Re: [VOTE] FLIP-523 - Handle TLS Certificate Renewal

+1 (binding) On Thu, Jul 3, 2025 at 3:13 AM Gyula Fóra wrote: > +1 (binding) > > On Wed, Jul 2, 2025 at 6:02 AM Yuepeng Pan wrote: > > > +1 (non-binding) > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > Yuepeng Pan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 2025-07-02 11:23:18, "wj wang" wrote: > > >+1(non-bindi

Re: [VOTE] FLIP-522: Add generalized type information to SQL state connector

+1 (binding) On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 3:32 AM Zakelly Lan wrote: > +1 (binding) > > > Best, > Zakelly > > On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 6:17 PM Márton Balassi > wrote: > > > +1 (binding) > > > > On Mon, Apr 21, 2025 at 9:27 AM Gabor Somogyi > > > wrote: > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I'd like to start

Re: [VOTE] FLIP-514: Custom Evaluator plugin for Flink Autoscaler

+1 (binding) On Fri, Apr 11, 2025 at 12:31 AM Maximilian Michels wrote: > +1 (binding) > > Cheers, > Max > > On Mon, Apr 7, 2025 at 9:49 AM Rui Fan <1996fan...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > +1(binding) > > > > Best, > > Rui > > > > On Mon, Apr 7, 2025 at 3:25 PM Gyula Fóra wrote: > > > > > +1 (bind

[RESULT][VOTE] FLIP-515: Dynamic Kafka Sink

Hi devs, The vote[1] on FLIP-515[2] concluded with the following results: Approving(+1) votes: Gyula Fora (binding) Gabor Somogyi (binding) Maximilian Michels (binding) Alexander Fedulov (binding) Thomas Weise (binding) There were no disproving(-1) votes. I'm happy to announce that FLIP-515

Re: [VOTE] FLIP-515: Dynamic Kafka Sink

:26, Maximilian Michels wrote: > > > >> +1 (binding) > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Max > >> > >> On Thu, Apr 3, 2025 at 2:04 PM Gabor Somogyi > > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> +1 (binding) > >>&g

Re: [DISCUSS] FLIP-515: Dynamic Kafka Sink

ion) to avoid subsequent unrecoverable > failures. > > > Őrhidi Mátyás 于2025年4月6日周日 04:11写道： > > > 1. Yes, we can add Table API support in the future > > 2. The failover is coordinated by MDS itself > > 3. State is there to support situations where MDS is not a

Re: [DISCUSS] FLIP-515: Dynamic Kafka Sink

> Kafka MetaData Service has not completed initialization or we cannot > directly use the latest information obtained from Kafka MetaData Service? > > > > > > > > > > Őrhidi Mátyás 于2025年3月14日周五 05:04写道： > > > Hi devs, > > > > I'd like to s

[VOTE] FLIP-515: Dynamic Kafka Sink

Hi devs, I would like to start the vote for FLIP-515: Dynamic Kafka Sink [1] This FLIP was discussed in this thread [2]. The vote will be open for at least 72 hours unless there is an objection or insufficient votes. [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP-515:+Dynamic+Kafka+

Re: [DISCUSS] FLIP-515: Dynamic Kafka Sink

e Flink job" work? > > Also nit: the test plan contains copy&paste errors. > > Best, > > Arvid > > On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 10:04 PM Őrhidi Mátyás > wrote: > > > > Hi devs, > > > > I'd like to start a discussion on FLIP-515: Dyna

Re: [VOTE] FLIP-503: Blue/Green Deployments for Flink on Kubernetes: Phase 1 (basic)

+1 (binding) On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 12:22 AM Gyula Fóra wrote: > +1 (binding) > > And a gentle reminder to please vote :) > > Cheers, > Gyula > > On Tue, Mar 11, 2025 at 3:02 PM Gyula Fóra wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > I would like to start the vote for FLIP-503: Blue/Green Deployments for > >

[DISCUSS] FLIP-515: Dynamic Kafka Sink

Hi devs, I'd like to start a discussion on FLIP-515: Dynamic Kafka Sink [1]. This is an addition to the existing Dynamic Kafka Source [2] to make the functionality complete. Feel free to share your thoughts and suggestions to make this feature better. + Mason Chen Thanks, Matyas [1] https://cw

[ANNOUNCE] Apache Flink Kubernetes Operator 1.10.0 released

The Apache Flink community is very happy to announce the release of Apache Flink Kubernetes Operator 1.10.0 The Flink Kubernetes Operator allows users to manage their Apache Flink applications and their lifecycle through native k8s tooling like kubectl. Please check out the release blog post for

[RESULT] [VOTE] Apache Flink Kubernetes Operator Release 1.10.0, release candidate #1

I'm happy to announce that we have unanimously approved this release. There are 8 approving votes, 3 of which are binding: Rui Fan (binding) Márton Balassi (binding) Maximilian Michels (binding) Sam Barker (non-binding) Gabor Somogyi (non-binding) Tom Cooper (non-binding) Yuepeng Pan (non-bindin

[VOTE] Apache Flink Kubernetes Operator Release 1.10.0, release candidate #1

Hi everyone, Please review and vote on the release candidate #1 for the version 1.10.0 of Apache Flink Kubernetes Operator, as follows: [ ] +1, Approve the release [ ] -1, Do not approve the release (please provide specific comments) **Release Overview** As an overview, the release consists of t

Re: Flink Kubernetes Operator 1.10.0 release planning

Hi All! We chatted with Gyula offline and we think we are pretty much ready to cut the release branch and prepare the first RC on Monday (October 14). Let us know if there are any outstanding PRs that need to be merged before the release cut. Cheers, Matyas On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 7:20 AM Őrhidi

Re: Flink Kubernetes Operator 1.10.0 release planning

Hi All, Thanks ,Gyula. I'm happy to volunteer as the release manager for this release. Cheers, Matyas On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 3:09 AM Gyula Fóra wrote: > Hi All! > > I would like to kick off the discussion / release process for the Flink > Kubernetes Operator 1.10.0 release. > > The last, 1.9.0

Re: [VOTE] FLIP-474: Store operator name and UID in state metadata

+1 Cheers, Matyas On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 6:49 AM Gyula Fóra wrote: > +1 > > Gyula > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 3:47 PM Ferenc Csaky > wrote: > > > +1 (binding) > > > > Thanks G, and Zakelly for the productive conversation and the > > polished/added details. > > > > Best, > > Ferenc > > > > > >

Re: [DISCUSS] FLIP-460: Display source/sink I/O metrics on Flink Web UI

+1 on this. Thank you, Zhanghao! Cheers, Matyas On Fri, Jul 12, 2024 at 5:58 PM Becket Qin wrote: > Thanks for the proposal, Zhanghao. > > +1 on the proposal. It makes a lot of sense. > > Thanks, > > Jiangjie (Becket) Qin > > > On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 7:43 PM Zhanghao Chen > wrote: > > > Hi al

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Apache Flink Kubernetes Operator 1.9.0 released

Thank you, Gyula! 🥳 Cheers On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 8:00 AM Gyula Fóra wrote: > The Apache Flink community is very happy to announce the release of Apache > Flink Kubernetes Operator 1.9.0. > > The Flink Kubernetes Operator allows users to manage their Apache Flink > applications and their lifecycl

Re: [VOTE] FLIP-464: Merge "flink run" and "flink run-application"

Sounds reasonable, +1 Cheers, Matyas On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 8:54 AM Mate Czagany wrote: > Hi, > > Thank you for driving this Ferenc, > +1 (non-binding) > > Regards, > Mate > > Ferenc Csaky ezt írta (időpont: 2024. jún. > 12., Sze, 17:23): > > > Hello devs, > > > > I would like to start a vot

Re: [DISCUSS] FLIP-446: Kubernetes Operator State Snapshot CRD

+1 Looking forward to it On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 8:56 AM Mate Czagany wrote: > Thank you Gyula! > > I think that is a great idea. I have updated the Google doc to only have 1 > new configuration option of boolean type, which can be used to signal the > Operator to use the old mode. > > Also desc

Re: [VOTE] FLIP-439: Externalize Kudu Connector from Bahir

+1 (binding) On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 8:37 AM Gabor Somogyi wrote: > +1 (binding) > > G > > > On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 3:59 PM Gyula Fóra wrote: > > > +1 (binding) > > > > Thanks! > > Gyula > > > > On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 3:36 PM Mate Czagany wrote: > > > > > +1 (non-binding) > > > > > > Thank y

Re: [VOTE] FLIP-401: REST API JSON response deserialization unknown field tolerance

+1 Matyas On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 10:26 PM Gyula Fóra wrote: > +1 > > Gyula > > On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 1:26 PM Gabor Somogyi > wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > I'd like to start a vote on FLIP-401: REST API JSON response > > deserialization unknown field tolerance [1] which has been discussed in >

Re: [VOTE] FLIP-378: Support Avro timestamp with local timezone

+1(binding) Thanks, Matyas On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 2:11 AM Jing Ge wrote: > +1(binding) > Thanks! > > Best regards, > Jing > > On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 8:46 AM Jark Wu wrote: > > > +1 (binding) > > > > Best, > > Jark > > > > On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 at 12:41, Leonard Xu wrote: > > > > > +1(binding)

Re: [DISCUSS] Java Record support

+1 This would be great On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 7:04 AM Gyula Fóra wrote: > Hi All! > > Flink 1.18 contains experimental Java 17 support but it misses out on Java > records which can be one of the nice benefits of actually using newer java > versions. > > There is already a Jira to track this feat

PyFlink logging

Hey folks, I'm struggling to find in the code where we set/override the logging configuration? logging.basicConfig(level=logging.INFO) logging.info("I'm printed") env = StreamExecutionEnvironment.get_execution_environment() logging.info("I'm not") Can you give me some pointers? Thanks, Matyas

Re: [DISSCUSS] Kubernetes Operator Flink Version Support Policy

+1 On Tue, Sep 5, 2023 at 8:03 AM Thomas Weise wrote: > +1, thanks for the proposal > > On Tue, Sep 5, 2023 at 8:13 AM Gyula Fóra wrote: > > > Hi All! > > > > @Maximilian Michels has raised the question of Flink > > version support in the operator before the last release. I would like to > > o

Re: Kubernetes Operator 1.5.0 release planning

+1 SGTM. Cheers, Matyas On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 11:43 AM Hao t Chang wrote: > Agree. I will help. > >

Re: Proposal to add support for Kafka Headers to KafkaRecordSerializationSchemaWrapper

Hi Alex, This is a reasonable request IMO. I've recently bumped into this topic myself. This could be handy for supporting schema registries in Kafka to Kafka scenarios for example. Looking forward to your proposal. Cheers, Matyas On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 7:08 AM Alex Gout wrote: > Hi all, > >

Re: [DISCUSS] Release Kubernetes Operator 1.3.1

Hi Gyula, Sounds good! Thanks for volunteering. I'll review [FLINK-30406] tomorrow. Best, Matyas On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 1:14 PM Gyula Fóra wrote: > Hi Devs! > > It's been only a few weeks since the 1.3.0 release but we have identified > and fixed a few critical issues that are currently affe

[ANNOUNCE] Apache Flink Kubernetes Operator 1.3.0 released

The Apache Flink community is very happy to announce the release of Apache Flink Kubernetes Operator 1.3.0. Release highlights: - Upgrade to Fabric8 6.x.x and JOSDK 4.x.x - Restart unhealthy Flink clusters - Contribute the Flink Kubernetes Operator to OperatorHub - Publish flink-kuber

[RESULT] [VOTE] Apache Flink Kubernetes Operator Release 1.3.0, release candidate #1

Hi Devs! I'm happy to announce that we have unanimously approved this release. There are 6 approving votes, 3 of which are binding: - Marton Balassi (binding) - Max Michels (binding) - Gyula Fora (binding) - Jim Busche (non-binding) - Ted Chang (non-binding)

[VOTE] Apache Flink Kubernetes Operator Release 1.3.0, release candidate #1

Hi everyone, Please review and vote on the release candidate #1 for the version 1.3.0 of Apache Flink Kubernetes Operator, as follows: [ ] +1, Approve the release [ ] -1, Do not approve the release (please provide specific comments) **Release Overview** As an overview, the release consists of the f

Re: [DISCUSS] OLM Bundles for Flink Kubernetes Operator

Hi folks, I'm going to shepherd the upcoming 1.3.0 release. I'll also try to find some time to review the OLM integration proposal, and see how much extra effort it would be. Best, Matyas On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 5:45 PM Yang Wang wrote: > Improving the visibility of Flink Kubernetes Operator i

Re: Kubernetes Operator 1.3.0 release

reeze > to the end of this week (Dec 2) and release cut to mid next week (Dec 7) to > give us some flexibility in merging the currently pending PRs. > > Thanks, > Gyula > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2022 at 6:44 AM Őrhidi Mátyás > wrote: > >> Hi Devs, >> >>

Kubernetes Operator 1.3.0 release

Hi Devs, Our planned milestones for the upcoming operator 1.3.0 release are the following: Feature Freeze: Nov 28 Release Cut:Dec 5 Release Date: Dec 12 There are a few JIRAs that still need to be addressed, but most of them are work in progress, so it seems we can most probably me

Re: [VOTE] FLIP-271: Autoscaling

+1 (binding) On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 11:46 AM Gyula Fóra wrote: > +1 (binding) > > Gyula > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 5:25 PM Maximilian Michels wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I'd like to start a vote for FLIP-271 [1] which we previously discussed > > on the dev mailing list [2]. > > > > I'm

Re: [ANNOUNCE] New Apache Flink Committer - Matyas Orhidi

Thanks folks, So proud and honored to be part of the pack! Cheers, Matyas On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 12:32 PM Danny Cranmer wrote: > Congrats Matyas! > > On Mon, 21 Nov 2022, 17:51 ramkrishna vasudevan, > wrote: > > > Congrats Matayas > > > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 10:06 PM Jim Busche wrote: >

Re: [DISCUSS] FLIP-272: Generalized delegation token support

ion.token.provider.{providerName}.renewal.time-ratio" > > for non-hadoop providers > > * This is an additional feature which justifies to separate Hadoop and > > non-hadoop providers on the API level > > > > Waiting on your opinion. > > > > G > > >

Re: [DISCUSS] FLIP-272: Generalized delegation token support

Hi Gabor, Thanks for driving this effort! A few thoughts on the topic: - Could you please add a few examples of the delegation token providers we expected to be added in the near future? Ideally these providers could be configured independently from each other. However the configuration defaults

Re: [DISCUSS] FLIP-271: Autoscaling

Thank you Max, Gyula! This is definitely an exciting one :) Cheers, Matyas On Fri, Nov 4, 2022 at 1:16 PM Gyula Fóra wrote: > Hi! > > Thank you for the proposal Max! It is great to see this highly desired > feature finally take shape. > > I think we have all the right building blocks to make t

Re: [VOTE] Apache Flink Kubernetes Operator Release 1.2.0, release candidate #2

+1 (non-binding) - Verified source distributions (except the licenses and maven artifacts) - Verified Helm chart and Docker image - Verified basic examples Everything seems okay to me. Cheers, Matyas On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 10:27 PM Gyula Fóra wrote: > +1 (binding) > > - Verified Helm repo wor

Re: Kubernetes Operator 1.2.0 release

Thanks Gyula! Sounds good! Happy to help as always. Cheers, Matyas On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 1:37 PM Gyula Fóra wrote: > Hi Devs! > > The originally planned (October 1) release date for 1.2.0 is fast > approaching and we are already slightly behind schedule. There are a couple > outstanding bug

Re: [DISCUSS] Stale PR action for flink and flink-kubernetes-operator repos

Hi Gabor, Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I'd be happy to see such automatism guarding our repos. We could start a trial period on the operator repo I guess until we have the confidence it's a good thing. Are you aware of this plugin being used at other ASF projects? Any pros/cons? Che

Re: [DISCUSS] Add new JobStatus fields to Flink Kubernetes Operator CRD

gt; > >> > > I discussed with Daren offline, and I agree with him that > >> > technically we > >> > > almost never need 2 API calls. > >> > > > >> > > I think it's fine to have a second API call once di

Re: [DISCUSS] Kubernetes Operator 1.1.0 release

Thanks Gyula, I'm happy to help with anything if needed. Best, Matyas On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 1:25 PM Gyula Fóra wrote: > Hi Devs! > > Based on the previously agreed release schedule for the operator > < > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Release+Schedule+and+Planning > > > th

Re: [DISCUSS] Add new JobStatus fields to Flink Kubernetes Operator CRD

Hi Daren, At the moment the Operator fetches the job state via https://nightlies.apache.org/flink/flink-docs-master/docs/ops/rest_api/#jobs-overview which contains the 'end-time' and 'duration' fields already. I feel calling the https://nightlies.apache.org/flink/flink-docs-master/docs/ops/rest_ap

Re: Python Job Support for the Kubernetes Operator

orrect? If this is the case, I think it should be reasonable to make it in > v1.2 for Python support. > > Regards, > Dian > > [1] > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Release+Schedule+and+Planning > > On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 2:10 PM Őrhidi Mátyás > wro

Re: Python Job Support for the Kubernetes Operator

Both sql and py support is requested frequently. I guess we should aim to support both in v1.2. Matyas On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 6:26 AM Gyula Fóra wrote: > Thank you for the info and help Dian :) > > Gyula > > On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 at 05:14, Yang Wang wrote: > > > Thanks Dian for the confirmation a

Re: [DISCUSS] Flink Kubernetes Operator release cadence proposal

ule that we can most likely keep. >>> > > If we want to be successful with the proposed schedule we have to >>> ensure >>> > > that each release has a relatively small scope of new features and we >>> > have >>> > > good tes

Re: [DISCUSS] Flink Kubernetes Operator release cadence proposal

t; > If we want to be successful with the proposed schedule we have to >> ensure >> > > that each release has a relatively small scope of new features and we >> > have >> > > good test coverage. >> > > >> > > In addition t

Re: [VOTE] Apache Flink Kubernetes Operator Release 1.0.1, release candidate #1

+1 - Verified hashes/signatures - Verified Helm chart, helm install - Ran a few example jobs Matyas On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 11:30 AM Gyula Fóra wrote: > +1 (binding) > > - Verified hashes/signatures, license headers for the release artifacts > - Verified Helm chart, helm install > - Ran a f

Re: [DISCUSS] Release Kubernetes operator 1.0.1

+1 for the patch release. Thanks Gyula! On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 5:35 PM Márton Balassi wrote: > Hi team, > > +1 for having a 1.0.1 for the Kubernetes Operator. > > On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 4:23 PM Gyula Fóra wrote: > > > Hi Devs! > > > > How do you feel about releasing the 1.0.1 patch release fo

[DISCUSS] Flink Kubernetes Operator release cadence proposal

Hi Devs, After the successful Kubernetes Operator 1.0.0 release, which is considered to be the first production grade one, it is probably a good time now to also agree on a predictable release cadence for the Operator too, similarly to the time-based release plan we have for the Flink core project

Re: [RESULT] [VOTE] Apache Flink Kubernetes Operator Release 1.0.0, release candidate #4

Great work, Yang! On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 6:09 PM Márton Balassi wrote: > Well done, team. :-) Thanks for managing the release, Yang. > > On Fri 3. Jun 2022 at 17:58, Yang Wang wrote: > > > I'm happy to announce that we have unanimously approved this release. > > > > There are 5 approving votes,

Re: JobManager High Availability

hing like "Flink Jobmanager failover", because > that's what it is. > > With standby Jobmanagers what you gain is a faster failover, because a new > Jobmanager does not need to be started before restarting the Job. That's > all. > > Cheers, > &

JobManager High Availability

Hi Folks! I've been goofing around with the JobManager HA configs using multiple JM replicas (in the Flink Kubernetes Operator). It's working seemingly fine, however the job itself is being restarted when you kill the leader JM pod. Is this expected? Thanks, Matyas

Re: [ANNOUNCE] New Flink PMC member: Yang Wang

Congrats Yang! Well deserved! Best, Matyas On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 5:30 AM huweihua wrote: > Congratulations Yang! > > Best, > Weihua > >

Re: [DISCUSS] Bumping operator CRD version to v1alpha2

I prefer the 2nd option Gyula, shouldn't we target v1beta1 already? On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 8:47 AM Gyula Fóra wrote: > Hi all! > > With the preview release almost (hopefully today) officially out we need to > bump the CRD version of the deployment objects. > > As there will likely be a second pr

Re: [DISCUSS] Make Kubernetes Operator config "dynamic" and consider merging with flinkConfiguration

Thanks Gyula for bringing this topic up! Although the suggestion would indeed simplify the configuration handling I have some concerns about opening the operator configuration for end users in certain cases. In a multitenant scenario for example, how could we protect against one user messing up the

Re: [VOTE]FLIP-215: Introduce FlinkSessionJob CRD in the kubernetes operator

+1 (non-binding) nice addition to the operator Cheers, Matyas On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 12:10 PM Biao Geng wrote: > +1(non-binding) > Thanks for the work! > > Best, > Biao Geng > > Yang Wang 于2022年3月18日周五 19:01写道： > > > +1(binding) > > > > Thanks for your contribution. > > > > Best, > > Yang > >

Re: [DISCUSS] Manual savepoint triggering in flink-kubernetes-operator

? > Does > > it make one more difficult than the other? > > > > Cheers > > Gyula > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 1:52 PM Őrhidi Mátyás > > wrote: > > > > > Hi All! > > > > > > I'd like to st

[DISCUSS] Manual savepoint triggering in flink-kubernetes-operator

Hi All! I'd like to start a quick discussion about the way we allow users to trigger savepoints manually in the operator [FLINK-26181] . There are existing solutions already for this functionality in other operators, for example: - counter based <

Re: [DISCUSS] Flink Kubernetes Operator controller flow

It is worth looking at the controller code in the spotify operator too: https://github.com/spotify/flink-on-k8s-operator/blob/master/controllers/flinkcluster/flinkcluster_controller.go It is looping in the 'observer phase' until it reaches a stable state, then it performs the necessary changes. B

Re: [DISCUSS] FLIP-212: Introduce Flink Kubernetes Operator

Hi Peng, Thanks for your feedback. Regarding 1. and 3. scenarios, the podTemplate functionality in the operator could cover both. We also need to be careful about introducing proxy parameters in the CRD spec. The savepoint path is usually accompanied with a bunch of other configurations for exampl

Re: [DISCUSS] Flink Avro Cloudera Registry (FLINK-14577)

e some of the >> >> already available abstractions for writing avro deserialization schema >> >> based on a schema registry (have a look at >> RegistryDeserializationSchema >> >> and SchemaCoderProvider). There is also an opened PR for adding a >> >> similar se

[DISCUSS] Flink Avro Cloudera Registry (FLINK-14577)

Dear Flink Community! We have noticed a recent request for Hortonworks schema registry support ( FLINK-14577 ). We have an implementation for it already, and we would be happy to contribute it to Apache Flink. You can find the documentation below