On Mon, 3 Dec 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Some of you obviously "get it." My hats off to you!
I've done tech support for a few years for various organisations.
During my time there, I learned that Mr Maziuk has more than the right
idea. We don't tolerate people who don't understand the simpl
Some of you obviously "get it." My hats off to
you!Others, sadly, do not:
-Original
Message-From: Dimitri Maziuk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 17:53To:
debian-user@lists.debian.orgSubject: Re: Thoughts on RTFMGood. I
sincerely hope it'll stay ther
On Sat, 2001-12-01 at 07:34, Tom Allison wrote:
> My point is this:
> If all you ever want is the step by step instructions, that is all you
> will ever know.
This is more or less the key for me to understanding why other people
can't be bothered to read the manual. If it's not in a step by ste
* Peter Good <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2001.11.30 23:14:24+1000]:
> Hence why i'm subscribed to this list hehehehe, it's amazing the things i've
> picked up over the past year, defintely helped my newbie status.
also a very good and very valid point.
now, peter, it's about time you start answering so
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I really don't want to single out Viktor Rosenfeld
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
> but his opinion is the pearl seed for a particular observation.
> Simultaneously, it represents the "rational" voice of most people
> who try to carry the stone, and is astonishingly wide of the
> No-one, on any
> list, is going to attempt to answer a question like: "I just bought
> a CD and my computer won't read it. What's wrong?"
Um, I see that particular question on and off on different lists.
So you better think again sir.
> Tell me, [list], how would you phrase such a question so t
Alan Shutko wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> > For example, I just purchased the Debian distro from LSL. Guess
> > what?
> [...]
> > Tell me, [list], how would you phrase such a question so that it
> > could be solved with "step-by-step instructions" that don't elicit
> > the answer under
On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 06:52:57PM -0600, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:
| * [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) spake thusly:
| ...
| > This is the sort of Pollyanna Principle thinking that will keep Linux on the
| > sidelines.
|
| Good. I sincerely hope it'll stay there -- the last thing I want
| in
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) spake thusly:
...
> This is the sort of Pollyanna Principle thinking that will keep Linux on the
> sidelines.
Good. I sincerely hope it'll stay there -- the last thing I want
in my mailbox is mail from lusers who need a dancing paper clip
to tell them how
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Simultaneously, it represents the "rational" voice of most people
> who try to carry the stone, and is astonishingly wide of the
> mark.
I'm having trouble finding your point. Maybe you could clarify it?
Is it that you think that nobody would ever say more than "RTFM"
I really don't want to single out Viktor Rosenfeld
[EMAIL PROTECTED], but his opinion is the pearl seed for a
particular observation. Simultaneously, it represents the "rational" voice
of most people who try to carry the stone, and is astonishingly wide of the
mark. So:
> [1] I don't really have an
on Thu, Nov 29, 2001 at 10:46:15PM -0400, cmasters ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> My recent difficulties with printer and mail setup have led to to the
> point where I simply must express my thoughts on "RTFM".
>
> 1. I'm beginning that this
At 2001-11-30T15:52:18Z, Viktor Rosenfeld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Unfortunately, I also had my fair share of people, who just wanted total
> step-by-step instructions, didn't care for the information I gave them,
> asked follow-up question, that showed, that they haven't put a single
> thou
Hi Bud,
Bud Rogers wrote:
> Some linux newbies are lucky enough to find an elmer to help them get
> started. I was. He spent hours on the phone with me, talking me
> through my first install of Slackware in the summer of 1995. He spent
> more hours on email and ytalk helping me customize an
Hence why i'm subscribed to this list hehehehe, it's amazing the things i've
picked up over the past year, defintely helped my newbie status.
Peter.
On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:00, dman wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2001 at 11:41:39PM -0500, Alan Shutko wrote:
> [lots of good comments]
>
> I must say tha
c of Cyprus
On Thu, 29 Nov 2001, cmasters wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> My recent difficulties with printer and mail setup have led to to the point
> where I simply must express my thoughts on "RTFM".
>
> 1. I'm beginning that this should be the credo to linux
On Thursday 29 November 2001 23:31 pm, Paolo Falcone wrote:
> Depends on the mentality of the user. There are users who are
> willing to help other users, while there are others who'd only
> help if the clueless user has exhausted all means aside from
> reading the manual, some simply help people
On Thursday 29 November 2001 22:28 pm, Charles Baker wrote:
> <>
>
> > > > apt-get install linuxcookbook
> > I just tried the above using source.list entries for
> > stable, and it
> > wasn't downloaded:
> I just got in, but I'm using unstable.
And I'm apt-getting it from woody as I type.
--
On Thu, Nov 29, 2001 at 10:46:15PM -0400, cmasters wrote:
> Greetings all,
Greetings.
> My recent difficulties with printer and mail setup have led to to the point
> where I simply must express my thoughts on "RTFM".
RTFM is easy. If you stack with Linux, sometimes best an
* Alan Shutko ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> It's likely that their situation is not identical to yours. Some
> people learn better in this way than others. When I began learning
> Linux, I simply read all the available documentation and pieced things
> together where I could. In fact, I'd read
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>My recent difficulties with printer and mail setup have led to to the point
>where I simply must express my thoughts on "RTFM".
>
>1. I'm beginning that this should be the credo to linux use. Which >would be
>f
On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 23:41:39 -0500, you wrote:
>cmasters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Do you see. No-one can possible be expected to ~read for comprehension~ a
>> manual that has ~not~ been written with a ~complete~ newbie in
>> mind.
Dman and Alan,
You both have made excellent points. Ma
On Thu, Nov 29, 2001 at 11:41:39PM -0500, Alan Shutko wrote:
[lots of good comments]
I must say that Alan has done a better job of describing the situation
than I did. I too have found it very useful (and enjoyable) to read
docs that seem interesting, yet I often don't understand or have a use
fo
cmasters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Do you see. No-one can possible be expected to ~read for comprehension~ a
> manual that has ~not~ been written with a ~complete~ newbie in
> mind.
Remember that most of the people who tell others to RTFM are people
who _have_ bootstrapped themselves from no
<>
> > > apt-get install linuxcookbook
> I just tried the above using source.list entries for
> stable, and it
> wasn't downloaded:
>
> inneal:~# apt-get install linuxcookbook
> Reading Package Lists... Done
> Building Dependency Tree... Done
> E: Couldn't find package linuxcookbook
> inneal:~#
Ian Monroe wrote:
>
> A surprising about information is still locked up in books. Though some
> are availible online, checking out your local huge bookstore is a good
> idea.
>
> Ian Monroe
> http://mlug.missouri.edu/~eean/
>
> On Thu, 29 Nov 2001, Lance Simmons wrote:
>
> > A book that's full
On Thu, Nov 29, 2001 at 10:46:15PM -0400, cmasters wrote:
| Greetings all,
|
| My recent difficulties with printer and mail setup have led to to the point
| where I simply must express my thoughts on "RTFM".
...
| Their are shortcuts, strange citations, symbols and references to
| struc
A surprising about information is still locked up in books. Though some
are availible online, checking out your local huge bookstore is a good
idea.
Ian Monroe
http://mlug.missouri.edu/~eean/
On Thu, 29 Nov 2001, Lance Simmons wrote:
> A book that's full of useful examples is _The Linux Cookbook
A book that's full of useful examples is _The Linux Cookbook_ by Michael
Stutz, available in paperback from Linux Journal Press, and also by
apt-get install linuxcookbook
Another extremely useful book for getting the whole unix thing is _Think
Unix_ by Jon Lasser (QUE, 2000)
--
Lance Simmons
On Thursday 29 November 2001 06:46 pm, cmasters wrote:
> Last words (for now) ... in order for Open Source to have continued and
> increasing validity, it ~has~ to mean more than just "change at will". It
> must include "if I've written the application, I will include ~clear~
> instructions".
Ther
Greetings all,
My recent difficulties with printer and mail setup have led to to the point
where I simply must express my thoughts on "RTFM".
1. I'm beginning that this should be the credo to linux use. Which would be
fine if reading the "fine" manual didn't impl
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