The best way to install inkscape 1.0 on Debian stable

2021-03-05 Thread A_Man_Without_Clue
Hi all, What is the best way to install the latest version of the inkscape on Buster? Buster installs inkscape 0.9 and I still encounter lots of bugs with it. I would like to try the latest but what is the best way to install newest version? Download .deb file?

Re: The best way to install inkscape 1.0 on Debian stable

2021-03-05 Thread Sven Joachim
On 2021-03-05 17:02 +0900, A_Man_Without_Clue wrote: > What is the best way to install the latest version of the inkscape on > Buster? > > Buster installs inkscape 0.9 and I still encounter lots of bugs with it. > I would like to try the latest but what is the best way to install > newest version?

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems]

2021-03-05 Thread tomas
On Fri, Mar 05, 2021 at 01:33:14AM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > AIUI compilers have been studied so extensively that their production is > > largely automated. > > Oh, no. There are some parts we know how to automate, but by and large > it's all hand written code. :-) https://m.xkcd.com/224

Re: The best way to install inkscape 1.0 on Debian stable

2021-03-05 Thread Alex Mestiashvili
On 3/5/21 9:02 AM, A_Man_Without_Clue wrote: Hi all, What is the best way to install the latest version of the inkscape on Buster? Buster installs inkscape 0.9 and I still encounter lots of bugs with it. I would like to try the latest but what is the best way to install newest version? Download

Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system

2021-03-05 Thread Darac Marjal
On 04/03/2021 23:38, John Boxall wrote: > I have been trying for some time to setup a system that will share an > attached scanner over the network. I had hoped to use Buster as it is > still the stable instance of Debian. I have followed everything in [1] > but I could never get it to work. I the

l'actu internationale du 5/3: Hong-Kong et Chine

2021-03-05 Thread didier gaumet
HONG-KONG - Sur les 47 militants de Hong Kong incarcérés, 15 ont été libérés sous caution mais restent détenus dans l'attente d'un appel introduit par le ministère de la justice (traduc auto Google) https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=fr&u=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-c

Re: Deb10 installer can't install grub

2021-03-05 Thread Anssi Saari
Greg Wooledge writes: > to...@tuxteam.de (to...@tuxteam.de) wrote: >> > 1x 4TB, single drive, 3.7 TB, w=108MB/s , rw=50MB/s , r=204MB/s >> > 2x 4TB, mirror (raid1),3.7 TB, w=106MB/s , rw=50MB/s , r=488MB/s > >> Thanks. Real data :) >> >> The doubling in read throughput is s

Re: l'actu internationale du 5/3: Hong-Kong et Chine

2021-03-05 Thread didier gaumet
Please excuse my mistake, I have sent by error to the list a private message that was to be sent to a friend Again, my apologies.

systemd 248 in bullseye?

2021-03-05 Thread Stefan K
Hello, is there a chance that systemd 248 get in bullseye? Systemd248 allow to unlocking encrypted volumes via FIDO2, which is very usefull nowadays. best regards Stefan

Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system

2021-03-05 Thread David Pottage
On 2021-03-04 23:38, John Boxall wrote: I have been trying for some time to setup a system that will share an attached scanner over the network. I had hoped to use Buster as it is still the stable instance of Debian. I have followed everything in [1] but I could never get it to work. I then tried

Re: Deb10 installer can't install grub

2021-03-05 Thread Darac Marjal
On 05/03/2021 09:25, Anssi Saari wrote: > Greg Wooledge writes: > >> to...@tuxteam.de (to...@tuxteam.de) wrote: 1x 4TB, single drive, 3.7 TB, w=108MB/s , rw=50MB/s , r=204MB/s 2x 4TB, mirror (raid1),3.7 TB, w=106MB/s , rw=50MB/s , r=488MB/s >>> Thanks. Real data :)

Re: systemd 248 in bullseye?

2021-03-05 Thread didier gaumet
Hello from what I understand, Bulleye's version of Systemd is now frozen to 247: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2021/02/msg2.html

Re: systemd 248 in bullseye?

2021-03-05 Thread Stefan K
that is sad any other ideas how can I done that? (but I will create a new thread for that On Friday, March 5, 2021 10:55:36 AM CET didier gaumet wrote: > Hello > > from what I understand, Bulleye's version of Systemd is now frozen to 247: > https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2021/0

issue with systemd-sysv-generator (Package: systemd-sysv?)

2021-03-05 Thread Hans
Hi folks, I am running into a little issue. At every update I am spammed with the following messages from systemd (some lines as an example): Mär 05 10:43:09 protheus1 systemd-sysv-generator[37639]: SysV service '/etc/init.d/ restorecond' lacks a native systemd unit file. Automatical ly

Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system

2021-03-05 Thread Brian
On Thu 04 Mar 2021 at 18:38:09 -0500, John Boxall wrote: > I have been trying for some time to setup a system that will share an > attached scanner over the network. I had hoped to use Buster as it is still > the stable instance of Debian. I have followed everything in [1] but I could > never get

Re: Deb10 installer can't install grub

2021-03-05 Thread Andy Smith
Hello, On Fri, Mar 05, 2021 at 10:04:34AM +, Darac Marjal wrote: > So, if your file is small, then yes, you won't see any performance > benefit. But if your file is larger than a block, or if you want > to access more than one file at once, then RAID can read the > second block from a differen

Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems

2021-03-05 Thread Richard Owlett
On 03/04/2021 04:46 PM, David Christensen wrote: On 3/4/21 4:27 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: What I do now is make yet another attempt to convey my problem. My universe consists of:    1. myself.    2. a laptop onto which I wish to install Debian using a netinst.iso .    3. an Alcatel Linkzone so

Re: systemd 248 in bullseye?

2021-03-05 Thread Brian
On Fri 05 Mar 2021 at 11:28:03 +0100, Stefan K wrote: > that is sad > any other ideas how can I done that? (but I will create a new thread for that The systemd maintainers put packages in backports, so it looks likely there could be a bullseye one at some time. -- Brian.

Re: Deb10 installer can't install grub

2021-03-05 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Mi, 03 mar 21, 17:16:14, Felix Miata wrote: > Andrei POPESCU composed on 2021-03-03 17:50 (UTC+0200): > > > Felix Miata wrote: > > >> To start with, RAID1 is marginally slower than ordinary filesystems on > >> partitions. > > > This is true for some workloads, for others it can be significan

Re: The best way to install inkscape 1.0 on Debian stable

2021-03-05 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 05 March 2021 03:08:00 Alex Mestiashvili wrote: > On 3/5/21 9:02 AM, A_Man_Without_Clue wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > What is the best way to install the latest version of the inkscape > > on Buster? > > > > Buster installs inkscape 0.9 and I still encounter lots of bugs with > > it. I woul

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: Trusting trust [was: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems]

2021-03-05 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 05 March 2021 03:14:51 to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Fri, Mar 05, 2021 at 01:33:14AM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > > AIUI compilers have been studied so extensively that their > > > production is largely automated. > > > > Oh, no. There are some parts we know how to automate, but by a

Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system

2021-03-05 Thread John Boxall
On 2021-03-05 3:38 a.m., Darac Marjal wrote: First of all, you might need to give us some hint as to how it doesn't work? Agreed...bad form...no excuse. "scanimage -L" on the client did not show the scanner whereas on the server it did. I tried from both root and non-root users. "doesn't w

Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system

2021-03-05 Thread John Boxall
On 2021-03-05 4:50 a.m., David Pottage wrote: David, Thank you for the detailed instructions. I hope this solves your problem. I struggled with that exact issue a couple of months ago, and I know how frustrating it can be. It should. I will try it later today. The frustration was amplified

cannot boot into Debian after transferring hard drive to another desktop computer

2021-03-05 Thread kaye n
Hello Friends! Desktop Computer One has a hard drive that is multiboot: Windows 7, Debian, and another linux operating system which I will call linux-x. It seems that the MOTHERBOARD of Desktop Computer One has finally given out (wild guess only, as even a linux live USB can't function properly)

Re: cannot boot into Debian after transferring hard drive to another desktop computer

2021-03-05 Thread kaye n
UPDATE: I also cannot boot into Windows 7. I get the start normally or safe mode window. On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 11:12 PM kaye n wrote: > Hello Friends! > > Desktop Computer One has a hard drive that is multiboot: Windows 7, > Debian, and another linux operating system which I will call linux-

Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system

2021-03-05 Thread John Boxall
On 2021-03-05 6:05 a.m., Brian wrote: [1} https://wiki.debian.org/SaneOverNetwork#Sharing_a_USB_Connected_Scanner:_the_Basics The note on Bug #918358 towards the end of https://wiki.debian.org/Scanner#perms could help with a solution. Once I looked at the bug report it most certainly

Re: The best way to install inkscape 1.0 on Debian stable

2021-03-05 Thread Greg Wooledge
Gene Heskett (ghesk...@shentel.net) wrote: > On Friday 05 March 2021 03:08:00 Alex Mestiashvili wrote: > > They provide appimage, just download and run it. > > Which works, but I just now looked at .profile, and found that when I > looked at my $PATH, AppImage was not being added. I had several m

Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question]

2021-03-05 Thread David Wright
On Thu 04 Mar 2021 at 15:47:37 (-0500), rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > On Thursday, March 04, 2021 12:40:00 PM David Wright wrote: > > On Wed 03 Mar 2021 at 10:36:42 (-0500), rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Tuesday, March 02, 2021 10:01:09 PM David Wright wrote: > > Brian wrote: '"+1" for what? Adv

Re: Sharing a scanner from a Buster system

2021-03-05 Thread Brian
On Fri 05 Mar 2021 at 10:28:27 -0500, John Boxall wrote: > On 2021-03-05 6:05 a.m., Brian wrote: > > > > [1} > > > https://wiki.debian.org/SaneOverNetwork#Sharing_a_USB_Connected_Scanner:_the_Basics > > > > The note on Bug #918358 towards the end of > > > >https://wiki.debian.org/Scanner#p

user unit file

2021-03-05 Thread Jim Popovitch
Please be gentle. Searching for this is proving futile. How do I enable systemd user (--user) unit files that are maintained in a user's home directory at /home/bob/.config/systemd/user/*.service ? tia, -Jim P.

Re: user unit file

2021-03-05 Thread Sven Hartge
Jim Popovitch wrote: > Please be gentle. Searching for this is proving futile. > How do I enable systemd user (--user) unit files that are maintained in > a user's home directory at /home/bob/.config/systemd/user/*.service ? What do you mean with "enable"? "Enable" as in "enable support"? Then

Re: user unit file

2021-03-05 Thread Jim Popovitch
On Fri, 2021-03-05 at 18:36 +0100, Sven Hartge wrote: > Jim Popovitch wrote: > > Please be gentle. Searching for this is proving futile. > > How do I enable systemd user (--user) unit files that are maintained in > > a user's home directory at /home/bob/.config/systemd/user/*.service ? > > What

Re: user unit file

2021-03-05 Thread Greg Wooledge
Jim Popovitch (j...@k4vqc.com) wrote: > Right now I can't get this to work: > > ~$ systemctl --user enable Test.service > Failed to connect to bus: No such file or directory After Googling this error, I suspect that you're either operating in an environment where the XDG variables are not being s

Re: user unit file

2021-03-05 Thread Jim Popovitch
On Fri, 2021-03-05 at 13:11 -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote: > Jim Popovitch (j...@k4vqc.com) wrote: > > Right now I can't get this to work: > > > > ~$ systemctl --user enable Test.service > > Failed to connect to bus: No such file or directory > > After Googling this error, I suspect that you're eith

Re: user unit file

2021-03-05 Thread Greg Wooledge
Jim Popovitch (j...@k4vqc.com) wrote: > It's a VPS server, I ssh'ed in. No GUI, minimal install to test systemd > user unit files. Apparently you need to configure sshd to use PAM. > bob@sbc:~$ ps -ef|grep dbus > message+ 520 1 0 13:08 ?00:00:00 /usr/bin/dbus-daemon > --syste

Re: user unit file

2021-03-05 Thread Jim Popovitch
On Fri, 2021-03-05 at 13:35 -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote: > Jim Popovitch (j...@k4vqc.com) wrote: > > It's a VPS server, I ssh'ed in. No GUI, minimal install to test systemd > > user unit files. > > Apparently you need to configure sshd to use PAM. > > > bob@sbc:~$ ps -ef|grep dbus > > message+

Re: user unit file

2021-03-05 Thread Greg Wooledge
Jim Popovitch (j...@k4vqc.com) wrote: > Ugh. So the solution seems to be to add UsePAM to sshd just to make > systemd work. Not sure that I can get that approved, but I will see. This sounds like an X-Y problem. What are you actually trying to do?

Re: user unit file

2021-03-05 Thread Jim Popovitch
On Fri, 2021-03-05 at 14:21 -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote: > Jim Popovitch (j...@k4vqc.com) wrote: > > Ugh. So the solution seems to be to add UsePAM to sshd just to make > > systemd work. Not sure that I can get that approved, but I will see. > > This sounds like an X-Y problem. What are you actua

Bullseye: Redshift and Wayland

2021-03-05 Thread Charles Curley
Redshift does not appear able to work with Wayland on Bullseye. Is there a workaround or fix? Trying location provider `geoclue2'... error: XDG_RUNTIME_DIR not set in the environment. Could not connect to wayland display, exiting. Failed to start adjustment method wayland. Trying next method... No

Re: user unit file

2021-03-05 Thread Greg Wooledge
Jim Popovitch (j...@k4vqc.com) wrote: > On Fri, 2021-03-05 at 14:21 -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > Jim Popovitch (j...@k4vqc.com) wrote: > > > Ugh. So the solution seems to be to add UsePAM to sshd just to make > > > systemd work. Not sure that I can get that approved, but I will see. > > > > Th

Re: user unit file

2021-03-05 Thread Jim Popovitch
On Fri, 2021-03-05 at 14:16 -0500, Jim Popovitch wrote: > On Fri, 2021-03-05 at 13:35 -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > Jim Popovitch (j...@k4vqc.com) wrote: > > > It's a VPS server, I ssh'ed in. No GUI, minimal install to test systemd > > > user unit files. > > > > Apparently you need to configure

Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question]

2021-03-05 Thread rhkramer
On Friday, March 05, 2021 11:56:24 AM David Wright wrote: > On Thu 04 Mar 2021 at 15:47:37 (-0500), rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > If a device is sold on a separate card, it's not necessarily > enough to know the model number of the card. Many "identical" > models are sold with various different ch

Re: user unit file

2021-03-05 Thread Jim Popovitch
On Fri, 2021-03-05 at 14:29 -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote: > Jim Popovitch (j...@k4vqc.com) wrote: > > On Fri, 2021-03-05 at 14:21 -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > Jim Popovitch (j...@k4vqc.com) wrote: > > > > Ugh. So the solution seems to be to add UsePAM to sshd just to make > > > > systemd work.

Re: Bullseye: Redshift and Wayland

2021-03-05 Thread Greg Wooledge
Charles Curley (charlescur...@charlescurley.com) wrote: > Redshift does not appear able to work with Wayland on Bullseye. Is there > a workaround or fix? > > Trying location provider `geoclue2'... > error: XDG_RUNTIME_DIR not set in the environment. > Could not connect to wayland display, exiting.

Re: The best way to install inkscape 1.0 on Debian stable

2021-03-05 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 05 March 2021 10:52:11 Greg Wooledge wrote: > Gene Heskett (ghesk...@shentel.net) wrote: > > On Friday 05 March 2021 03:08:00 Alex Mestiashvili wrote: > > > They provide appimage, just download and run it. > > > > Which works, but I just now looked at .profile, and found that when > > I

Re: cannot boot into Debian after transferring hard drive to another desktop computer

2021-03-05 Thread Charles Curley
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 23:12:35 +0800 kaye n wrote: > Desktop Computer One has a hard drive that is multiboot: Windows 7, > Debian, and another linux operating system which I will call linux-x. > > It seems that the MOTHERBOARD of Desktop Computer One has finally > given out (wild guess only, as ev

Re: Bullseye: Redshift and Wayland

2021-03-05 Thread Charles Curley
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 14:32:38 -0500 Greg Wooledge wrote: > > Trying location provider `geoclue2'... > > error: XDG_RUNTIME_DIR not set in the environment. > > Could not connect to wayland display, exiting. > > What command did you run? How did you try to run it? Line wrapping ahead root@o

Re: cannot boot into Debian after transferring hard drive to another desktop computer

2021-03-05 Thread Joe
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 23:25:30 +0800 kaye n wrote: > UPDATE: > I also cannot boot into Windows 7. I get the start normally or safe > mode window. > That's deliberate. You'll probably have to reactivate Windows, possibly by phone. -- Joe

Re: cannot boot into Debian after transferring hard drive to another desktop computer

2021-03-05 Thread IL Ka
Hi. A couple of questions. * Do you use EFI or MBR/BIOS mode? * You have a SATA disk, right? Does your controller set to the AHCI mode? Was it set to AHCI in the previous motherboard? On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 6:13 PM kaye n wrote: > Hello Friends! > > Desktop Computer One has a hard drive that

Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems

2021-03-05 Thread David Christensen
On 3/5/21 4:09 AM, Richard Owlett wrote: On 03/04/2021 04:46 PM, David Christensen wrote: 2. I _actively_ abhor activating *any* WiFi device. [long OT story] My system currently has [from image of DVD1]:   1. Debian 10.0 with minimum default configuration of MATE. That is a security ris

Re: user unit file

2021-03-05 Thread Andrei POPESCU
On Vi, 05 mar 21, 12:53:24, Jim Popovitch wrote: > > Right now I can't get this to work: > > ~$ systemctl --user enable Test.service > Failed to connect to bus: No such file or directory To save you some head banging after you fix this... > ~$ cat ~/.config/systemd/user/Test.service > [Unit] >

Re: cannot boot into Debian after transferring hard drive to another desktop computer

2021-03-05 Thread Andrew M.A. Cater
On Fri, Mar 05, 2021 at 11:12:35PM +0800, kaye n wrote: > Hello Friends! > > Desktop Computer One has a hard drive that is multiboot: Windows 7, > Debian, and another linux operating system which I will call linux-x. > > It seems that the MOTHERBOARD of Desktop Computer One has finally given out

Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems

2021-03-05 Thread Richard Owlett
Please PLEASE *PLEASE* read what I *ACTUALLY* wrote !!! *BEFORE* replying to what you WISH I had written !

Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems

2021-03-05 Thread Joe
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 15:12:50 -0600 Richard Owlett wrote: > Please PLEASE *PLEASE* read what I *ACTUALLY* wrote > !!! *BEFORE* replying to what you WISH I had written ! > > In the beginning, the problem was inability to write an .iso to a USB stick or to use Google. Since then, things seem t

Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems

2021-03-05 Thread Richard Owlett
On 03/05/2021 03:47 PM, Joe wrote: On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 15:12:50 -0600 Richard Owlett wrote: Please PLEASE *PLEASE* read what I *ACTUALLY* wrote !!! *BEFORE* replying to what you WISH I had written ! In the beginning, the problem was inability to write an .iso to a USB stick or to use Go

Re: cannot boot into Debian after transferring hard drive to another desktop computer

2021-03-05 Thread Felix Miata
kaye n composed on 2021-03-05 23:12 (UTC+0800): > It seems that the MOTHERBOARD of Desktop Computer One has finally given out > (wild guess only > High probability that what went bad was the power supply. High probably

Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems

2021-03-05 Thread Charles Curley
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 21:47:25 + Joe wrote: > In the beginning, the problem was inability to write an .iso to a USB > stick or to use Google. Since then, things seem to have evolved. There > are too many posts in this thread to read each one of yours to see > what is currently the problem, and y

Re: user unit file

2021-03-05 Thread Jim Popovitch
On Fri, 2021-03-05 at 22:45 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Vi, 05 mar 21, 12:53:24, Jim Popovitch wrote: > > Right now I can't get this to work: > > > > ~$ systemctl --user enable Test.service > > Failed to connect to bus: No such file or directory > > To save you some head banging after you f

Re: The best way to install inkscape 1.0 on Debian stable

2021-03-05 Thread A_Man_Without_Clue
On 3/5/21 10:58 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Friday 05 March 2021 03:08:00 Alex Mestiashvili wrote: > >> On 3/5/21 9:02 AM, A_Man_Without_Clue wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> What is the best way to install the latest version of the inkscape >>> on Buster? >>> >>> Buster installs inkscape 0.9 and I

Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems

2021-03-05 Thread David Wright
On Mon 01 Feb 2021 at 06:46:40 (-0600), Richard Owlett wrote: > I have just installed Debian 10.7 to my Lenovo T510 Thinkpad having > copied debian-10.7.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso to a flash drive [the machine is > intentionally isolated from the internet]. So you have a 10.7 amd64 DVD available. On Wed 0

Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question]

2021-03-05 Thread David Wright
On Fri 05 Mar 2021 at 14:30:30 (-0500), rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > On Friday, March 05, 2021 11:56:24 AM David Wright wrote: > > On Thu 04 Mar 2021 at 15:47:37 (-0500), rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > If a device is sold on a separate card, it's not necessarily > > enough to know the model

Re: Re: The best way to install inkscape 1.0 on Debian stable

2021-03-05 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 05 March 2021 20:43:10 A_Man_Without_Clue wrote: > On 3/5/21 10:58 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Friday 05 March 2021 03:08:00 Alex Mestiashvili wrote: > >> On 3/5/21 9:02 AM, A_Man_Without_Clue wrote: > >>> Hi all, > >>> > >>> What is the best way to install the latest version of the i

Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question]

2021-03-05 Thread rhkramer
On Friday, March 05, 2021 08:44:26 PM David Wright wrote: > On Fri 05 Mar 2021 at 14:30:30 (-0500), rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Friday, March 05, 2021 11:56:24 AM David Wright wrote: > > > On Thu 04 Mar 2021 at 15:47:37 (-0500), rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > If a device is sold on

Re: cannot boot into Debian after transferring hard drive to another desktop computer

2021-03-05 Thread David Christensen
On 3/5/21 7:12 AM, kaye n wrote: Hello Friends! Desktop Computer One has a hard drive that is multiboot: Windows 7, Debian, and another linux operating system which I will call linux-x. It seems that the MOTHERBOARD of Desktop Computer One has finally given out (wild guess only, as even a linu

Re: Bullseye: Redshift and Wayland

2021-03-05 Thread Teemu Likonen
* 2021-03-05 12:28:53-0700, Charles Curley wrote: > Redshift does not appear able to work with Wayland on Bullseye. Is there > a workaround or fix? Redshift is made for X Window System (on Linux): it uses X's features to set color temperature. Here is a quote from Redshift's FAQ: The Waylan