Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-16 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/16/07 00:39, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 03:09:06AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: >>> Sure, but the Hindus aren't doing it in the name of God, Allah, >>> Shiva or whatever. Hinduism has other problems but claiming an >>> exclusiv

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-16 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/16/07 00:41, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 06:09:36AM -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: >> By definition, the natural man is *not* a spritiual man, and hence not >> bron again, and hence not a Christian. > > So if you are not a

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-16 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/16/07 00:40, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 09:17:20AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> On 10 May, Joe Hart wrote: >> >>> ... >>> I really just wish that Christians would adhere to the lessons that >>> they so firmly believe i

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-15 Thread Chris Bannister
On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 06:09:36AM -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > By definition, the natural man is *not* a spritiual man, and hence not > bron again, and hence not a Christian. So if you are not a Christian you are not spiritual? -- Chris. ==

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-15 Thread Chris Bannister
On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 09:17:20AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On 10 May, Joe Hart wrote: > > > ... > > > > > I really just wish that Christians would adhere to the lessons that > > they so firmly believe in. But alas, we have a whole lot of people > > that seem to do well on Sunday and f

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-15 Thread Chris Bannister
On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 09:58:24AM +0200, Joe Hart wrote: [Please trim unnecessary quotes] > I will quote my own message: > > The difference is that the person "dressing" the lamb is preparing it > for use, usually to eat. That serves a purpose in at least nourishing > the body. I suppose sacrif

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-15 Thread Chris Bannister
On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 10:54:17PM +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote: > (I am currently in a hotel with a time-limited internet connection and > it will run out in a few minutes. Therefore I cannot provide the actual > citations right now. I will be back online on Friday, but by then this > thread wil

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-15 Thread Chris Bannister
On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 07:08:42PM +1000, SB wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: > > On 05/09/07 04:02, Jochen Schulz wrote: > >>> Ron Johnson: > And Christianity teaches "love your neighbor as yourself". > > That doesn't mean that the humans who purport to believe in it > actually foll

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-15 Thread Chris Bannister
On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 03:09:06AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: > > Sure, but the Hindus aren't doing it in the name of God, Allah, > > Shiva or whatever. Hinduism has other problems but claiming an > > exclusive franchise on truth is not one of them. > > And Christianity teaches "love your neighbor

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-15 Thread yag
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10 May, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: I guess that depends on whether you consider the authorship of the Bible to rest with God, or with the men who transcribed His words. I MAINTAINER THE FORMER, you apparently the latter. I BELIEVE THAT THE BIBLE WAS INSPIRED B

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-15 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/15/07 06:47, Michael M. wrote: [snip] > sort out what's moral or immoral; personally, I think animal sacrifice > is distasteful, disrespectful, You're a vegetarian? >and just one of many unappealing aspects > of

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-15 Thread Celejar
On Tue, 15 May 2007 04:47:29 -0700 "Michael M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 14:53 -0400, Celejar wrote: > > > > My point is simply that the Bible clearly views sacrifice as > > religiously valuable, and whatever the value may be, there's no a > > priori reason to assume it'

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-15 Thread Michael M.
On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 14:53 -0400, Celejar wrote: > > My point is simply that the Bible clearly views sacrifice as > religiously valuable, and whatever the value may be, there's no a > priori reason to assume it's less legitimate than nourishment. The only > possible basis to attack the bible as c

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-13 Thread Celejar
On Sat, 12 May 2007 09:58:24 +0200 Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Celejar wrote: > > On Fri, 11 May 2007 11:40:20 +0200 > > Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > >> Hash: SHA1 > >> > >> Celejar

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-12 Thread Florian Kulzer
On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 23:02:11 -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 04:01:39AM +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote: [...] > Actually, sort of. The issue was that someone pointed out that the > Bible "redefined" pi to be 3. My point was that if people want to > criticize the Bibl

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-12 Thread Roberto C . Sánchez
On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 05:07:20AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: > > Each gospel is only telling the part of the story that he sees as > relevant to his audience. > I like to think of the Gospels as akin to getting the same news story from CNN, the NYT, FoxNews and the BBC (and I don't mean when they

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-12 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/12/07 02:58, Joe Hart wrote: > Celejar wrote: >> On Fri, 11 May 2007 11:40:20 +0200 >> Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> Celejar wrote: On Thu, 10 May 2007 11:40:01 +0200 Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ron John

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-12 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/12/07 03:48, Florian Kulzer wrote: > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 16:55:07 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: >> On 05/09/07 15:54, Florian Kulzer wrote: > > [...] > >>> It always struck me as odd that the gospels could not agree on whether >>> Josef and Mar

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-12 Thread Florian Kulzer
On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 16:55:07 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 05/09/07 15:54, Florian Kulzer wrote: [...] > > It always struck me as odd that the gospels could not agree on whether > > Josef and Maria had to go Bethlehem for a census or if they had been ^ ^ Interesting how I sli

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-12 Thread Joe Hart
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Celejar wrote: > On Fri, 11 May 2007 11:40:20 +0200 > Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Celejar wrote: >>> On Thu, 10 May 2007 11:40:01 +0200 >>> Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>>

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-12 Thread Joe Hart
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Celejar wrote: > On Fri, 11 May 2007 18:13:59 +0200 > Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Celejar wrote: >>> On Thu, 10 May 2007 19:59:56 +0200 >>> Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>>

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-12 Thread Joe Hart
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Roberto � wrote: > On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 06:04:09PM +0200, Joe Hart wrote: >> The same can be said about package managers. While we all most likely >> agree that apt is a superior package manager, there are those that think >> RPM is by far better,

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Roberto C . Sánchez
On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 04:01:39AM +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote: > > My point was that, since the bible uses "ten" and "thirty", there is no > justification to force the passage cited by Ron into a "one significant > digit" context. If we assume that the biblical texts were meant to be > understood

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Florian Kulzer
On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 17:13:25 -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 07:41:10PM +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote: > > > > Actually I understand the concept well enough to know that it cannot be > > applied stringently if one deals with numbers that are divisible by > > positive i

Re: [Fwd: Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?]

2007-05-11 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/11/07 19:40, Miles Fidelman wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: >>> the Western world, there's not a lot of love lost between Hindus and >>> Muslims - but both are pretty mainstream (depending on where you are). >>> >> >> I guess it depends on your

Re: [Fwd: Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?]

2007-05-11 Thread Miles Fidelman
Ron Johnson wrote: the Western world, there's not a lot of love lost between Hindus and Muslims - but both are pretty mainstream (depending on where you are). I guess it depends on your definition of "mainstream". Christianity: 33% of world population Islam: 21% Hinduism: 14% Norther

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread John Fleming
On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 01:26:34PM +0200, Joe Hart wrote: Roberto � wrote: Let us agree that to every Christian and Jew (at least) God is a He. Anyone read "Evangelical Feminism - A New Path to Liberalism" by Wayne Grudem? Interesting book about interpretation of scripture. It talks about

Re: [Fwd: Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?]

2007-05-11 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/11/07 18:22, Miles Fidelman wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: > In the mainstream, traditional Western religions, God is described as > He. > How many mainstream, traditional Western religions are there besides Christ

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Roberto C . Sánchez
On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 06:23:32PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 05/11/07 18:15, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > >> > > If by "open minded" you mean "don't believe the Bible", > > Pretty much. > > > in which case I > > doubt their faith. > > I

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/11/07 18:15, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 05:54:30PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: >> On 05/11/07 16:02, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: >> [snip] >>>1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the >>>Father, t

Re: [Fwd: Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?]

2007-05-11 Thread Miles Fidelman
Ron Johnson wrote: In the mainstream, traditional Western religions, God is described as He. How many mainstream, traditional Western religions are there besides Christianity? Judaism. With all the hatred that has been cast upon Judaism over the past 2000 years, c

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Roberto C . Sánchez
On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 05:54:30PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 05/11/07 16:02, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > [snip] > > > >1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the > >Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. > > > > Let us agree that to every C

Re: [Fwd: Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?]

2007-05-11 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/11/07 18:04, Miles Fidelman wrote: > > Ron Johnson wrote: >> >> On 05/11/07 15:19, Celejar wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 11 May 2007 13:26:34 +0200 >>> Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >> [snip] >> Let us just agree that to you, God

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Miles Fidelman
Ron Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/11/07 16:02, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: [snip] 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Let us agree that to every Christian and J

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/11/07 12:10, Miles Fidelman wrote: > Joe Hart wrote: >> The difference is that the person "dressing" the lamb is preparing it >> for use, usually to eat. That serves a purpose in at least nourishing >> the body. I suppose sacrificing the lamb c

[Fwd: Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?]

2007-05-11 Thread Miles Fidelman
Ron Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/11/07 15:19, Celejar wrote: On Fri, 11 May 2007 13:26:34 +0200 Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [snip] Let us just agree that to you, God is a He. In the mainstream, traditional Western religions, Go

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/11/07 16:02, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: [snip] > >1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the >Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. > > Let us agree that to every Christian and Jew (at least)

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/11/07 15:19, Celejar wrote: > On Fri, 11 May 2007 13:26:34 +0200 > Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [snip] >> Let us just agree that to you, God is a He. > > In the mainstream, traditional Western religions, God is described as > He. How man

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Roberto C . Sánchez
On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 07:41:10PM +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote: > > Actually I understand the concept well enough to know that it cannot be > applied stringently if one deals with numbers that are divisible by > positive integer powers of ten and which are written down as words. > Obviously, "ten"

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Roberto C . Sánchez
On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 06:04:09PM +0200, Joe Hart wrote: > > The same can be said about package managers. While we all most likely > agree that apt is a superior package manager, there are those that think > RPM is by far better, and others that think the only real way to run a > GNU/Linux syste

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Roberto C . Sánchez
On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 08:48:28AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On 10 May, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > >> > > I guess that depends on whether you consider the authorship of the > > Bible to rest with God, or with the men who transcribed His words. I > > maintainer the former, you apparently

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Roberto C . Sánchez
On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 01:26:34PM +0200, Joe Hart wrote: > Roberto � wrote: > > On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 11:31:20AM +0200, Joe Hart wrote: > >> My point is that God, if She exists, is beyond our comprehension. We > >> have to have faith in Her existence. > >> > > A valid point, except that God i

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Celejar
On Fri, 11 May 2007 18:13:59 +0200 Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Celejar wrote: > > On Thu, 10 May 2007 19:59:56 +0200 > > Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > [snip] > > > >> Faith is by definition believing in something that c

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Benjamin A'Lee
On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 04:19:39PM -0400, Celejar wrote: > On Fri, 11 May 2007 13:26:34 +0200 > Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Roberto � wrote: > > > On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 11:31:20AM +0200, Joe Hart wrote: > > >> My point is t

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Celejar
On Fri, 11 May 2007 11:40:20 +0200 Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Celejar wrote: > > On Thu, 10 May 2007 11:40:01 +0200 > > Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > >> Hash: SHA1 > >> > >> Ron Joh

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Celejar
On Fri, 11 May 2007 13:26:34 +0200 Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Roberto � wrote: > > On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 11:31:20AM +0200, Joe Hart wrote: > >> My point is that God, if She exists, is beyond our comprehension. We > >> have to have

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Florian Kulzer
On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 18:12:56 -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 10:29:55PM +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote: > > > > $ wcalc 10*pi > > = 31.4159 > > > > The god from the bible can create the universe, but he cannot round to > > the nearest integer correctly? Did Brahma, Vi

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Miles Fidelman
Joe Hart wrote: The difference is that the person "dressing" the lamb is preparing it for use, usually to eat. That serves a purpose in at least nourishing the body. I suppose sacrificing the lamb could be said to be nourishing the spirit, but I don't think a court of law would see it that way.

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Joe Hart
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ron Johnson wrote: > On 05/11/07 04:40, Joe Hart wrote: >> Celejar wrote: >>> On Thu, 10 May 2007 11:40:01 +0200 >>> Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ron Johnson wrote: [snip] >>

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Joe Hart
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Celejar wrote: > On Thu, 10 May 2007 19:59:56 +0200 > Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > [snip] > >> Faith is by definition believing in something that cannot be proven, and >> that is what religion usually is. It is not wrong to believe in a >

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Joe Hart
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ron Johnson wrote: > On 05/11/07 06:26, Joe Hart wrote: >> Roberto ý wrote: >>> On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 11:31:20AM +0200, Joe Hart wrote: My point is that God, if She exists, is beyond our comprehension. We have to have faith in Her existenc

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/11/07 08:00, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On 10 May, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > >> On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 12:25:43PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> wrote: > >>> I agree with you on this. My point was that some American >>> evangelical churches p

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Celejar
On Thu, 10 May 2007 19:59:56 +0200 Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [snip] > Faith is by definition believing in something that cannot be proven, and > that is what religion usually is. It is not wrong to believe in a > faith, and Roberto and Celejar do a good job of defending their religion.

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread judd
On 10 May, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 12:25:43PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >> I agree with you on this. My point was that some American >> evangelical churches put a lot of emphasis on each person having a >> specific, identifiable conversion event in their lif

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/11/07 04:40, Joe Hart wrote: > Celejar wrote: >> On Thu, 10 May 2007 11:40:01 +0200 >> Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> Ron Johnson wrote: >>> [snip] > I am playing the Devil

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/11/07 06:26, Joe Hart wrote: > Roberto ý wrote: >> On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 11:31:20AM +0200, Joe Hart wrote: >>> My point is that God, if She exists, is beyond our comprehension. We >>> have to have faith in Her existence. >>> >> A valid point,

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread judd
On 10 May, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 09:11:33AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: \ > ... > >> Also, one should remember that "the bible" is not one book but a >> collection of writings by many authors in different cultures over >> a span of thousands of years. Many types

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Joe Hart
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Roberto � wrote: > On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 11:31:20AM +0200, Joe Hart wrote: >> My point is that God, if She exists, is beyond our comprehension. We >> have to have faith in Her existence. >> > A valid point, except that God is in fact a He. > > Rega

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Joe Hart
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Celejar wrote: > On Thu, 10 May 2007 11:40:01 +0200 > Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Ron Johnson wrote: >> [snip] I am playing the Devil's advocate here. So I might as well fulfill

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Roberto C . Sánchez
On Fri, May 11, 2007 at 11:31:20AM +0200, Joe Hart wrote: > > My point is that God, if She exists, is beyond our comprehension. We > have to have faith in Her existence. > A valid point, except that God is in fact a He. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez http://people.connexer.com/~robe

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Joe Hart
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ron Johnson wrote: > On 05/10/07 05:59, Joe Hart wrote: >> Ron Johnson wrote: >>> Suicide should be legal, but euthanasia is "someone else killing >>> you", and I see that as a great slippery slope towards total >>> government control over life. > >>

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-11 Thread Joe Hart
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Roberto � wrote: > On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 07:59:56PM +0200, Joe Hart wrote: >> Faith is by definition believing in something that cannot be proven, and >> that is what religion usually is. It is not wrong to believe in a >> faith, and Roberto and Cel

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/10/07 05:59, Joe Hart wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: >> Suicide should be legal, but euthanasia is "someone else killing >> you", and I see that as a great slippery slope towards total >> government control over life. > > > Well, it isn't. Neithe

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Jabka Atu
On 5/9/07, Roberto C. Sánchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 12:45:49PM +0200, Joe Hart wrote: > > 2) The bible that you refer to is full of contradictions. If one is not > to commit murder, based in the Ten Commandments, then how can a god > request that one sacrifice one's

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Roberto C . Sánchez
On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 12:25:43PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On 9 May, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > >> > > 1 Corinthains 2 > > > > 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: > > for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because > > they are sp

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Miles Fidelman
Joe Hart wrote: Faith is by definition believing in something that cannot be proven, and that is what religion usually is. It is not wrong to believe in a faith, and Roberto and Celejar do a good job of defending their religion. I expect anybody who's religion includes a meditative practice

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Roberto C . Sánchez
On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 09:11:33AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > This is a well known contradiction to biblical scholars. I don't > remember the exact verses, but the gospels state in some places that the > last supper was the passover meal and in other places state that > passover was the

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Roberto C . Sánchez
On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 07:59:56PM +0200, Joe Hart wrote: > > Faith is by definition believing in something that cannot be proven, and > that is what religion usually is. It is not wrong to believe in a > faith, and Roberto and Celejar do a good job of defending their religion. > Your definitio

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Celejar
On Thu, 10 May 2007 04:58:59 -0500 Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [snip] > And I believe that a little hypocrisy is a good thing, and needed > for the smooth functioning of society. Well, hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue, and I've always understood that as a positive thi

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Celejar
On Thu, 10 May 2007 11:40:01 +0200 Joe Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Ron Johnson wrote: > [snip] > >> I am playing the Devil's advocate here. So I might as well fulfill my > >> role. So, you're saying God was merciful on Isaac because a la

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Celejar
On Wed, 9 May 2007 11:38:11 -0400 Roberto C. Sánchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 09:08:28AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: > > > > Or better Biblical scholarship. > > > > By using the KJV, you are saying that Biblical scholars have not > > learned any more Greek or Hebrew in

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread steef
Joe Hart wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 steef wrote: Joe Hart wrote: steef wrote: I really just wish that Christians would adhere to the lessons that they so firmly believe in. But alas, we have a whole lot of people that seem to do well on Sunday and forget a

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Joe Hart
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 steef wrote: > Joe Hart wrote: > steef wrote: > > I really just wish that Christians would adhere to the lessons that they so firmly believe in. But alas, we have a whole lot of people that seem to do well on Sunday and forget about

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread judd
On 9 May, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 04:12:03PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> On 9 May, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: >> > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 11:02:24AM +0200, Jochen Schulz wrote: >> >> Ron Johnson: >> >> > >> >> > By definition, the natural man is *not* a spriti

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread steef
Joe Hart wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 steef wrote: I really just wish that Christians would adhere to the lessons that they so firmly believe in. But alas, we have a whole lot of people that seem to do well on Sunday and forget about the rest of the week. Is it a t

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread steef
Ron Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/10/07 04:09, steef wrote: [snip] nice talking, joe. i have a question: what do you think of the thesis: 'where belief begins reason ends' ?? String theory? - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fi

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion

2007-05-10 Thread Wackojacko
Amy Templeton wrote: Wackojacko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: Well, since we are getting all scientific, the ratio of the diameter of a circle to its circumference is in fact 3, if all you have is one significant digit, which it appears is all we have from the text. Now,

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Andrei Popescu
On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 09:17:20AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > The two are not mutually exclusive. The traditional interpretation > of > the "eye for an eye" verse is that the punishment should fit the crime, > but not exceed it, i.e. "an eye for an eye", not two eyes or a life. > This was

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread judd
On 9 May, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 04:28:53PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> On 9 May, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: >> > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 12:49:41PM +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote: >> >> > ... >> >> >> I seem to remember that there are also a fair number of >> >>

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Celejar
On Wed, 9 May 2007 10:19:12 -0500 Gnu_Raiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Roberto C. Sánchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >Please point one out. > > Please don't! > > It's like trying to explain why some people like vanila while others like > chocolate. To some the very belief in a supreme bei

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread judd
On 10 May, Joe Hart wrote: > ... > > I really just wish that Christians would adhere to the lessons that > they so firmly believe in. But alas, we have a whole lot of people > that seem to do well on Sunday and forget about the rest of the week. > > Is it a turn the other cheek world we live i

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Joe Hart
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ron Johnson wrote: > > Suicide should be legal, but euthanasia is "someone else killing > you", and I see that as a great slippery slope towards total > government control over life. > Well, it isn't. Neither is euthanasia there, but the government

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/10/07 04:40, Joe Hart wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: > [snip] >>> I am playing the Devil's advocate here. So I might as well fulfill my >>> role. So, you're saying God was merciful on Isaac because a lamb was >>> sacrificed instead. Fine. So God

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Joe Hart
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ron Johnson wrote: [snip] >> I am playing the Devil's advocate here. So I might as well fulfill my >> role. So, you're saying God was merciful on Isaac because a lamb was >> sacrificed instead. Fine. So God demanded cruelty to an animal, which >> i

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Joe Hart
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 steef wrote: > > I really just wish that Christians would adhere to the lessons that they > so firmly believe in. But alas, we have a whole lot of people that seem > to do well on Sunday and forget about the rest of the week. > > Is it a turn the o

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/10/07 04:09, steef wrote: [snip] > nice talking, joe. i have a question: what do you think of the > thesis: > > 'where belief begins reason ends' ?? String theory? - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a d

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/10/07 03:50, Joe Hart wrote: > Raquel wrote: >> On Wed, 9 May 2007 16:26:31 -0400 (EDT) >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >>> It helps to know something of the context when reading the >>> bible. The people who Abraham lived among (Canaanites,

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread steef
Joe Hart wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Raquel wrote: On Wed, 9 May 2007 16:26:31 -0400 (EDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It helps to know something of the context when reading the bible. The people who Abraham lived among (Canaanites, IIRC?), practiced sacrif

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-10 Thread Joe Hart
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Raquel wrote: > On Wed, 9 May 2007 16:26:31 -0400 (EDT) > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> It helps to know something of the context when reading the >> bible. The people who Abraham lived among (Canaanites, IIRC?), >> practiced sacrificed the "fir

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-09 Thread Roberto C . Sánchez
On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 04:10:42PM -0700, Raquel wrote: > On Wed, 9 May 2007 16:26:31 -0400 (EDT) > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > It helps to know something of the context when reading the > > bible. The people who Abraham lived among (Canaanites, IIRC?), > > practiced sacrificed the "

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-09 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/09/07 19:10, SB wrote: > Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: >> On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 09:00:39AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: >>> There is great debate as to whether the Hebrew says "kill" or "murder". >>> >>> Since, in the Old Testament, YHWH (the Tetragra

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-09 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/09/07 19:11, SB wrote: > John Fleming wrote: >> - Original Message - From: "SB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "Ron Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, May 09

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-09 Thread SB
John Fleming wrote: > > - Original Message - From: "SB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Ron Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 5:08 AM > Subject: Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-09 Thread SB
Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 09:00:39AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: >> There is great debate as to whether the Hebrew says "kill" or "murder". >> >> Since, in the Old Testament, YHWH (the Tetragrammaton, or Name of >> God) both in Law and for conquest tells the Israelites to ki

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-09 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/09/07 10:19, Gnu_Raiz wrote: > Roberto C. Sánchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Please point one out. > > Please don't! > > It's like trying to explain why some people like vanila while others like > chocolate. To some the very belief in a

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-09 Thread Raquel
On Wed, 9 May 2007 16:26:31 -0400 (EDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > It helps to know something of the context when reading the > bible. The people who Abraham lived among (Canaanites, IIRC?), > practiced sacrificed the "first fruits" to whatever gods they > worshipped. It was not uncommon

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-09 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/09/07 17:04, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 04:12:03PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> On 9 May, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: >>> On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 11:02:24AM +0200, Jochen Schulz wrote: Ron Johnson: >>> By defini

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-09 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/09/07 10:41, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 09:34:56AM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: >> On 05/09/07 08:24, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: >> [snip] >>> 3) Anything God does is, by definition, right. >> While true from a Believer's PO

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-09 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/09/07 17:15, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 04:58:21PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: >> On 05/09/07 10:47, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: >>> Well, since we are getting all scientific, the ratio of the diameter of >>> a circle to its

Re: [OT] Good, evil and religion [WAS] Re: A way to compile 3rd party modules into deb system?

2007-05-09 Thread Ron Johnson
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/09/07 10:38, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: [snip] >> > Do a Google search for Frank Logsdon. Now, read some of the material > there and then tell me what you think. I read the first 6 Google links. Lots of duplication and firey rhetoric, but not a

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