On Thu 27 Jun 2019 at 02:54:11 (-0400), Ric Moore wrote:
> On 6/26/19 10:23 PM, David Wright wrote:
>
> > Wait a minute—you haven't paid attention to the new names yet you're
> > already arguing here that they shouldn't be the default?
>
> I thought the naming changes (virtual IP addresses) were
On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 08:01:56PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
On 2019-06-26 at 14:49, Michael Stone wrote:
And never changed anything, because locking the names via udev was
necessary to keep them from renaming themselves. So if you bought a
new nic it would never, ever show up as eth0 without s
On 6/26/19 10:23 PM, David Wright wrote:
Wait a minute—you haven't paid attention to the new names yet you're
already arguing here that they shouldn't be the default?
I thought the naming changes (virtual IP addresses) were to benefit
cluster management, fencing and nodes, so you could have l
On Tue 25 Jun 2019 at 19:51:53 (-0400), The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2019-06-25 at 09:28, Michael Stone wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 08:46:28AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> >> On 2019-06-25 at 08:11, Michael Stone wrote:
>
> >>> It isn't because: 1) the new names are predictable but not
> >>> co
(This shouldn't have to be said, but please don't CC me on list messages
unless you both specifically want to draw my attention to them and think
I might not read them on-list otherwise. I am clearly subscribed to the
mailing list.)
On 2019-06-26 at 14:49, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 25, 2
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 07:51:53PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
On 2019-06-25 at 09:28, Michael Stone wrote:
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 08:46:28AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
On 2019-06-25 at 08:11, Michael Stone wrote:
It isn't because: 1) the new names are predictable but not
constant, so you
Hi.
On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 08:15:00AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 07:51:53PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> > On 2019-06-25 at 09:28, Michael Stone wrote:
> > > ifquery --list | grep -v lo
> >
> > And what about when you only want the wired interface, or only the
> /sbin/ifquery --list | grep ^en # or grep ^wl
Of course, this fails when for some reason (either local configuration
or lack or necessary info for "predictable" naming) the interface is
called ... eth0!
Stefan
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 07:51:53PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2019-06-25 at 09:28, Michael Stone wrote:
> > ifquery --list | grep -v lo
>
> And what about when you only want the wired interface, or only the
> wireless one, but the machine might have one of each type?
/sbin/ifquery --list | g
On 06/25/2019 06:51 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
I want the first (only) *wired* interface. Do the new names even
distinguish between the types? (I haven't paid them enough close
attention to have the necessary awareness of what names result in order
to be able to answer that question with any confi
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The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2019-06-25 at 09:28, Michael Stone wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 08:46:28AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
>>> On 2019-06-25 at 08:11, Michael Stone wrote:
>
It isn't because: 1) the new names are predictable but not
>>>
On 2019-06-25 at 09:28, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 08:46:28AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
>
>> On 2019-06-25 at 08:11, Michael Stone wrote:
>>> It isn't because: 1) the new names are predictable but not
>>> constant, so you can't configure a single default across all
>>> syste
On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:35:03 -0400
The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2019-06-25 at 09:06, Celejar wrote:
...
> > certainly greater than mine - but tab completion works in this context,
> > so you can simply do 'ip addr show dev e', etc.
>
> Not in my environment, it doesn't. That's presumably because I
On 2019-06-25 at 09:06, Celejar wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:12:58 +0200
> wrote:
>
> ...
>
>> [1] Both are valid decisions, it's your machine, after all. I, for
>>example, went the "old ways", because I do much manual config
>>at the shell, and it's definitely more ergonomical to ty
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 9:00 AM Dan Purgert wrote:
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>
> The "problem" with them was that they apparently weren't consistent
> across boots if you had multiples of the same "type" -- although I can't
> remember that ever happenening, even on crazy
On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:12:58 +0200
wrote:
...
> [1] Both are valid decisions, it's your machine, after all. I, for
>example, went the "old ways", because I do much manual config
>at the shell, and it's definitely more ergonomical to type
>
> ip addr show dev eth0
>
>than
>
>
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 04:22:54PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
The one thing I can't understand is why we still don't have "network
interface aliases" (equivalent to symlinks), so that systemd can name my
interface enp2s0 *and* eth0 instead of having to choose between those
two, just like it has
>>The one thing I can't understand is why we still don't have "network
>>interface aliases" (equivalent to symlinks), so that systemd can name my
>>interface enp2s0 *and* eth0 instead of having to choose between those
>>two, just like it has no problem naming my SSD /dev/sda and
>>/dev/disk/by-id/a
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 08:23:31PM +0200, Martin S. Weber wrote:
This is not true. I use USB OTGs of embedded devices behind an USB hub,
and the interface names vary between various power cycles of the embedded
devices.
Current default for USB ethernet (AFAIK) is to use enx
where t
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 01:05:56PM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> However, if you upgraded to stretch, I think you'd have to show that
> you'd allowed the system to preserve the old names, rather than trying
> to circumvent Debian's methods for doing so. Isn't that what you've done?
Upgrades to stre
Hi!
To derail this discussion a bit more ...
On 2019-06-25 08:46:28, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2019-06-25 at 08:11, Michael Stone wrote:
> > (...)
> > 1) the new names are predictable but not constant, so you can't
> > configure a single default across all systems
> (...)
> On a single computer wi
On Tue 25 Jun 2019 at 11:09:12 (+0200), Hans wrote:
> Hi Tomas,
>
> > The moniker for that is "predictable interface names". And you
> > seem to assume that there hasn't been a discussion.
> >
> > This being Debian, there sure has been one, you just didn't
> > notice :-)
> >
> Might be, but this
On Tue 25 Jun 2019 at 12:01:31 (-0400), Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > For good description of the problem (unpredictable names) and the logic
> > behind the chosen solution:
> >> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
>
> The one thing I can't understand is
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 12:01:31PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
For good description of the problem (unpredictable names) and the logic
behind the chosen solution:
https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
The one thing I can't understand is why we sti
> For good description of the problem (unpredictable names) and the logic
> behind the chosen solution:
>> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
The one thing I can't understand is why we still don't have "network
interface aliases" (equivalent to syml
* On 2019 25 Jun 09:00 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:
> The "problem" with them was that they apparently weren't consistent
> across boots if you had multiples of the same "type" -- although I can't
> remember that ever happenening, even on crazy frankenboxes that had 3
> and 4 PCI NICs in them (barring
Thanks for explaining the limitation of the udev assignment mechanism
and why the present system was adopted.
- Nate
--
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us GPG key: D55A8819 GitHub: N0NB
signa
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 01:59:27PM -, Dan Purgert wrote:
Michael Stone wrote:
weren't constant, but people didn't seem to care as much about the
nuances because "that's the way it's always been". (Sometimes it was an
eth, sometimes it was a wlan, etc.) Why were those differences ok but
these
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Michael Stone wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 08:46:28AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
>>On 2019-06-25 at 08:11, Michael Stone wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 11:09:12AM +0200, Hans wrote:
>>>
Might be, but this does not explain, why there a
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 09:30:59AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 09:05:30AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > Debian's defaults are a bit baffling sometimes. They assumed a mobile
> > device when they decided to put "allow-hotplug" on your wired ethernet
> > interfaces, which
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 09:05:30AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
Debian's defaults are a bit baffling sometimes. They assumed a mobile
device when they decided to put "allow-hotplug" on your wired ethernet
interfaces, which breaks everything under the sun on traditional
servers or workstations in
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 08:46:28AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
On 2019-06-25 at 08:11, Michael Stone wrote:
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 11:09:12AM +0200, Hans wrote:
Might be, but this does not explain, why there are still scripts
and configurations, which are still using the old names. And THAT
i
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 08:46:28AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> On a single computer with any number of interfaces of any type, the new
> names are 100% predictable from one boot to the next. (At least assuming
> you don't change which slot a given network device is connected to; IIRC
> that can ch
On 2019-06-25 at 08:11, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 11:09:12AM +0200, Hans wrote:
>
>> Might be, but this does not explain, why there are still scripts
>> and configurations, which are still using the old names. And THAT
>> is the problem.
>
> It isn't because:
> 1) the new na
On 2019-06-25, Hans wrote:
>
> When it was decided to use new names, then ALL related packages should be
> adapted to the new style. If it is not done, this is a bug. More over, IMO it
> is a critical release bug. For a new release I expect those things fixed. It
> is
> a thing of quality.
Ho
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 11:09:12AM +0200, Hans wrote:
Might be, but this does not explain, why there are still scripts and
configurations, which are still using the old names. And THAT is the problem.
It isn't because:
1) the new names are predictable but not constant, so you can't
configure a
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 01:36:23PM +0200, Hans wrote:
> > You mean *your* old files or those coming with *new* Debian packages?
> Here I mean *new* Debian packages. What I want to say is this: Upgrading to a
> new package version should not destroy the system or force the admin to edit
> many con
> You mean *your* old files or those coming with *new* Debian packages?
Here I mean *new* Debian packages. What I want to say is this: Upgrading to a
new package version should not destroy the system or force the admin to edit
many configurations manually.
When it was decided to use new names,
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 12:56:45PM +0200, Hans wrote:
> Hi Richard and Tomas,
>
> maybe I was not clear enough. So I try to explain again:
[...]
> The point is: There are many OLD files from FORMER installations of times
> ago,
You mean *your* old files or those coming with *new* Debian packa
Hi Richard and Tomas,
maybe I was not clear enough. So I try to explain again:
When it is recommended to use the predictable names, then please explain me
(and all the other people), why the heck are configuration files and scripts
still using the old names.
I do not want to know, WHY these a
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 05:07:07AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 06/25/2019 03:49 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> >
> >[1]
> >https://wiki.debian.org/NewInStretch#If_you_install_fresh_instead_of_upgrading...
> >You do read the release notes, don't you? ;-)
>
> That reference leads to two pa
On 06/25/2019 03:49 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
[1]
https://wiki.debian.org/NewInStretch#If_you_install_fresh_instead_of_upgrading...
You do read the release notes, don't you? ;-)
That reference leads to two pages worth reading by fellow newbies.
For good description of the problem (unpr
Hi Tomas,
> The moniker for that is "predictable interface names". And you
> seem to assume that there hasn't been a discussion.
>
> This being Debian, there sure has been one, you just didn't
> notice :-)
>
Might be, but this does not explain, why there are still scripts and
configurations, wh
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 10:03:48AM +0200, Hans wrote:
> Hi folks,
[...]
> The issue:
> Since some time the ethernet devices like wlan0 or eth0 got new names, like
> wlp2s0 or enp0s9 or similar.
>
> Whilst this is no problem to change these manually in
> /etc/network/interfaces,
> there are a
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