
>> there is no doubt that the tablet/mobile market is growing rapidly,
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 9:02 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
> On 03/22/2012 01:38 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
>
>> (but the "multi-core" ARM setups actually present themselves as a
>> multi-computer cluster, which is not supported by "make -j", not as
>> a multi-CPU computer)
>
> FWIW, I'm pretty sure this i
> I see that this discussion has gone from ARM as a primary architecture
> for Fedora to a general Tablets vs PC market discussion. IMHO, While
> there is no doubt that the tablet/mobile market is growing rapidly,
> The desktop and laptops are there to stay.
>
> Considerin
>>> Well people couldn't live without "dumbphones" either so this is
>>> natural progress.
>>
>> They could. They had desktops or laptops. Most people would replace their
>> phone in a day if it broke or were lost. A home computer? Weekend. Maybe
>> next weekend.
>>
>
> Most people that buy smart
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