On 2013-10-22 6:34 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
On 10/22/2013 6:19 PM, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
On 2013-10-22 4:06 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
I don't think that there is enough data yet to make a decision.
Hopefully funnelcake results which help make a more informed choice. If
it turns out that t
On 10/22/2013 6:19 PM, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
On 2013-10-22 4:06 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
I don't think that there is enough data yet to make a decision.
Hopefully funnelcake results which help make a more informed choice. If
it turns out that that Firefox wants this decision reconsidered, wha
On 2013-10-22 4:06 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
I don't think that there is enough data yet to make a decision.
Hopefully funnelcake results which help make a more informed choice. If
it turns out that that Firefox wants this decision reconsidered, what
groups and goals would be affected by askin
On 10/22/13, 2:09 PM, wsel...@gmail.com wrote:
One suggestion that our team came up with is to provide Firefox-branded USB
keys and distribute them through reps, chains like KFC and 7-11, and local
computer vendors where people connect online. These would have installers for
the latest version
This is a great thought and we've been exploring something similar.
One suggestion that our team came up with is to provide Firefox-branded USB
keys and distribute them through reps, chains like KFC and 7-11, and local
computer vendors where people connect online. These would have installers for
On 10/22/13 11:34 AM, wsel...@mozilla.com wrote:
The key point is that download size is very important in these markets. Also,
it is important for us to think about two related topics:
1) How to get people in these markets to current versions of Firefox?
2) If downloading is not currently the mo
On 10/15/2013 12:06 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
With the landing of bug 853301, we are now shipping ICU in desktop
Firefox builds. This costs us about 10% in both download and on-disk
footprint
I'm going to try and summarize the discussion and indicate next steps.
==
First, I want to be clea
Hi,
Bill from user research here.
We just finished some research in Thailand and Indonesia where we conducted ~40
interviews with desktop browser users (half of whom were Firefox users). We'll
be presenting findings from the research next month, but I'd like to share a
few observations from t
On 10/18/13 4:06 PM, Chris Peterson wrote:
On 10/17/13 11:43 AM, Matt Brubeck wrote:
For this reason, I'm a bit confused at the level of scrutiny of ICU's
size when we've added many times that amount to our download size over
the past couple of years without any pushback or even discussion.
Do
On 10/17/13 11:43 AM, Matt Brubeck wrote:
For this reason, I'm a bit confused at the level of scrutiny of ICU's
size when we've added many times that amount to our download size over
the past couple of years without any pushback or even discussion.
Do we have "Funnelcake" data comparing downloa
On 10/17/2013 10:24 AM, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
We used to have codesighs measurements (and perhaps still do) but
historically many people just ignored them.
We stopped collecting codesighs measurements in November 2012 (bug
803736). As Ehsan says, it was widely ignored. It "regressed"
constan
On 2013-10-16 6:10 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote:
Possible crazy idea: do we actively track and send tree management
notices when package or binary size changes? This seems like something
we'd want to cover under the "perf regressions get backed out or need
approval" policy. It may also help identify b
On 10/17/13 3:41 PM, Brian Smith wrote:
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 3:46 AM, Axel Hecht wrote:
We have issues with disk space, currently. We're already in the situation
where all our keyboard data doesn't fit on quite a few of the devices out
there.
Where can one read more about this? This ICU da
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 3:46 AM, Axel Hecht wrote:
> We have issues with disk space, currently. We're already in the situation
> where all our keyboard data doesn't fit on quite a few of the devices out
> there.
Where can one read more about this? This ICU data is not *that* huge.
If we can't aff
On 10/17/13 2:41 PM, Dao wrote:
On 16.10.2013 17:02, Axel Hecht wrote:
We'll need to go down a path that works for Firefox OS.
[...]
But, yes, I think we'll need a hosted service to provide that data on
demand in the end.
This sounds like a non-starter for mobile devices, doesn't it?
Wel
On 16.10.2013 17:02, Axel Hecht wrote:
We'll need to go down a path that works for Firefox OS.
[...]
But, yes, I think we'll need a hosted service to provide that data on
demand in the end.
This sounds like a non-starter for mobile devices, doesn't it?
__
On 10/16/13 5:39 PM, Jeff Walden wrote:
On 10/16/2013 02:10 PM, Axel Hecht wrote:
I wonder how far we can get by doing something along the lines we use for
webfonts, starting to do the best we can with the data we already have, and
improve once the perfect data is local.
Having the Intl.Foo a
On 10/17/13 12:02 PM, Gervase Markham wrote:
On 16/10/13 16:02, Axel Hecht wrote:
We'll need to go down a path that works for Firefox OS.
With Firefox OS, we don't have the download-size issue, do we? So we can
ship all the data.
Gerv
We have issues with disk space, currently. We're alread
On 16/10/13 16:02, Axel Hecht wrote:
> We'll need to go down a path that works for Firefox OS.
With Firefox OS, we don't have the download-size issue, do we? So we can
ship all the data.
Gerv
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On 16 October 2013 23:10:39, Gregory Szorc wrote:
Possible crazy idea: do we actively track and send tree management
notices when package or binary size changes?
Not at present as far as I know, though Tim Taubert created something
temporary last year (no longer accessible, but perhaps worth f
Possible crazy idea: do we actively track and send tree management
notices when package or binary size changes? This seems like something
we'd want to cover under the "perf regressions get backed out or need
approval" policy. It may also help identify build system regressions and
compiler oddit
On 10/16/2013 9:39 AM, Gervase Markham wrote:
On 15/10/13 17:06, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
You have given on-disk footprint values, but surely download size values
are the important ones for the issue you are raising? After all, some of
this data may be very compressible, and some may not.
Correc
On 10/16/13 6:39 AM, Gervase Markham wrote:
You have given on-disk footprint values, but surely download size values
are the important ones for the issue you are raising? After all, some of
this data may be very compressible, and some may not.
Can we repackage the ICU data so we can compress it
On 10/16/2013 02:10 PM, Axel Hecht wrote:
> I wonder how far we can get by doing something along the lines we use for
> webfonts, starting to do the best we can with the data we already have, and
> improve once the perfect data is local.
Having the Intl.Foo algorithms returning different data ov
On 10/15/2013 07:18 PM, Brian Smith wrote:
> My (naive) understanding is that the Windows has its own API that does
> what ICU does. I believe that Internet Explorer 11 is an existence
> proof of that. If we used the Windows API on Windows, maybe we could
> avoid building ICU altogether on Windows.
On 10/16/2013 12:45 AM, Karl Tomlinson wrote:
> When sync I/O is performed to read in-binary-object data, how is
> that better?
>
> Just readahead?
Readahead, it being part of the binary/libxul/whatever so already one coherent
file to load, etc. I'm not aware that you can reasonably predict adj
On 10/16/13 3:50 PM, Gervase Markham wrote:
On 16/10/13 14:47, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
The API is synchronous so that seems like a bad idea.
As in, it'll cause the tab to freeze (one time only, when a new language
is called for) while the file is downloading? OK, that's bad, but so is
having
On 16/10/13 14:47, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
> The API is synchronous so that seems like a bad idea.
As in, it'll cause the tab to freeze (one time only, when a new language
is called for) while the file is downloading? OK, that's bad, but so is
having Firefox be a lot bigger...
Perhaps, as Brian
On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Gervase Markham wrote:
> I wonder if we could do this as a webservice? That is, when the browser
> is asked to render a timezone string or a currency string in a
> particular language, it goes and grabs all the data for that language.
> We could therefore have full
On 15/10/13 17:06, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
> With the landing of bug 853301, we are now shipping ICU in desktop
> Firefox builds. This costs us about 10% in both download and on-disk
> footprint: see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=853301#c2.
> After a discussion with Waldo, I'm going
Jumping in late, so top posting.
I think being able to load language data dynamically is a good idea. I
don't see a reason why this should be tied in to a language pack,
though. The other way around is a different question. i.e.
language data doesn't include UI localization
UI localization sh
On 10/15/13 2:41 PM, Chris Peterson wrote:
> On 10/15/13 12:28 PM, Brian Smith wrote:
>> I have no idea how to install a langpack. Presumably it is something
>> that is done through AMO. I am skeptical that this is easy enough to
>> make it acceptable to push this task off to the user. we should at
Jeff Walden writes:
> On 10/15/2013 06:06 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
>
> That means sync I/O on the main thread, and not well-optimized because it
> won't be part of the binary. Just to note.
When sync I/O is performed to read in-binary-object data, how is
that better?
Just readahead?
Wouldn'
On 10/15/13 12:28 PM, Brian Smith wrote:
I have no idea how to install a langpack. Presumably it is something
that is done through AMO. I am skeptical that this is easy enough to
make it acceptable to push this task off to the user. we should at
least automate it for them. If this data is too lar
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Benjamin Smedberg
> wrote:
>> On 10/15/2013 1:18 PM, Brian Smith wrote:
>>> My understanding is that web content should not be able to tell which
>>> locale the browser is configured to use, for privacy
On 10/15/2013 1:50 PM, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
As far as JavaScript API features go, I don't think we should vary our
offering by locale. E.g. for Firefox OS we want changing locale to
just work and not require a new version of Firefox OS. The same goes
for a computer in a hotel or hostel or s
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Benjamin Smedberg
wrote:
> On 10/15/2013 1:18 PM, Brian Smith wrote:
>> My understanding is that web content should not be able to tell which
>> locale the browser is configured to use, for privacy (fingerprinting)
>> reasons.
>
> I haven't heard this rule before.
On 10/15/2013 1:18 PM, Brian Smith wrote:
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Benjamin Smedberg
wrote:
Do we need this data for any language other than the language Firefox ships
in? Can we just include the relevant language data in each localized build
of Firefox, and allow users to get other lan
On 10/15/2013 06:06 PM, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
> Do we need this data for any language other than the language Firefox ships
> in? Can we just include the relevant language data in each localized build of
> Firefox, and allow users to get other language data via downloadable language
> packs,
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Benjamin Smedberg
wrote:
> Do we need this data for any language other than the language Firefox ships
> in? Can we just include the relevant language data in each localized build
> of Firefox, and allow users to get other language data via downloadable
> language
On 15/10/2013 17:06, Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
I'm going to post some details here about
how much this costs in terms of disk footprint, to discuss whether there
are things we can remove from this footprint, and whether the footprint
is actually worth the cost.
As a heads up, I'm currently inten
With the landing of bug 853301, we are now shipping ICU in desktop
Firefox builds. This costs us about 10% in both download and on-disk
footprint: see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=853301#c2.
After a discussion with Waldo, I'm going to post some details here about
how much this c
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