On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 18:43, Lennart Poettering wrote:
>
> systemctl enable foobar.service
> systemctl reload foobar.service ### reload if running
>
> or just:
>
> systemctl enable foobar.service
>
> or, for debian folks which want to start services after package installation:
I just got a new report from Koji saying there were errors recorded in
root.log for the build of OggConvert on the PPC machines.
http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=2344902&name=root.log
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 6:55 PM, David Malcolm wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 17:04 -0400, Dav
On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 02:43:45AM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Thu, 22.07.10 20:40, Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) wrote:
> systemctl stop postfix.service
> systemctl disable postfix.service
> systemctl enable foobar.service
> systemctl try-restart foobar.servic
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 02:43:45 +0200
Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Thu, 22.07.10 20:40, Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de)
> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Thu, 22.07.10 08:05, Simo Sorce (sso...@redhat.com) wrote:
> >
> > > > to make real; give reality to (a hope, fear, plan, etc.).
> > > >
> >
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 04:12:53 +0200
Lennart Poettering wrote:
> To get rid of dep cycles we have to declare which daemon may use which
> other daemon. For example, for the case of mysql and syslog, we can
> say that mysql is client and syslog is server and then be done with
> it. If we look on sss
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 04:12:53 +0200
Lennart Poettering wrote:
> Also, if you look at sssd and a simple hypothetical syslog daemon
> which looks up the user id of everybody connecting to it. If sssd is
> used this will deadlock: sssd logs to syslog, and syslog uses NSS to
> resovle your user id and
On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 04:12:53 +0200
Lennart Poettering wrote:
> Well, in your sssd example above the cyclic dependency exists with or
> without systemd. You try to work around this fact in saying "well,
> I simply say that nobody could ever need my services before a certain
> point P in time after
On Thu, 22.07.10 22:21, Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 02:31:49AM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > Note that "systemctl enable foo.service" will (with my suggested changes
> > in place) result in foo.service to be started. For Fedora we generally
>
> Is
On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 02:31:49AM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> Note that "systemctl enable foo.service" will (with my suggested changes
> in place) result in foo.service to be started. For Fedora we generally
Is that "will not result"? Otherwise I'm having trouble parsing this
paragraph.
On Thu, 22.07.10 21:30, Horst H. von Brand (vonbr...@inf.utfsm.cl) wrote:
>
> Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > On Thu, 22.07.10 15:19, Simo Sorce (sso...@redhat.com) wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > > Bad example, it may make sense if you have a single host, but if you
> > > have multiple HTTP servers, you
On Thu, 22.07.10 15:12, Simo Sorce (sso...@redhat.com) wrote:
> > If a service A uses functionality provided by a service B which in
> > turn uses functionality provided by A then things willbreak regardless
> > whether systemd is used or not.
>
> This is not true.
> SSSD is an example of that.
>
Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> Trust me, the output of the two commands is sufficiently different to
> not confuse anybody.
It isn't the output that is confusing, it is the names. "show" and
"status" are just too close, and people are not going to remember which
is which.
--
Chris
Compose started at Thu Jul 22 21:49:08 UTC 2010
Broken deps for x86_64
--
BackupPC-3.1.0-14.1.fc14.noarch requires perl-suidperl
PragmARC-20060427-6.fc13.i686 requires libgnarl-4.4.so
PragmARC-20060427-6.fc13.i686 requ
Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
[...]
> This may not be true. No packaging guidelines have been put forth
> for systemd yet so I cannot know:
>
> * if we continue to require sysVinit scripts in the guidlines, this is true.
> * If we don't, then sysadmins that have to install packages without sysvinit
>
Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> 2010/7/22 "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" :
> > I think it's time to re-inform everyone since they seemed to be so
> > focused on systemd and have completely forgot about upstart.
> >
> > Nobody has said anything that upstart was being deprecated nobody!
>
> That's not exactly wha
Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Thu, 22.07.10 16:36, Horst H. von Brand (vonbr...@inf.utfsm.cl) wrote:
> > Lennart Poettering wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > Well, I think good UI means that you distuingish computer parsable and
> > > human readable tools. "status" is human readable. "show"/"chec
Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Thu, 22.07.10 15:19, Simo Sorce (sso...@redhat.com) wrote:
[...]
> > Bad example, it may make sense if you have a single host, but if you
> > have multiple HTTP servers, you want the one that died to stop answering
> > until it is back up and running and ready to s
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 19:06 -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> > Same with systemd. If you use "systemctl status foo.service" the output
> > is human readable. If it is "systemctl show foo.service" it is computer
> > parsable. Just a slightly different command
Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Wed, 14.07.10 21:38, Bill Nottingham (nott...@redhat.com) wrote:
[...]
> > I think some of this is just the tools being inconsistent in terminology.
> >
> > Take systemctl:
> >
> > - It has a LOAD column (which is always 'loaded', in observation)
>
> Well, that
On Thu, 22.07.10 19:08, Toshio Kuratomi (a.bad...@gmail.com) wrote:
> > Now that everybody has been (re)informed we can go back on focusing
> > working out these issues together without any negativity on any ones behalf.
> >
> This may not be true. No packaging guidelines have been put forth
>
On Thu, 22.07.10 18:16, Stephen John Smoogen (smo...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 18:06, Chris Adams wrote:
> > Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> >> Same with systemd. If you use "systemctl status foo.service" the output
> >> is human readable. If it is "systemctl sh
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On 07/22/2010 05:54 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> So, "show" is very verbose. On the other hand "status" is pretty
> short. It only shows runtime information and that in a hightly reduced
> way. For example fields are suppressed depending on the stat
On Thu, 22.07.10 19:06, Chris Adams (cmad...@hiwaay.net) wrote:
>
> Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> > Same with systemd. If you use "systemctl status foo.service" the output
> > is human readable. If it is "systemctl show foo.service" it is computer
> > parsable. Just a slightly dif
On Thu, 22.07.10 20:40, Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) wrote:
>
> On Thu, 22.07.10 08:05, Simo Sorce (sso...@redhat.com) wrote:
>
> > > to make real; give reality to (a hope, fear, plan, etc.).
> > >
> > > but its seems quite an abstract term to associate reality with an
> > > abstr
On Thu, 22.07.10 19:59, Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 01:49:12AM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > > My impression from the documentation is that systemd-install enable will
> > > cause the service to be enabled on the next reboot. Is that not
> > > cor
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 18:06, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
>> Same with systemd. If you use "systemctl status foo.service" the output
>> is human readable. If it is "systemctl show foo.service" it is computer
>> parsable. Just a slightly different command of th
Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> Same with systemd. If you use "systemctl status foo.service" the output
> is human readable. If it is "systemctl show foo.service" it is computer
> parsable. Just a slightly different command of the systemctl tool.
Again: this is confusing! There shou
On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 01:49:12AM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > My impression from the documentation is that systemd-install enable will
> > cause the service to be enabled on the next reboot. Is that not
> > correct?
> Yes, unless you aks the init system to reload.
Wait, am I correct in
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 17:04 -0400, David Malcolm wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 13:43 -0400, David Malcolm wrote:
> > On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 13:07 -0400, David Malcolm wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > I messed up, and there's a bug in which python doesn't startup if
> > > python-devel is not instal
On Thu, 22.07.10 19:41, Toshio Kuratomi (a.bad...@gmail.com) wrote:
> > if [ $1 -eq 1 ] ; then
> > # For new installations, hook unit file into the appropriate places
> > via symlinks
> > /usr/bin/systemd-install enable --realize=reload %{unit
> > name}.service > /dev/null 2>&1 |
On Thu, 22.07.10 16:36, Horst H. von Brand (vonbr...@inf.utfsm.cl) wrote:
>
> Lennart Poettering wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > Well, I think good UI means that you distuingish computer parsable and
> > human readable tools. "status" is human readable. "show"/"check" are
> > computer-parsable.
>
> Mi
On Thu, 22.07.10 13:39, Jeff Spaleta (jspal...@gmail.com) wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Horst H. von Brand
> wrote:
> > Great to know about that. And yes, it is extremely relevant for a sysadmin
> > to know how to tickle the system so it spits out awk(1)-able logs and stuff.
>
>
>
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 03:30:42AM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Wed, 21.07.10 20:08, Toshio Kuratomi (a.bad...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> > > - If you want to enable and possibly start a service from the %post of
> > > an RPM then use the "systemd-install enable" command, which will
> > >
On Thu, 22.07.10 15:19, Simo Sorce (sso...@redhat.com) wrote:
> > But also HTTP is a good candidate. When apache shuts down it closes
> > the listening socket but will finish processing the requests it
> > already began to process. Would apache use socket actviation like
> > this it would hence be
On Fri, 23.07.10 01:17, Rahul Sundaram (methe...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> On 07/23/2010 01:14 AM, Alexander Boström wrote:
> > But the thing to remember: If systemd-install is too complicated to use,
> > people will keep using chkconfig and service instead and ignore the
> > warning. That's why it's
On Thu, 22.07.10 17:51, Horst H. von Brand (vonbr...@inf.utfsm.cl) wrote:
> > Kay and I have discussed this now. We agreed to fold systemd-install
> > into systemctl entirely, and replace --realize by --now. Also, we'll
> > drop some of the options --realize had, and always imply that the init
> >
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 09:44:31PM +0200, Alexander Boström wrote:
> > But for basics such as "chkconfig service on|off|--list", there should
> > be compatibility.
>
> Yes. I basically use:
>
> chkconfig foo on
> chkconfig foo off
> env LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 chkconfig --list | fgrep :on |awk '{print $
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 02:43:47PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> I think --now is fine. There's even precedent: the famous 'shutdown -h
> now'.
Bonus points if it also allows midnight, noon, and teatime a la `at`.
:)
--
Matthew Miller
Senior Systems Architect -- Instructional & Research Com
On Fri, 23.07.10 00:55, Rahul Sundaram (methe...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> On 07/23/2010 12:10 AM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > Kay and I have discussed this now. We agreed to fold systemd-install
> > into systemctl entirely, and replace --realize by --now. Also, we'll
> > drop some of the options -
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 08:21:59PM +, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
> On 07/22/2010 06:37 PM, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> > Personally, speaking as a person_and_ a sysadmin, it would be
> > worthwhile to have a big freakin button somewhere that allowed me to
> > disable all native systemd config
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 01:39:06PM -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Horst H. von Brand
> wrote:
> > Great to know about that. And yes, it is extremely relevant for a sysadmin
> > to know how to tickle the system so it spits out awk(1)-able logs and stuff.
>
>
> Hmm
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 09:22 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> Leadership means making careful, well-conceived decisions. Otherwise, it's
> not leading, it's charging around blindly shouting "follow me!".
I'll leave the rest of the thread to Matthew and Mike McGrath, since
they seem to share my posit
On Fri, 2010-07-23 at 03:18 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> On 07/23/2010 03:13 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 17:37 -0400, Horst H. von Brand wrote:
> >> What do other commands use for "do it now" (instead of "later")? Perhaps
> >> the ubiquitous "-f/--force" will do?
> >>
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> I have seen this done with a couple of GNU tools in the past. The
> problems that usually stopped this was that too many strange consoles
> seem to be a pipe at somepoint and so it spits out the wrong format at
> the wrong time. It is
Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Thu, 22.07.10 08:05, Simo Sorce (sso...@redhat.com) wrote:
>
> > > to make real; give reality to (a hope, fear, plan, etc.).
> > >
> > > but its seems quite an abstract term to associate reality with an
> > > abstract computer object.
> >
> > Dave, I am not a nat
On 07/23/2010 03:13 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 17:37 -0400, Horst H. von Brand wrote:
>> What do other commands use for "do it now" (instead of "later")? Perhaps
>> the ubiquitous "-f/--force" will do?
>>
> I think --now is fine. There's even precedent: the famous 'shut
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 15:39, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Horst H. von Brand
> wrote:
>> Great to know about that. And yes, it is extremely relevant for a sysadmin
>> to know how to tickle the system so it spits out awk(1)-able logs and stuff.
>
>
> Hmm... can these
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 15:52 +0900, Mamoru Tasaka wrote:
> Jeff Spaleta wrote, at 07/22/2010 03:11 PM +9:00:
> > On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:00 PM, David Malcolm wrote:
> >> - numpy is segfaulting during %check; am waiting on a gdb build to
> >> finish (linked against 2.7) before I debug; this block
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 17:37 -0400, Horst H. von Brand wrote:
> > however is very confusing when you'd write "disable --start" to disable
> > something and then have it stop...) We then considered "--now", because
> > it is not a verb.
>
> What is wrong with that? "enable --now" and "disable --now
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Horst H. von Brand
wrote:
> Great to know about that. And yes, it is extremely relevant for a sysadmin
> to know how to tickle the system so it spits out awk(1)-able logs and stuff.
Hmm... can these tools learn to prefer a certain format when they are
piped int
Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Thu, 22.07.10 12:06, Dave Airlie (airl...@redhat.com) wrote:
[...]
> > Wow thats pretty special... both an option called realize and a
> > argument, that won't get confusing no matter how long it lives, also
> > realize doesn't seem to be conveying a useful meaning
I am sending this on behalf of Dave Lawrence and the bugzilla team at
Red Hat. Please forward this on to any appropriate lists that were
missed.
> Greetings,
>
> The Red Hat Bugzilla team is happy to announce the first public beta
> release of the next version of Red Hat Bugzilla based on the
>
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 03:12:46PM -0600, Orion Poplawski wrote:
> Looks, looks like gcc can do certain compile time bounds checking (probably
> for ages but I'm slow) and emits warnings like:
>
> In function 'strcpy',
> inlined from 'New_psimage_Ctrl' at psimage.c:357:9:
> /usr/include/bits
Looks, looks like gcc can do certain compile time bounds checking (probably
for ages but I'm slow) and emits warnings like:
In function 'strcpy',
inlined from 'New_psimage_Ctrl' at psimage.c:357:9:
/usr/include/bits/string3.h:107:3: warning: call to __builtin___strcpy_chk
will always overfl
Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Wed, 21.07.10 19:39, Mike McGrath (mmcgr...@redhat.com) wrote:
[...]
> > Who has been requesting this? What requirements did they give? The
> > problem people seem to be having is the reasons you give in the above
> > paragraph are reasons you yourself invented,
2010/7/22 "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" :
> I think it's time to re-inform everyone since they seemed to be so
> focused on systemd and have completely forgot about upstart.
>
> Nobody has said anything that upstart was being deprecated nobody!
That's not exactly what I'm talking about... though that's
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 13:43 -0400, David Malcolm wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 13:07 -0400, David Malcolm wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > I messed up, and there's a bug in which python doesn't startup if
> > python-devel is not installed, which led to the majority of the "noarch"
> > builds failing. [
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 01:29:03AM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> And btw, you can even create automount points via
> comment=systemd.automount as mount option in /etc/fstab. You don't even
> have to place an .automount file anywhere. For the API file systems
> however we decided to do just tha
Mike McGrath wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, Colin Walters wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Mike McGrath wrote:
> > > I think the bigger question is why are we doing this?
> >
> > There's some motivation here:
> > http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html
> I was pretty clear in ev
Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Wed, 21.07.10 20:13, Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) wrote:
>
> > It appears that you're looking at this from the point of view of chkconfig
> > as a tool which causes certain manipuations of the system to happen
> > (symlinks changed). That's the backwards appro
On 07/22/2010 06:37 PM, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> Personally, speaking as a person_and_ a sysadmin, it would be
> worthwhile to have a big freakin button somewhere that allowed me to
> disable all native systemd config files and let me run sysinit style
> files when the situation demands... ie crap
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=617013
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=433803&action=diff
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=433803&action=edit
--
389-devel mailing list
389-de...@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/389-dev
Lennart Poettering wrote:
[...]
> Well, I think good UI means that you distuingish computer parsable and
> human readable tools. "status" is human readable. "show"/"check" are
> computer-parsable.
Mildly disagree. It is nice to be able to remember from people-use what the
output looks like when
On Wed, 2010-07-21 at 12:52 -0700, Dan Williams wrote:
> On Sat, 2010-07-17 at 13:36 +0200, Michel Alexandre Salim wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > F-13's NetworkManager is currently still at version
> > 0.8.1-0.1.git20100510.fc13, which on my Sony netbook intermittently
> > disconnects on some networks, an
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 10:37:20AM -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
[...]
> I'd wager that if we were having this discussion in a room with the
> very same people, I think the emotional reactions over the areas of
> conflict would be much reduced and personality quirk mismatches
> wouldn't cause so much
On 07/23/2010 01:14 AM, Alexander Boström wrote:
> But the thing to remember: If systemd-install is too complicated to use,
> people will keep using chkconfig and service instead and ignore the
> warning. That's why it's important to have something that supports
> everything that systemd does while
ons 2010-07-21 klockan 22:13 -0400 skrev Chuck Anderson:
> But for basics such as "chkconfig service on|off|--list", there should
> be compatibility.
Yes. I basically use:
chkconfig foo on
chkconfig foo off
env LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 chkconfig --list | fgrep :on |awk '{print $1}
The rest I don't real
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On 07/22/2010 07:41 AM, Severin Gehwolf wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We are working on an Eclipse plug-in for Fedora Packagers, which
> provides tooling for RPM packaging for Fedora (without needing to
> resort to CLI). Since we are planning on supporting dist-gi
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 08:40:53PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> I hope this simplification sounds good to many of you.
It does. Thanks.
--
Matthew Miller
Senior Systems Architect -- Instructional & Research Computing Services
Harvard School of Engineering & Applied Sciences
--
devel mail
ons 2010-07-21 klockan 09:30 -0800 skrev Jeff Spaleta:
> I'm not part of the zero regression fanclub. But I'd like to help do
> what is reasonable to minimize the frustration of introducing a new
> way of doing things. The deprecation warnings are reasonable to me. We
> aren't going to reduce that
On 07/23/2010 12:10 AM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> Kay and I have discussed this now. We agreed to fold systemd-install
> into systemctl entirely, and replace --realize by --now. Also, we'll
> drop some of the options --realize had, and always imply that the init
> system configuration shall be re
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:40:53 +0200
Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Thu, 22.07.10 08:05, Simo Sorce (sso...@redhat.com) wrote:
>
> > > to make real; give reality to (a hope, fear, plan, etc.).
> > >
> > > but its seems quite an abstract term to associate reality with an
> > > abstract computer o
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:04:44 +0200
Lennart Poettering wrote:
> But also HTTP is a good candidate. When apache shuts down it closes
> the listening socket but will finish processing the requests it
> already began to process. Would apache use socket actviation like
> this it would hence be restart
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On 07/22/2010 02:16 AM, Hans Ulrich Niedermann wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-07-21 at 11:48 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
>> On 07/21/2010 01:55 AM, Hans Ulrich Niedermann wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2010-07-20 at 22:15 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
On 07/20/2010 08:
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:35:22 +0200
Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Thu, 22.07.10 11:29, Simo Sorce (sso...@redhat.com) wrote:
>
> > > they hence would have needed to be started one after the other, so
> > > that every service using another services can be sure it can talk
> > > to the one it need
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On 07/22/2010 02:19 AM, Hans Ulrich Niedermann wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 10:19 +0200, Andreas Schwab wrote:
>> Jesse Keating writes:
>>
>>> master -> origin/master
>>> f13 -> origin/f13/master
>>> f12 -> origin/f12/master
>>
>> Please don't. The
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On 07/22/2010 01:19 AM, Andreas Schwab wrote:
> Jesse Keating writes:
>
>> master -> origin/master
>> f13 -> origin/f13/master
>> f12 -> origin/f12/master
>
> Please don't. The remote and local branches should be named the same so
> that "git check
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 20:40 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> Kay and I have discussed this now. We agreed to fold systemd-install
> into systemctl entirely, and replace --realize by --now. Also, we'll
> drop some of the options --realize had, and always imply that the init
> system configuration
On Thu, 22.07.10 08:05, Simo Sorce (sso...@redhat.com) wrote:
> > to make real; give reality to (a hope, fear, plan, etc.).
> >
> > but its seems quite an abstract term to associate reality with an
> > abstract computer object.
>
> Dave, I am not a native speaker, but I have the exact (or may b
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> Can we please stick to the technical issues here? That is, how we should
> implement systemd to make the transition from upstart/sysv as painless
> as possible, and perhaps some semantic improvements to the parameters
> and command names Le
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 09:22 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> I am not getting the message from this thread that systemd developers
> believe that. Rather, we get "it's clearly a matter of taste and
> bike-shedding", and "I probably shouldn't even have bothered to even reply
> to this mail of yours."
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 13:07 -0400, David Malcolm wrote:
[snip]
> I messed up, and there's a bug in which python doesn't startup if
> python-devel is not installed, which led to the majority of the "noarch"
> builds failing. [1]
>
> Sorry about that. I'm working on a fixed python package.
Hope
On Thu, 22.07.10 09:11, Jeff Spaleta (jspal...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 8:48 AM, Lennart Poettering
> wrote:
> > Looking at what Windows and MacOS do in this area is probably
> > healthy. Both systems rearrange sectors on disk and parallelize as much
> > as possible. I think
Lennart Poettering píše v Čt 22. 07. 2010 v 19:12 +0200:
> What was discussed by FESCO was whether we should make it the default in
> F14. And FESCO said yes.
That's not what I understand from
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-06-15/fesco.2010-06-15-19.35.log.html#l-446
. Was
On Thu, 22.07.10 11:00, Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 04:18:34PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > Fedora. Now, who's right? It's unlikely that we can figure that out for
> > sure, given that Fedora is a lot of things to a lot of people, so our
> > two o
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 8:48 AM, Lennart Poettering
wrote:
> Looking at what Windows and MacOS do in this area is probably
> healthy. Both systems rearrange sectors on disk and parallelize as much
> as possible. I think that's bascially a good recipe we should follow
> too. systemd caters for the
On 07/13/2010 07:24 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> Heya,
>
> as many of you probably know systemd got accepted as feature for F-14 by
> FESCO a few weeks back.
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/systemd
I just want to say that I am excited to explore this new system, but very
concerned
On Thursday, July 22, 2010 01:45:37 am Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:54:32AM -0500, Dennis Gilmore wrote:
> > right now a glibc build is going on that has --enablekernel=2.6.32
> >
> > from Jakub
> >
> > Bumping that from 2.6.18 used currently means e.g. to get rid of com
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 11:28 -0400, David Malcolm wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 08:39 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > > On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 02:00:45 -0400
> > > David Malcolm wrote:
> > >
> > > ...snip...
> > >
> > >> - build ordering was muc
On Thu, 22.07.10 11:31, Simo Sorce (sso...@redhat.com) wrote:
>
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:49:50 +0200
> Lennart Poettering wrote:
>
> > 3. Robustness: The sockets stay around all the time, and always
> > connectable. You can kill a daemon but you won't lose a single
> > connection while doing th
On Thu, 22.07.10 18:48, Miloslav Trmač (m...@volny.cz) wrote:
> Lennart Poettering píše v Čt 22. 07. 2010 v 18:35 +0200:
> > If a service A uses functionality provided by a service B which in turn
> > uses functionality provided by A then things willbreak regardless
> > whether systemd is used or
Lennart Poettering píše v Čt 22. 07. 2010 v 18:35 +0200:
> If a service A uses functionality provided by a service B which in turn
> uses functionality provided by A then things willbreak regardless
> whether systemd is used or not.
>
> Cyclic dependencies cause deadlocks. Introducing systemd has
On Thu, 22.07.10 10:42, Mike McGrath (mmcgr...@redhat.com) wrote:
> > how do you deal with circular dependencies in this case?
> > I mean what will happen ? Will all services just deadlock?
> > Malfunction ? Anything that guarantees correct initialization and
> > behavior ?
>
> In addition to cir
On Thu, 22.07.10 11:29, Simo Sorce (sso...@redhat.com) wrote:
> > they hence would have needed to be started one after the other, so
> > that every service using another services can be sure it can talk to
> > the one it needs. I mean, how awesome is that? We can completely
> > remove *any* kind o
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 10:42:19AM -0500, Mike McGrath wrote:
> In addition to circular deps, have any studies been done on disk
> contention when you just start everything all at once? If we're not
> careful we could actually increase boot time in some scenarios. I guess
> one way to check would
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010, Simo Sorce wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:49:50 +0200
> Lennart Poettering wrote:
>
> > 1. Parallelization: we can completely get rid of any serialization of
> > startup. We can start *every* signle daemon at the same time in one
> > big step, regardless whether one of them
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:49:50 +0200
Lennart Poettering wrote:
> 3. Robustness: The sockets stay around all the time, and always
> connectable. You can kill a daemon but you won't lose a single
> connection while doing that! Particularly for stateless protocols
> (such as DNS or syslog) we can auto
On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:49:50 +0200
Lennart Poettering wrote:
> 1. Parallelization: we can completely get rid of any serialization of
> startup. We can start *every* signle daemon at the same time in one
> big step, regardless whether one of them needs another. i.e. we can
> start avahi at the sam
On Thu, 2010-07-22 at 08:39 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 02:00:45 -0400
> > David Malcolm wrote:
> >
> > ...snip...
> >
> >> - build ordering was much more important than I hoped; most of the
> >> failures in this run see
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:11:31AM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 03:52:06PM +0200, drago01 wrote:
> > Everyone has to pay this cost and everyone gets something in return.
>
> And the way you present this as an _overall win_ is by emphasizing the
> returns and decreasing th
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