Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

On Thursday 31 July 2025 02:17:03 pm Nicolas George wrote: > Debian should embed an AI in apt to detect when users are about to make > a mistake and prevent them from doing it. > No! There is so much badly-implemented crap out there under the heading of AI that I for one want absolutely nothing

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

David Wright wrote: > On Thu 31 Jul 2025 at 19:07:30 (+), Andy Smith wrote: >> We have learned in this thread that sudo does already have a check in its >> prerm that prevents its removal if the system has a root account with no >> password or if root is a locked account. >> >> It seems reason

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

David Wright wrote: > On Thu 31 Jul 2025 at 19:07:30 (+), Andy Smith wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 31, 2025 at 08:01:56PM +0200, Jan Claeys wrote: > > > > We have learned in this thread that sudo does already have a check in its > > prerm that prevents its removal if the system has a root account wi

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

On Thu 31 Jul 2025 at 19:07:30 (+), Andy Smith wrote: > On Thu, Jul 31, 2025 at 08:01:56PM +0200, Jan Claeys wrote: > > On Wed, 2025-07-30 at 19:55 +0100, Darac Marjal wrote: > > > There's an argument that sudo should refuse to uninstall itself (e.g. > > > in a prerm script) if the root user do

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

On 01/08/2025 02:07, Andy Smith wrote: On Thu, Jul 31, 2025 at 08:01:56PM +0200, Jan Claeys wrote: On Wed, 2025-07-30 at 19:55 +0100, Darac Marjal wrote: There's an argument that sudo should refuse to uninstall itself (e.g. in a prerm script) if the root user doesn't have a password at all. Tha

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

Hi, On Thu, Jul 31, 2025 at 08:01:56PM +0200, Jan Claeys wrote: > On Wed, 2025-07-30 at 19:55 +0100, Darac Marjal wrote: > > There's an argument that sudo should refuse to uninstall itself (e.g. > > in a prerm script) if the root user doesn't have a password at all. > > That would be a neat trick.

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

derstand" all possible configurations of each > tool!). Debian should embed an AI in apt to detect when users are about to make a mistake and prevent them from doing it. > (please don't CC me when replying to the list) (This is ineffective. Just put a reply-to header like I do.) Regards, -- Nicolas George

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

hings as root under certain conditions (doas, pkexec, runc, ssh, etc.). There is no way sudo's prerm script can check all possible ways (which would also include being able to "understand" all possible configurations of each tool!). -- Jan Claeys (please don't CC me when replying to the list)

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

I read the first few replies on this thread and (a common feeling reading Debian User) felt utter despair. Until I got to your messages, at least. Thank you for writing constructive, thoughtful advice. -- Please do not CC me for listmail. Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org https://jmtd.net

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

Greg Wooledge (HE12025-07-31): > If you look at > more closely, you'll see that they are not sorted alphabetically. Indeed, but it is not what José saw when removing the package, it is what he saw later to find out what happened. The con

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

On Thu, Jul 31, 2025 at 11:16:38 +0200, Nicolas George wrote: > Lee (HE12025-07-30): > > It would be helpful if autoremove SORTED the list of packages to be > > removed so that other, important packages, wouldn't be hidden among > > all the python3-whatever packages. > > Oh, yes, excellent idea, l

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

Lee (HE12025-07-30): > It would be helpful if autoremove SORTED the list of packages to be > removed so that other, important packages, wouldn't be hidden among > all the python3-whatever packages. Oh, yes, excellent idea, let it use an unpredictable order rather than that boring alphabetical orde

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

Stefan writes: > Thinking of scenarios how `sudo` could end up marked as > automatically-installed... 26 packages recommend sudo: Recommends: apt-dater-host |Recommends: inxi Recommends: dkms Recommends: winetricks Recommends: v4l2loopback-utils Recommends: task-desktop Recommends: ss

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 4:24 PM Andy Smith wrote: > > > Start-Date: 2025-07-30 08:30:22 > > Commandline: apt-get autoremove > > Requested-By: chafar (1000) > > Remove: python3-blinker:amd64 (1.5-1), python-babel-localedata:amd64 > > (2.10.3-1), python3-webcolors:amd64 (1.11.1-1), libxaw7:amd64 (2:

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

Hi, On Thu, Jul 31, 2025 at 08:42:07AM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: > Removing sudo (1.9.13p3-1+deb12u1) ... > You have asked that the sudo package be removed, > but no root password has been set. > Without sudo, you may not be able to gain administrative privileges. Hah, so it seems we have

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

an interesting idea. sudo pre-rm could say, "please set a root password and retry" or something. I took from OP saying about "who remembers root password?" that they did have a root password set though, in which case this wouldn't help of course. Just a data point. I use

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 11:34 AM Andy Smith wrote: > Although, I think if they wanted to make sudo "essential" they would > need to co-ordinate that with other Debian Developers. There is also the "Protected" field. It acts like "Essential" when trying to remove, but not required like "Essential

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 9:32 PM Stefan Monnier wrote: > > >> If you need sudo, why not just apt-mark manual it? > > Does anyone know if the installer does this if the administrator doesn't set > > a root password? > > I believe so, but I don't know for sure, no. > > > There's an argument that sudo

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

Hi, On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 07:55:12PM +0100, Darac Marjal wrote: > There's an argument that sudo should refuse to uninstall itself (e.g. in a > prerm script) if the root user doesn't have a password at all. That would be > a neat trick. That's an interesting idea. sudo p

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

life... but may be just me. Fact is you only got sudo installed on your system because some other software you installed depended upon it. Please explain how Debian is supposed to know that you actually want it independently of that other software? At the moment your argument is, "I always us

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

>> If you need sudo, why not just apt-mark manual it? > Does anyone know if the installer does this if the administrator doesn't set > a root password? I believe so, but I don't know for sure, no. > There's an argument that sudo should refuse to uninstall itself (e.g. in > a prerm script) if the

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

On 30/07/2025 18:36, William Edwards wrote: If you need sudo, why not just apt-mark manual it? Does anyone know if the installer does this if the administrator doesn't set a root password? There's an argument that sudo should refuse to uninstall itself (e.g. in a prerm script) if the root u

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

José Esteban wrote: > Is it realistic to hope you to remember such many little things like this > each time you setup some system ? How many headless systems usually work > without sudo ? People who install many headless (or any other kind) of system should use an automated management system. a

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

> Is it realistic to hope you to remember such many little things like this > each time you setup some system ? How many headless systems usually work > without sudo ? Debian tries to be flexible, so it tries not to impose any particular set of packages. It has its pros and cons, inevitably. I th

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

Andy Smith (HE12025-07-30): > I am surprised that a package maintainer has told you to report anything > to debian-user. Are you sure about that? It might be something like “I don't have time for that kind of nonsense, please ask on debian-user@lists.debian.org”. Regards, -- Nicolas George

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

José Esteban (HE12025-07-30): > Is it realistic to hope you to remember such many little things like this > each time you setup some system ? You did not take notes? Your bad. > How many headless systems usually work > without sudo ? Many. > I'm worked a whole

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

Hello. Is it realistic to hope you to remember such many little things like this each time you setup some system ? How many headless systems usually work without sudo ? I'm worked a whole life making software and I've always acted to ease my users' life... but may be just me. Thanks for th

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 05:56:23PM +, Andy Smith wrote: > The general solution to this is > > 1. express your dependencies > > 2. use dangerous commands carefully and the general advice to me is to proof read emails better Thanks, Andy

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

Hi José, On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 06:48:45PM +0200, José Esteban wrote: > I'I've written to sudo package maintainer, but he suggests me to > report that here and so I do. I am surprised that a package maintainer has told you to report anything to debian-user. Are you sure about that? Here we are a

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

On 30/07/2025 13:48, José Esteban wrote: Commandline: apt-get autoremove Requested-By: chafar (1000) Remove: python3-blinker:amd64 (1.5-1), python-babel-localedata:amd64 (2.10.3-1), python3-webcolors:amd64 (1.11.1-1), libxaw7:amd64 (2:1.0.14-1), python3-importlib-metadata:amd64 (4.12.0-1), lib

Re: Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

If you need sudo, why not just apt-mark manual it? William David Edwards > Op 30 jul 2025 om 19:30 heeft José Esteban het volgende > geschreven: > > I'I've written to sudo package maintainer, but he suggests me to > report that here and so I do. This is in my /var/log/apt/history.log: > > St

Please, don't let sudo be auto-removable

I'I've written to sudo package maintainer, but he suggests me to report that here and so I do. This is in my /var/log/apt/history.log: Start-Date: 2025-07-30 08:29:54 Commandline: apt-get purge cloud-guest-utils Requested-By: chafar (1000) Purge: cloud-guest-utils:amd64 (0.33-1) End-Date: 2025-0

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

sent contains o headers starting with List- and which include information on how to unsubscribe, get help, etc. o See also: o https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#subunsu o https://lists.debian.org/ If that still doesn't work for you, please provide: o The error diagnostic(s) (if a

Re: Please help me get out for my holiday break

Le 26/07/2025 à 17:58, Andy Smith a écrit : Hi, On Sat, Jul 26, 2025 at 05:41:38PM +0200, rudu wrote: Le 26/07/2025 à 14:37, Andy Smith a écrit : It looks okay. So guesses I have left are: a)r...@cegetel.net is not the actual address you are subscribed as. I already advised to check the

Re: Please help me get out for my holiday break

Hi, On Sat, Jul 26, 2025 at 05:41:38PM +0200, rudu wrote: > Le 26/07/2025 à 14:37, Andy Smith a écrit : > > It looks okay. So guesses I have left are: > > > > a) r...@cegetel.net is not the actual address you are subscribed as. I > > already advised to check the full headers of a piuece of li

Email envelope headers (was Re: Please help me get out for my holiday break)

On Sat, Jul 26, 2025 at 08:02:58 -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > (I'm not the OP) Oh, that's interesting -- I've always had trouble with the > term "Envelope" address, and looking at the headers in the email I'm replying > to, I see that the first header is "Delivered-To:" and > there > is

Re: Please help me get out for my holiday break

On Sat 26 Jul 2025 at 12:32:35 (+), Andy Smith wrote: > On Sat, Jul 26, 2025 at 08:02:58AM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > > (I'm not the OP) Oh, that's interesting -- I've always had trouble with the > > term "Envelope" address, and looking at the headers in the email I'm > > replying >

Re: Please help me get out for my holiday break

Hi, On Sat, Jul 26, 2025 at 11:56:58AM +0200, rudu wrote: > Yes the address I use is r...@cegetel.net, sorry for my imprecision. > > I join my first attempt to this mail. It looks okay. So guesses I have left are: a) r...@cegetel.net is not the actual address you are subscribed as. I already

Re: Please help me get out for my holiday break

Hi, On Sat, Jul 26, 2025 at 08:02:58AM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: > (I'm not the OP) Oh, that's interesting -- I've always had trouble with the > term "Envelope" address, and looking at the headers in the email I'm replying > to, I see that the first header is "Delivered-To:" and > there

Re: Please help me get out for my holiday break

(I'm not the OP) Oh, that's interesting -- I've always had trouble with the term "Envelope" address, and looking at the headers in the email I'm replying to, I see that the first header is "Delivered-To:" and there is no header labeled "Envelope". I'm guessing / assuming that is what's known a

Re: Please help me get out for my holiday break

Le 26/07/2025 à 02:16, Andy Smith a écrit : Hi, On Sat, Jul 26, 2025 at 01:34:31AM +0200, rudu wrote: I'm just trying to get a break from debian-user for a month. So I sent a mail with due subject to request as asked here : List-Unsubscribe:

Re: Please help me get out for my holiday break

Hi, On Sat, Jul 26, 2025 at 01:34:31AM +0200, rudu wrote: > I'm just trying to get a break from debian-user for a month. > So I sent a mail with due subject to request as asked here : > > List-Unsubscribe: This isn't a very verbose

Please help me get out for my holiday break

Hi I'm just trying to get a break from debian-user for a month. So I sent a mail with due subject to request as asked here : List-Unsubscribe: Nothing happened. So I went to https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ where I put my mail

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

James H. H. Lampert (HE12025-07-25): > Actually, no, it began breaking browsers when it tried to over-control them, > and began to depend on features that weren't universally implemented, > ignoring the principle of "graceful degradation," that was one of the > founding principles of the web. Yes,

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

On 7/25/25 11:24 AM, Nicolas George wrote: Remember the web? It started becoming usable for decent layout when it stopped applying this principle and trying to make something decent out of any soup of tags. Actually, no, it began breaking browsers when it tried to over-control them, and began

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

The Wanderer (HE12025-07-25): > It's actually a programming guideline: applications should do their best > to handle wide-ranging input (including malformed input) appropriately, > but should constrain themselves to only emitting strictly-defined and > well-formed output. And even in programming,

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

On 2025-07-25 at 13:07, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > On Fri, Jul 25, 2025 at 12:37 PM Greg wrote: > >> On 2025-07-21, Anders Andersson wrote: >> >>> At some point you have to stop pandering to the absolute lowest >>> common denominator. >> >> Postel's law: >> >> "Be liberal in what you accept, an

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

On 25 Jul 2025, at 18:08, Jeffrey Walton wrote:On Fri, Jul 25, 2025 at 12:37 PM Greg wrote:On 2025-07-21, Anders Andersson wrote: > > At some point you have to stop pandering to the absolute lowest common > denominator. Postel's law: "Be liberal in wha

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

On Fri, Jul 25, 2025 at 12:37 PM Greg wrote: > On 2025-07-21, Anders Andersson wrote: > > > > At some point you have to stop pandering to the absolute lowest common > > denominator. > > Postel's law: > > "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send. That's from a bygone er

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

On 2025-07-21, Anders Andersson wrote: > > At some point you have to stop pandering to the absolute lowest common > denominator. Postel's law: "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send."

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

On 2025-07-21 08:23, Anders Andersson wrote: It's bad enough with everyone's signature and people who quote them when replying. Your name is already in the header. It used to be possible to add custom headers to email messages but I've forgotten how to do it. mick

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

On Sun, Jul 20, 2025 at 11:53 AM Bret Busby wrote: > > On 20/7/25 17:37, Thomas Southerland wrote: > > > > On 7/20/25 5:21 AM, Mathew Alexander wrote: > >> Mathew Alexander > >> mat...@gmail.com > >> > >> > >> > >> WebRep > >> Overall rating > >> > >> WebRep > >> Overall rating > >> > > > > To uns

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

On Sun, Jul 20, 2025 at 11:09 PM Andy Smith wrote: > > On Sun, Jul 20, 2025 at 05:39:32PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > > Maybe the List-Unsubscribe header would help, > > . The list software can > > add it without worrying about breaking DKIM signat

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

Hi, On Sun, Jul 20, 2025 at 05:39:32PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > Maybe the List-Unsubscribe header would help, > . The list software can > add it without worrying about breaking DKIM signatures. > > A good user agent would display a UI widget to

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

On Sun, Jul 20, 2025 at 12:04 PM Andy Smith wrote: > > On Sun, Jul 20, 2025 at 05:48:01PM +0800, Bret Busby wrote: > > Perhaps, the List Administrators could find worthwhile, to add a footer to > > the mailing list messages, something like > > > > "To unsubscribe, change your subscription mode, or

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

On Sun, Jul 20, 2025 at 4:13 PM Bret Busby wrote: > > On 21/7/25 03:06, Lee wrote: > > > > > It's in the mail headers - which the 'please unsubscribe me' people > > don't know exists, > > "There are more things, in heaven and earth,

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

On 21/7/25 03:06, Lee wrote: It's in the mail headers - which the 'please unsubscribe me' people don't know exists, "There are more things, in heaven and earth, than man has ever dreamed of"... :) Not only the " 'please unsubscribe me' peopl

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

r your confirmation reply has been received. > > > > > Perhaps, the List Administrators could find worthwhile, to add a footer > to the mailing list messages, something like > > "To unsubscribe, change your subscription mode, or view the list > archive, see https://list

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

* On 2025 20 Jul 12:08 -0500, Nicolas George wrote: > Dan Purgert (HE12025-07-20): > > Sorry, I meant digital signatures. Mailing list messing with the body > > means that the signature is no longer valid. > > Strange, I have in my archives mails from that mailing-list that are > digitally signed

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

Dan Purgert (HE12025-07-20): > Sorry, I meant digital signatures. Mailing list messing with the body > means that the signature is no longer valid. Strange, I have in my archives mails from that mailing-list that are digitally signed, where a footer with unsubscribe instructions was added, and mu

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

On Jul 20, 2025, Nicolas George wrote: > Dan Purgert (HE12025-07-20): > > And it'd break signatures for those of us who use them. I *hated* yahoo > > groups (and, now, groups.io) for doing that. > > Can you explain what it means? I am subscribed to > a

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

Dan Purgert (HE12025-07-20): > And it'd break signatures for those of us who use them. I *hated* yahoo > groups (and, now, groups.io) for doing that. Can you explain what it means? I am subscribed to and I do not observe anything that looks like breaki

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

On Jul 20, 2025, Andy Smith wrote: > Hi, > > On Sun, Jul 20, 2025 at 05:48:01PM +0800, Bret Busby wrote: > > Perhaps, the List Administrators could find worthwhile, to add a footer to > > the mailing list messages, something like > > > > "To unsubscribe, change your subscription mode, or view the

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

Hi, On Sun, Jul 20, 2025 at 05:48:01PM +0800, Bret Busby wrote: > Perhaps, the List Administrators could find worthwhile, to add a footer to > the mailing list messages, something like > > "To unsubscribe, change your subscription mode, or view the list archive, > see https://lists.debian.org/deb

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

On 20/7/25 17:37, Thomas Southerland wrote: On 7/20/25 5:21 AM, Mathew Alexander wrote: Mathew Alexander mat...@gmail.com WebRep Overall rating WebRep Overall rating To unsubscribe from this list, send "unsubscribe" in the message subject to: -requ...@lists.debian.org and you will

Re: please delete me from your mailing lists

On 7/20/25 5:21 AM, Mathew Alexander wrote: Mathew Alexander mat...@gmail.com WebRep Overall rating WebRep Overall rating To unsubscribe from this list, send "unsubscribe" in the message subject to: -requ...@lists.debian.org and you will be removed after your confirmation reply h

please delete me from your mailing lists

Mathew Alexander mat...@gmail.com WebRep Overall rating WebRep Overall rating

Please, double-check the URLs you post [was: SDD partitioning and allocations]

> On Wed, Jul 16, 2025 at 04:31:08PM -, Greg wrote: [...] > > https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/12/12/5928?utm_source=chatgpt.com ^^^ The above URL works *without* that pesky query string. Why do you have to promote that sleazy or

Re: Using MUAs to bounce mail (was: Please, don't reply to spam ...)

Ralph Aichinger (HE12025-06-29): > Nothing related to spam or server-side bouncing, or maybe even to the > intended purpose of bouncing, but I absolutely love bouncing mails > in mutt instead of forwarding. I need some mail on the address > I use on my mobile: Just bounce it. I only do this to my

Re: Using MUAs to bounce mail (was: Please, don't reply to spam ...)

On Sun, Jun 29, 2025 at 10:47:43AM +, Andy Smith wrote: > Hi, > > On Sun, Jun 29, 2025 at 11:55:56AM +0200, Ralph Aichinger wrote: > > I absolutely love bouncing mails in mutt instead of forwarding. I need > > some mail on the address I use on my mobile: Just bounce it. I only do > > this to m

Re: Using MUAs to bounce mail (was: Please, don't reply to spam ...)

Hi, On Sun, Jun 29, 2025 at 11:55:56AM +0200, Ralph Aichinger wrote: > I absolutely love bouncing mails in mutt instead of forwarding. I need > some mail on the address I use on my mobile: Just bounce it. I only do > this to my own mail addresses. > > Am I alone in this use case of bounces? Or is

Using MUAs to bounce mail (was: Please, don't reply to spam ...)

On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 10:58:54AM +0900, John Crawley wrote: > I think "bouncing" is something that should really be done on a > server, not by a user email agent, even a "good" one. Nothing related to spam or server-side bouncing, or maybe even to the intended purpose of bouncing, but I absolut

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list

to...@tuxteam.de (HE12025-06-28): > MUA "bounce" is not exactly the same (the user has a chance to > specify *which* address to send the bounce to, for one), but > technically so close (as much of the headers as possible remains > unchanged), that calling it a bounce does make sense. This is not a

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list

On Sat, Jun 28, 2025 at 11:52:33AM +0200, Stephan Seitz wrote: > Am Sa, Jun 28, 2025 at 10:11:09 +0900 schrieb John Crawley: > > > It is not the accepted meaning of the term. > > > https://github.com/mjg59/jargon/blob/master/bounce > > Mutt seems to have its own set of definitions which mutt users

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list

Am Sa, Jun 28, 2025 at 10:11:09 +0900 schrieb John Crawley: It is not the accepted meaning of the term. https://github.com/mjg59/jargon/blob/master/bounce Mutt seems to have its own set of definitions which mutt users will need to grasp. I can assure you that mutt’s meaning of bounce is older

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On 27/06/2025 23:46, Greg wrote: On 2025-06-27, Greg Wooledge wrote: Bounce can and does mean a rejection of the email by the *server*, so your proposal seems nonsensical or confusing, as the email has already been delivered to its recipients. I am not proposing anything. I am *explaining*.

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On 27/06/2025 17:44, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 05:04:14PM +0900, John Crawley wrote: BTW why does your message here have my email address as To:, and CC: to the list, even though I had no Reply-to: header in the message you are replying to? Because I replied using "group

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list

On Fri, 27 Jun 2025 16:43:00 +0200 Nicolas George wrote: > Do people our age need explaining that words can have multiple > meanings, especially technical words used in different fields? Hear, hear. Especially after this thread has shown exactly that to a fault. -- Does anybody read signatures

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 10:47 AM Greg wrote: > > On 2025-06-27, Greg Wooledge wrote: > >> > >> Bounce can and does mean a rejection of the email by the *server*, so > >> your proposal seems nonsensical or confusing, as the email has > >> already been delivered to its recipients. > > > > I am not

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

Greg (HE12025-06-27): > It is not the accepted meaning of the term. Did you not already tell that? Was not Greg Wooledge precisely replying to that? -- Nicolas George

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On 2025-06-27, Greg Wooledge wrote: >> >> Bounce can and does mean a rejection of the email by the *server*, so >> your proposal seems nonsensical or confusing, as the email has >> already been delivered to its recipients. > > I am not proposing anything. I am *explaining*. > > This is the termi

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list

Greg (HE12025-06-27): > What is a Bounce Email? Definition: A bounce email is an email that has > not been delivered to its recipient. It is sent back to the sender with > an error message. > > https://www.altospam.com/en/glossary/bounce/ Do people our age need explaining that not everything

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 13:46:40 -, Greg wrote: > On 2025-06-27, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > > To be clear, what we're talking about here is what mutt does when you > > press the "b" key. It queues up a message for delivery, where the > > Bounce can and does mean a rejection of the email by t

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list

On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 02:19:22PM -, Greg wrote: > What is a Bounce Email? Definition: A bounce email is an email that has > not been delivered to its recipient. It is sent back to the sender with > an error message. > > https://www.altospam.com/en/glossary/bounce/ The word "bounce" in

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list

On 2025-06-27, Nicolas George wrote: > Greg (HE12025-06-27): >> Bounce can and does mean a rejection of the email by the *server* > > No, that is not accurate. Server rejecting a mail and server bouncing a > mail are different mechanism. What is a Bounce Email? Definition: A bounce email is an

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list

Greg (HE12025-06-27): > Bounce can and does mean a rejection of the email by the *server* No, that is not accurate. Server rejecting a mail and server bouncing a mail are different mechanism. The server rejects the mail by returning an error code at SMTP level. No bounce is generated. If the ser

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On 2025-06-27, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > To be clear, what we're talking about here is what mutt does when you > press the "b" key. It queues up a message for delivery, where the Bounce can and does mean a rejection of the email by the *server*, so your proposal seems nonsensical or confusing, as

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 05:04:14PM +0900, John Crawley wrote: [...] > I may be wrong here but my understanding of "bounce" is that the software > responsible for delivering a message (what I referred to as the "server") > decides not to deliver it, and sends it back to the original address. So

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On 27/06/2025 16:13, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 10:58:54AM +0900, John Crawley wrote: [...] I think "bouncing" is something that should really be done on a server, not by a user email agent, even a "good" one. Why do you think so? At least I gave a reason why bouncing

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 10:58:54AM +0900, John Crawley wrote: [...] > I think "bouncing" is something that should really be done on a server, not > by a user email agent, even a "good" one. Why do you think so? At least I gave a reason why bouncing from the MUA makes sense, and another for why

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

So when do you plan to stop replying??? On 6/26/2025 6:58 PM, John Crawley wrote: On 26/06/2025 01:00, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 03:18:05PM -, Greg wrote: On 2025-06-24, Greg Wooledge wrote: This like sounds like good and important advice, but how do you "bounce

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 12:09 AM John Crawley wrote: > > On 26/06/2025 01:00, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 03:18:05PM -, Greg wrote: > >> On 2025-06-24, Greg Wooledge wrote: > >>> > This like sounds like good and important advice, but how do you "bounce > the

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On Thu, Jun 26, 2025 at 11:29:23PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 10:58:54 +0900, John Crawley wrote: > > The Debian Wiki has these suggestions for how to deal with spam: > > https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ListMaster/ListArchiveSpam#nominate > > The fourth option there says:

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2025 at 10:58:54 +0900, John Crawley wrote: > The Debian Wiki has these suggestions for how to deal with spam: > https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ListMaster/ListArchiveSpam#nominate The fourth option there says: * Use your mail client's bounce/resend/redirect functionality to send

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On 26/06/2025 01:00, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 03:18:05PM -, Greg wrote: On 2025-06-24, Greg Wooledge wrote: This like sounds like good and important advice, but how do you "bounce the original message"? By using the "bounce" feature of your MUA. Only good ones h

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On 2025-06-24, Greg Wooledge wrote: > >> This like sounds like good and important advice, but how do you "bounce the >> original message"? > > By using the "bounce" feature of your MUA. Only good ones have it. > >> Does that mean forward the message to the report-listspam? > > No. Forwarding an

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2025 at 03:18:05PM -, Greg wrote: > On 2025-06-24, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > >> This like sounds like good and important advice, but how do you "bounce the > >> original message"? > > > > By using the "bounce" feature of your MUA. Only good ones have it. > > > >> Does that me

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 05:44:11PM -0700, Dan Hitt wrote: > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 4:50 PM Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 16:33:38 -0700, Dan Hitt wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 3:09 AM wrote: > > > > if you want to do everyone a favour, you bounce the original message

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 4:50 PM Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 16:33:38 -0700, Dan Hitt wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 3:09 AM wrote: > > > if you want to do everyone a favour, you bounce the original message > > > to to help the list spam team train > > > their filters (I d

Re: Please, don't reply to spam -- much less on list [was: ግěcůžላኣዝዩ]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 16:33:38 -0700, Dan Hitt wrote: > On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 3:09 AM wrote: > > if you want to do everyone a favour, you bounce the original message > > to to help the list spam team train > > their filters (I did). > This like sounds like good and important advice, but how

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