On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:03:52 +1200
Joel Peter William Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am confused however, since I'm reasonably sure I haven't tinkered with my
> Xauthority files - ie they are the debian default - and yet synaptic has no
> problem running from su.
Running startx from a text l
Steve Lamb wrote:
> Would you then agree that the supposed benefits of sudo in a single-user
> environment are far outweighed by the troubles of trying to wrangle people
> into using it instead of just teaching them good habits (regardless of tools)
> and getting them working.
Y'know what,
Steve Lamb wrote:
>Would you then agree that the supposed benefits of sudo in a single-user
>environment are far outweighed by the troubles of trying to wrangle people
>into using it instead of just teaching them good habits (regardless of tools)
>and getting them working.
>
I really don't hav
James Vahn wrote:
> There's a package everyone should have installed- it's called dwww. It
> gathers up all the system docs and makes them very much available via
> web browser: http://localhost/dwww
Uhm, what's wrong with:
file:///usr/share/doc/
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm you
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:36:18 -0700
James Vahn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Albert wrote:
[snip]
>
> Still reading this thread, Albert? Put this into a web
> browser's URL box and read about Debian's menus:
> file:/usr/share/doc/menu/html/index.html
>
> There's a package everyone
Albert wrote:
> I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is
> to install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or
> 1.0.7. It's a piece of cake to download and install these from
> the mozilla site, but I have no idea how I might then wrap them
> with an icon and
Kent West wrote:
> The original claim was that sudo provides no benefit on a single-user
> machine.
Correct.
> We both seem to agree that sudo provides logging.
Correct.
> You claim that you don't need logging on a single-user machine, because
> you know what you (the single-user admin)
Kent West wrote:
> But this is a benefit of being root; it is not an argument in support of
> the claim that there is no benefit to sudo.
No benefit for a single-user machine where the sole user is the de facto
administrator. I made a specific statemeny, please when paraphrasing it do so
in i
Kent West wrote:
> I'm forever needing to know when I did something. Usually not to fix a
> problem, but to build a context from which I can remember something
> else. ("Let's see, I know I paid the electric bill online the same day I
> installed "starvoyager"; when was that?" as a trivial and hypo
Kent West wrote:
> Steve Lamb wrote:
> /usr/bin/synaptic, at least on my box.
> (Granted, I don't use synaptic, but the point is that some X apps
> require root; this is just an example.)
>> I've yet to see an X app that needs me to have root. Chances are if such
>>a beast exists I don't need i
Steve Lamb wrote:
Angelo Bertolli wrote:
Well I like the benefit of typing one line. In debian, being in the
group sudo allows you to skip using a password. So to me there's a
benefit over: typing su, typing root's password, typing my command,
exiting.
I like the benefit of not
Steve Lamb wrote:
>Kent West wrote:
>
>
>>So, I'm confused. Are you saying that the logging capability of sudo
>>provides a benefit on a single-user machine (my claim), or not (the
>>original claim)?
>>
>>
>
>I pointed out that sudo provides logging. You got into the semantics of
>loggi
Kent West wrote:
> I'd rather have a consistent habit across the machines.
Key words, consistent habit. The habit is the important part, not how it
is achieved. I have the same habit with su.
> Which implies that you're firing up an xterm, "su"ing and doing your
> command, then exiting out
Ron Johnson wrote:
>>From an xterm:
> $ su -m
>
>Then you can run /usr/sbin/synaptic from a # prompt in a
>user's xterm.
>
>
>
>
Ah, okay. That's good, and decreases the benefit of sudo for me.
(And thanks for quietly correcting my typo of "bin" to "sbin".)
--
Kent
--
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On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:28:47 -0500
Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Steve Lamb wrote:
>
> >Kent West wrote:
> >
> >
> >>And when you need to run an X app? Ah, gotta muck around
> >>with Xauthority files now.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I've yet to see an X app that needs me to have root.
> >
Steve Lamb wrote:
>I like the benefit of not having to worry about permissions on certain
>directories getting in my way when I am looking for information. For example..
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/log} cd exim4
>cd: permission denied: exim4
>
>
>
This is so true.
But this is a benefit of be
Steve Lamb wrote:
>Kent West wrote:
>
>
>>Unless you need to know two days after the fact, when you've forgotten
>>when you did what when.
>>
>>
>
>Why would I need to know what I did and when I did it? If something is
>broken the path is clear... fix it!
>
>
>
Wow. We must have total
Steve Lamb wrote:
>Kent West wrote:
>
>
>>And when you need to run an X app? Ah, gotta muck around with Xauthority
>>files now.
>>
>>
>
>I've yet to see an X app that needs me to have root. Chances are if such
>a beast exists I don't need it.
>
>
/usr/bin/synaptic, at least on my box.
Steve Lamb wrote:
>Kent West wrote:
>
>
>>1. Training oneself not to run things as root is one benefit of sudo, so
>>that you don't mess up when you go to another machine.
>>
>>
>
>One presumes when you go to another machine you won't have root.
>
Hmm; I've got two machines here in the h
Joel Peter William Pitt wrote:
> I am confused however, since I'm reasonably sure I haven't tinkered
> with my Xauthority files - ie they are the debian default - and yet
> synaptic has no problem running from su.
>
> -Joel
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/westk> su -
> Password:
> westk03:~# synaptic
Angelo Bertolli wrote:
> Well I like the benefit of typing one line. In debian, being in the
> group sudo allows you to skip using a password. So to me there's a
> benefit over: typing su, typing root's password, typing my command,
> exiting.
I like the benefit of not having to worry about
Kent West wrote:
> Unless you need to know two days after the fact, when you've forgotten
> when you did what when.
Why would I need to know what I did and when I did it? If something is
broken the path is clear... fix it!
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink
Kent West wrote:
> And when you need to run an X app? Ah, gotta muck around with Xauthority
> files now.
I've yet to see an X app that needs me to have root. Chances are if such
a beast exists I don't need it.
> And when you've got several xterms open, and only one of which is logged
> in as
Kent West wrote:
> 1. Training oneself not to run things as root is one benefit of sudo, so
> that you don't mess up when you go to another machine.
One presumes when you go to another machine you won't have root. Training
oneself to not run things as root is not a benefit of sudo, it is a be
On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 23:54:18 -0500
Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ron Johnson wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:29:09 +1200
> >Joel Peter William Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>On 9/26/05, Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Steve Lamb wrote:
> >>>
On 9/26/05, Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Joel Peter William Pitt wrote:>> 2. Not logging into X as root is another benefit. Running a single X> client/app as root is different than running all of X as root.>>> You can run su within a terminal in X, no one mentioned anything about
>
Steve Lamb wrote:
Stephen R Laniel wrote:
But he *does* want to mess with sudo. Sudo is a much safer
tool than logging in as root, for reasons that have been
done to death on any number of Linux lists.
On a single user machine or for when the person who is pretty much the
de facto
Joel Peter William Pitt wrote:
>
> 2. Not logging into X as root is another benefit. Running a single X
> client/app as root is different than running all of X as root.
>
>
> You can run su within a terminal in X, no one mentioned anything about
> running X as root. That's an aside from w
Ron Johnson wrote:
>On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:29:09 +1200
>Joel Peter William Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>On 9/26/05, Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Steve Lamb wrote:
>>>
>>>
>[snip]
>
>
>>2. Not logging into X as root is another benefit. Running a
>>single X
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:29:09 +1200
Joel Peter William Pitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 9/26/05, Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Steve Lamb wrote:
[snip]
> 2. Not logging into X as root is another benefit. Running a
> single X
> > client/app as root is different than running all o
On 9/26/05, Kent West <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Steve Lamb wrote:> On a single user machine or for when the person who is pretty much the>>de facto administrator and they know to just su root, run the command and get>the hell out of dodge there is *NO* benefit of sudo.
>1. Training oneself not to
Steve Lamb wrote:
> On a single user machine or for when the person who is pretty much the
>
>de facto administrator and they know to just su root, run the command and get
>the hell out of dodge there is *NO* benefit of sudo.
>
1. Training oneself not to run things as root is one benefit of sudo,
Stephen R Laniel wrote:
> But he *does* want to mess with sudo. Sudo is a much safer
> tool than logging in as root, for reasons that have been
> done to death on any number of Linux lists.
On a single user machine or for when the person who is pretty much the
de facto administrator and they k
Stephen R Laniel wrote:
> I don't know why they were telling you to do
>
> dpkg -i | --install
>
> -i and --install are the same argument to dpkg. In other
> words,
You just answered why when you realize that pipe symbol (|) in most
programming languages is used for logical or.
dpkg -i | --
michael wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 09:19 -0500, Albert wrote:
>>Oh, my. I've encountered the newbie police. I find it extremely
>>humorous that someone on Debian, which hides the complexities of Linux,
> maybe I missed it, but I've not heard that claim before
And yet you use it all the
Antony Gelberg wrote:
> True, but I didn't say RTFM, I was civil and informative. I think if we
> breastfeed, we should point to the manual as well. Otherwise people
> aren't really learning anything.
But they are. "Hey, what's this aptitude thingy..."
--
Steve C. Lamb |
On Saturday 24 September 2005 07:11 am, Albert wrote:
> Thank you for an informative, but unnecessary, HOW-TO,
No problem. Though I question it being unnecessary, the next person to ask
the question will find it in the archives from Google if they want their
question answered quickly.
> thoug
On 9/24/05, Albert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thank you for an informative, but unnecessary, HOW-TO, though I
> don't know what 'basics' you think I should start with. My
> primary working distro for several years has been LFS, and my
> 'Linux experience' has been delightful. BTW, the Firefox
Stephen R Laniel wrote:
On Sat, Sep 24, 2005 at 09:11:04AM -0500, Albert wrote:
'Linux experience' has been delightful. BTW, the Firefox and
Thunderbird binaries are pretty much self-contained with no
unusual dependencies.
Maybe they're not 'unusual' dependencies, but they're by no
means s
Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
Albert wrote:
Albert wrote:
I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is to
install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or 1.0.7.
It's a piece of cake to download and install these from the mozilla
site, but I have no idea how I might
Paul Johnson wrote:
On Friday 23 September 2005 05:58 am, Albert wrote:
I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is
to install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or
1.0.7. It's a piece of cake to download and install these from
the mozilla site, but I have no
On Sat, Sep 24, 2005 at 09:11:04AM -0500, Albert wrote:
> 'Linux experience' has been delightful. BTW, the Firefox and
> Thunderbird binaries are pretty much self-contained with no
> unusual dependencies.
Maybe they're not 'unusual' dependencies, but they're by no
means self-contained. Here are
Paul Johnson wrote:
On Friday 23 September 2005 05:58 am, Albert wrote:
I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is
to install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or
1.0.7. It's a piece of cake to download and install these from
the mozilla site, but I have no
Albert wrote:
Albert wrote:
I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is to
install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or 1.0.7. It's
a piece of cake to download and install these from the mozilla site,
but I have no idea how I might then wrap them with an ic
Paul Johnson wrote:
On Friday 23 September 2005 07:36 am, Albert wrote:
kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:
While I agree that it is kinda spoon feeding, RTFM is generally not
encouraged on this list. My take on this is that give the newbie a head
start and he will pick the ropes much faster. Debian
On Friday 23 September 2005 07:54 pm, Pollywog wrote:
> Maybe I am doing something wrong ;)
Or you have a short attention span. :o) When I'm at work, I've become so
accustomed to KDE that Windows is painful to use, largely due to the lack of
Konqueror and Kontact. Explorer's a buggy, insecure
On 09/24/2005 02:43 am, Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Friday 23 September 2005 07:14 am, Fritz Brown wrote:
> > > Please read the Debian Reference. One of the main reasons to use
> > > Debian is to use software packaged from Debian repositories rather than
> > > downloading generic binaries and source.
On Friday 23 September 2005 07:14 am, Fritz Brown wrote:
> > Please read the Debian Reference. One of the main reasons to use Debian
> > is to use software packaged from Debian repositories rather than
> > downloading generic binaries and source.
>
> Which may explain why I am having trouble under
On Friday 23 September 2005 08:23 am, Antony Gelberg wrote:
> Albert wrote:
> > michael wrote:
> >
> >
> >> and insults don't generally inspire people to respond in a helpful
> >> manner, but then you prob knew that already ;)
> >
> > Insults? I only responded in kind to Antony, who believes answ
On Friday 23 September 2005 07:36 am, Albert wrote:
> kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:
>
>
> > While I agree that it is kinda spoon feeding, RTFM is generally not
> > encouraged on this list. My take on this is that give the newbie a head
> > start and he will pick the ropes much faster. Debian already
On Friday 23 September 2005 06:44 am, root wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 14:09 +0100, Antony Gelberg wrote:
> > Albert wrote:
> > > I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is to
> > > install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or 1.0.7. It's
> > > a piece of cak
On Friday 23 September 2005 05:58 am, Albert wrote:
> I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is
> to install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or
> 1.0.7. It's a piece of cake to download and install these from
> the mozilla site, but I have no idea how I might
Antony Gelberg wrote:
Angelo Bertolli wrote:
Albert wrote:
michael wrote:
and insults don't generally inspire people to respond in a helpful
manner, but then you prob knew that already ;)
Insults? I only responded in kind to Antony, who believes answering a
newbi
Stephen R Laniel wrote:
On Fri, Sep 23, 2005 at 10:36:02PM +0500, Fritz Brown wrote:
I was logged into the system as root, and opened an xterm, then tried dpkg. That should
work, if I ignore that "--install" stuff?
I don't know why they were telling you to do
dpkg -i | --install
-
On Fri, Sep 23, 2005 at 10:36:02PM +0500, Fritz Brown wrote:
> I was logged into the system as root, and opened an xterm, then tried dpkg.
> That should work, if I ignore that "--install" stuff?
I don't know why they were telling you to do
dpkg -i | --install
-i and --install are the same argu
On Fri, Sep 23, 2005 at 10:09:19AM -0700, Chris Martin wrote:
> Yes. So you should be able to login as root (su), and perform
> dpkg -i package.deb
>
> if you don't want to mess with sudo
But he *does* want to mess with sudo. Sudo is a much safer
tool than logging in as root, for reasons that hav
>
> Yes. So you should be able to login as root (su), and perform
> dpkg -i package.deb
>
> if you don't want to mess with sudo
>
I was logged into the system as root, and opened an xterm, then tried dpkg.
That should work, if I ignore that "--install" stuff?
Fritz
--
_
Albert wrote:
I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is to
install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or 1.0.7. It's a
piece of cake to download and install these from the mozilla site, but I
have no idea how I might then wrap them with an icon and to get th
On 9/23/05, Antony Gelberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Fritz Brown wrote:
> >>You need to run
> >>
> >>sudo dpkg -i [whatever it is].deb
> >>
> >
> > Aaaahh. Will try that. Everything else had me doing a dpkg -i | --install
> > [whatever].deb. And, it really didn't like that "| --install" part
On 9/23/05, Antony Gelberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Angelo Bertolli wrote:
> > Albert wrote:
> >
> >> michael wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> and insults don't generally inspire people to respond in a helpful
> >>> manner, but then you prob knew that already ;)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Insults? I only resp
michael wrote:
On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 09:19 -0500, Albert wrote:
Antony Gelberg wrote:
Joseph Haig wrote:
--- Albert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
struts around mocking newcomers to Debian as if they were newcomers to
Linux. For the record, bonehead,
and insults don't generally inspir
On Fri, Sep 23, 2005 at 07:58:12AM -0500, Albert wrote:
> I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is to install
> Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or 1.0.7. It's a piece of
> cake
> to download and install these from the mozilla site, but I have no idea how
Brad Sawatzky wrote:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005, Albert wrote:
Antony Gelberg wrote:
I don't think there was any need for a personal insult, just because you
didn't read the documentation, which, especially if you are so
experienced with Linux, you should have thought read.
In your origina
On Fri, 23 Sep 2005, Albert wrote:
> Antony Gelberg wrote:
>
> >I don't think there was any need for a personal insult, just because you
> >didn't read the documentation, which, especially if you are so
> >experienced with Linux, you should have thought read.
> >
> >In your original post, you ask
Antony Gelberg wrote:
I don't think there was any need for a personal insult, just because you
didn't read the documentation, which, especially if you are so
experienced with Linux, you should have thought read.
In your original post, you asked to be pointed to the appropriate
documentation. Y
Albert wrote:
michael wrote:
and insults don't generally inspire people to respond in a helpful
manner, but then you prob knew that already ;)
Insults? I only responded in kind to Antony, who believes answering a
newbie question is 'breast feeding'.
Please, not in front of the kids.
W
michael wrote:
and insults don't generally inspire people to respond in a helpful
manner, but then you prob knew that already ;)
Insults? I only responded in kind to Antony, who believes
answering a newbie question is 'breast feeding'.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a
>
> You need to run
>
> sudo dpkg -i [whatever it is].deb
>
Aaaahh. Will try that. Everything else had me doing a dpkg -i | --install
[whatever].deb. And, it really didn't like that "| --install" part.
(Running Woody till I get this thing as a going concern. Then I will upgrade.)
Fritz
-
>
> I see only old versions of firefox and tbird. I want 1.0.6, not 1.0.2.
>
You probably want to go with 1.0.7, as there are a couple of major security
issues fixed.
--
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On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 09:19 -0500, Albert wrote:
> Antony Gelberg wrote:
> > Joseph Haig wrote:
> >
> >>--- Albert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is
> >>>to install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or
>
On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 09:27 -0500, Albert wrote:
> michael wrote:
>
> > I presume you've checked out the diff between stable and unstable?
> >
> I presume you are not going to answer my question.
Well well...
I was trying to be helpful but if all you want is answers to your
original questions,
kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:
While I agree that it is kinda spoon feeding, RTFM is generally not
encouraged on this list. My take on this is that give the newbie a head
start and he will pick the ropes much faster. Debian already suffers the
image of being unfriendly to newbies and we should at
michael wrote:
I presume you've checked out the diff between stable and unstable?
I presume you are not going to answer my question.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
root wrote:
On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 09:11 -0400, kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:
Albert wrote:
I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is to
install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or 1.0.7. It's
a piece of cake to download and install these from the m
On Fri, Sep 23, 2005 at 07:14:20PM +0500, Fritz Brown wrote:
> Which may explain why I am having trouble understanding how to install Opera.
> I got a .deb of the latest version, and am trying to follow the instructions
> on various websites concerning dpkg, and I keep getting messages that I ma
Antony Gelberg wrote:
Joseph Haig wrote:
--- Albert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is
to install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or
1.0.7. It's a piece of cake to download and install these from
the mozilla site, b
>
> Please read the Debian Reference. One of the main reasons to use Debian
> is to use software packaged from Debian repositories rather than
> downloading generic binaries and source.
>
>
Which may explain why I am having trouble understanding how to install Opera.
I got a .deb of the lates
On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 08:44 -0500, root wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 14:09 +0100, Antony Gelberg wrote:
> > Albert wrote:
> > > I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is to
> > > install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or 1.0.7. It's a
> > > piece of cake t
Antony Gelberg wrote:
Joseph Haig wrote:
--- Albert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is
to install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or
1.0.7. It's a piece of cake to download and install these from
the mozilla
On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 14:09 +0100, Antony Gelberg wrote:
> Albert wrote:
> > I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is to
> > install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or 1.0.7. It's a
> > piece of cake to download and install these from the mozilla site, but I
On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 09:11 -0400, kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:
> Albert wrote:
>
> > I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is to
> > install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or 1.0.7. It's
> > a piece of cake to download and install these from the mozilla s
Albert wrote:
I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is to
install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or 1.0.7. It's
a piece of cake to download and install these from the mozilla site,
but I have no idea how I might then wrap them with an icon and to get
--- Albert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is
> to install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or
> 1.0.7. It's a piece of cake to download and install these from
> the mozilla site, but I have no idea how I might then wrap
I am a new user of Debian. My first task after system install is
to install Firefox and Tbird, preferably the latest 1.0.6 or
1.0.7. It's a piece of cake to download and install these from
the mozilla site, but I have no idea how I might then wrap them
with an icon and to get them to show in
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