o I don't see any
justification for making this change and would like to see it reverted.
Has the auditors requested this change? There's nothing in the DPL log
about it.
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ver take more
than three days, then? (It also takes way more than 30 minutes for me
at least to mail anything using snail mail, since that means a trip to
the post office.)
I think you're addressing the wrong problem here.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about
xcepting myself from
> that judgement.
>
> But we should strive to be.
I sure hope we are. It won't be easy, but I think we are. If I didn't,
I'd not have been here still.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
--
T
]] Matthias Urlichs
> Hi,
>
> Tollef Fog Heen:
> > Matthias Urlichs
> > > Too true. This GR does not have winners. We all lost.
> >
> > No, we all won. We won because we said that «we have processes for
> > this».
>
> We do have processes fo
lowed some of the -vote discussions around this from the
web archives).
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]] Philip Hands
> Tollef Fog Heen writes:
>
> > ]] Stefano Zacchiroli
> >
> >> I'm hereby formally submitting the GR proposal included below between
> >> dashed double lines, and calling for seconds. With respect to past
> >> discussions on
want to have two
applications that both want foo.jar installed, but different versions
(since they need different APIs or different bug compatibility), we
don't support that well. For C libraries, there are sonames and all,
but those largely doesn't exist for other languages and fixing
]] Keith Packard
> Tollef Fog Heen writes:
>
> > This means that if you use system packages and want to have two
> > applications that both want foo.jar installed, but different versions
> > (since they need different APIs or different bug compatibility), we
> > d
ing
access? I don't think we do, and if we did, we'd have no volunteers able
to get past the threshold.
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]]
> Здравствуйте, Debian-project.
>
> Support for Debian Yubico key ?
Yes, a bunch of the Yubikey software is packaged in Debian.
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wik, as well as using ETags, whose principal
usage today is tracking.)
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ed
«Depends»?
> It's important that these allocations are permanent as far as
> possible, so it's important to get this right.
Assuming we use HTTP for this, HTTP redirects are a thing, so we can
always move stuff around if we need to.
--
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UNIX is user friendly,
e global internet,
since you often (relatively) end up with BGP reconvergences leading you
to hit a different server, which causes the current problems. For this,
just doing anycast for the DNS servers is better (since it's mostly UDP
(and the rest is short-lived TCP) and therefore not subject
ty-and-technology-compliance#cache-data-and-end-user-information-management
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
v6.deb.d.o for v6 support.
It's not the default since too many users ended up in suboptimal places.
Once that's fixed, I'm going to flip the switch back again.
Cheers,
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
ne (and it isn't), we should be more clear about that.
I haven't seen anybody advocating throwing away our stable release
process. So far it's mostly pointing out problems, not yet trying to
come up with solutions. (Which is fine, we need to find out what the
problems and the pain points are before it's useful to come up with
solutions.)
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
-maint on alioth +
Maintainer: collect...@debian.org or somesuch?) That'd move closer to a
model where individuals don't own that particular package.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
them and discuss with
them, I find we usually end up agreeing.
The goal is not to end up with a new maintainer. Deposing a maintainer
or overriding them is sometimes a necessary evil, but it's never my
first option.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
]] Ian Jackson
> That is 6+ weeks' more stop-energy. 6+ weeks' more inaction. 6+
> weeks during which members of the TC have been prevaricating.
What are you accusing the TC of lying about?
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
's not what meant by "prevaricate". I asked #chiark about the
> meaning of the word and they said:
They might want to consult a dictionary then,
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/prevaricate:
verb (used without object), prevaricated, prevaricating.
1. to speak falsely or misl
]] Philip Hands
> Tollef Fog Heen writes:
>
> > ]] Ian Jackson
> >
> >> That is 6+ weeks' more stop-energy. 6+ weeks' more inaction. 6+
> >> weeks during which members of the TC have been prevaricating.
> >
> > What are you accusin
]] Ian Jackson
> Tollef Fog Heen writes ("Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers [and
> 1 more messages]"):
> Lars Wirzenius
> > > I suggest a lighter approach than a GR for eroding the strong package
> > > ownership further is to start
]] Ian Jackson
There's no need to Cc me on replies, I'm subscribed already.
> Tollef Fog Heen writes ("Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers"):
> > Because I generally find it's generally the wrong tool for the job. If
> > I can come up with a
n't think that's how the process ought to look.
> I still (perhaps, even more so) believe we need to have a better way
> of dealing with these kind of disputes.
That I agree with.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
#x27;d need to
track a lot of different firmware versions and so on. It's not
something we want.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
interest at that point.
I agree with this, if you do see a possible and reasonable conflict of
interest, declare it and discuss it.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
]] Ian Jackson
> Tollef Fog Heen writes ("Re: Debian contributor Register of Interests"):
> > Indeed. I also think there's a hang-up about financial conflicts of
> > interest in the discussion, but for at least me (and I suspect others),
> > money is a pret
uiring non-free software, you don't need
> to have a fully free CPU design, just one where the microcode is
> free. And I believe that current POWER CPUs fall under that
> category. (I may be wrong though.)
Doesn't help if it's not packaged in Debian, though.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
]] Christian Seiler
> Hi,
>
> I don't have anything useful to add to your other comments, but:
>
> On 08/12/2017 02:11 PM, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > ]] Christian Seiler
> >>> [free CPU designs]
> >>> (although I'm sure there are...)
>
nd it's their emotional well-being I want
to protect at the same time as making good technical decisions. It's
really, really hard, for many of the reasons listed in this thread.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
withdrawn if the emeritus
> member continued to advertise their @d.o address, or if they did
> something sufficiently bad that we would want to disassociate
> ourselves from them more completely.
I don't think we're in a position where we would be able to effectively
police this, and so I
]] Ondřej Surý
> On Fri, Nov 17, 2017, at 23:01, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > ]] Ian Jackson
> >
> > > I think that, with some safeguards[1], this would be a good thing to
> > > offer people. If nothing else people have often used @d.o addresses
> > > i
updates that close remote holes.
>
> And how do we know they aren't opening new ones due to the same factors
> (bad design or bad intent) that led to the originals?
This argument can be applied to any bug fix we or an upstream does, but
that doesn't mean we avoid shipping updated so
ething else) are free to do so.
[…]
> Also are either not all CTTE´s are announced on debian-devel-announce or is
> [CTTE #741573] Debian Menu System from September 2015 really the last
> technical decision of the CTTE?
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2017/07/msg6.html
gt; a shiny front-end.
The Prometheus UI is fine for debugging queries and such, but it's far
away from Grafana when used interactively. I'd be very happy if we
managed to get a newer version into Debian.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
a when used interactively. I'd be very happy if we
> > managed to get a newer version into Debian.
>
> Yeah, me too. I hope to be able to start working on it soon, but it is
> not going to be trivial with the heaps of javascript dependencies it has.
I know. :-(
--
Tollef Fo
* Tollef Fog Heen
* Helen Koike
* Philipp Hahn
* Julien Cristau [remote]
* Steve McIntyre [remote]
We had a long discussion about what requirements we had for the
signing process, whether that could happen inline in the regular build
process, if a human needed to be involved in the signing and how to
.
Not any more than sbuild, buildd and wanna-build is part of the source
for buildd-signed packages in the archive, so my initial answer is no.
That said, it would be trivial to package, so somebody could easily
upload it to the archive.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
ows us to both keep the key in a central place, having
reproducible builds, having an automated process and not having to
execute any code from the template package as part of the build.
I hope this explains it well enough, let me know if there's anything
unclear, I'm happy to explai
t I have the aotec z-wave stick and it
works fine with other zigwave equipment. (I'm using home-assistant to
drive everything, I don't think that's particularly important, it just
uses the python libs.)
Cheers,
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
e): Ian was not chair of the TC at the time. Bdale was
(and he did not resign, his term expired on December 31st 2015).
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
hat Debian would end up with *less* resources
> than we have now, if other volunteers feel the same way.
Well said, and I feel the same way.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
]] Steve McIntyre
> On Sat, Jun 01, 2019 at 12:29:04PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>
> >This is a hugely important point: we're already seeing conflicts where
> >people conflate the paid-for LTS effort with other team's priorities.
> >If we move that funding c
his would also increase coupling,
something we already have a problem with, and which is considered a bad
idea in software development.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
e they eventually pass away, and that's ok.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
]] John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
> Hello!
>
> On 9/28/19 3:26 PM, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> >> Since the lack of modernization would eventually mean that m68k support
> >> would
> >> get removed from gcc, I'm currently running a campaign to prevent that.
lready contributing to GCC. I guess
you could try to do it as a GSoC project if it's in that ballpark.
(I don't think «minority group» is a useful classifier; depending on how
you slice it, we're all from some sort of minority group or another.)
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
toolchain maintenance (for
a port that's no longer part of Debian proper even!). Not what you or
GCC upstream or anybody else does with their own time and money.
Cheers,
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
mething done and might
> encourage others.
For me, it's not about the amount at all, but rather that we don't spend
Debian money on directly paying people or use Debian money as carrots
for directing effort.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
and non-DD salsa accounts?
(There's also the wiki account lifecycle, but that's completely separate
and doesn't interact with any of the others, so we might want to keep
that outside the discussion for now.)
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
ch this effectively would. (People requesting guest
accounts might also not have salsa accounts.)
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
]] Sam Hartman
> >>>>> "Tollef" == Tollef Fog Heen writes:
>
> Tollef> ]] Enrico Zini
> >> For guest accounts opened by DSA directly, it can be pretty much
>
> First, at this point in time I would be very skepticle of someone
>
]] Enrico Zini
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 09:47:39PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>
> > We quite regularly have upstreams getting access for weird architecture
> > failures. There's no particular reason for those people to have salsa
> > accounts.
>
> I unde
everyone can view
| it without having to check out via bzr.
It does, look at http://bzr.debian.org/loggerhead/dep/dep5/trunk/files
(Thanks to Steve for pointing out that loggerhead on Alioth had some
problems so they could be resolved.)
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just pi
even if MUCs aren't
very much used (yet), I don't know if you care about this.
Thanks for doing this survey, I've found reading the results interesting
in the past and hope to do so this time around as well.
Regards,
--
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UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky
ollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
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or me. :-)
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rse
thinking of having alerts sent to the local admin rather than DSA.
Regards,
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with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Conta
ple will end up associating Debian (and
therefore Debian Developers) with begging, and I'd rather not be
associated with such activities.
I know many people don't consider asking for donations begging, but I
do.
Regards,
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky abo
onsidering the taboo surrounding
| money. OTOH, a beggar doesn't provide any service at all.
My definition of people begging for money include charities asking for
money on the street. Those charities usually provide useful services.
I guess that wasn't entirely clear from my email.
--
]] Michael Gilbert
Hi,
| On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 17:27:08 +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
|
| > You don't think so. I do. One of the reasons is it puts a, IMO too
| > low value on other, similar work, so by taking petty donations for
| > small pieces of work, you are lowering the va
ot to Collabora for sponsoring office space and snacks for the
sprint and to Debian for sponsoring travel.
Regards,
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atters.
Source packages are signed with the developer's key.
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d-i a few months before DC3, iirc.
I'm currently unable to find the IRC log where I told you about it,
though.
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with a subject of
oups. I'm still a member of webwml even though I
don't think I've committed anything there since 2007 or so. I'm also
apparently a qa member, though I can't even remember asking to be put in
the group. :-)
(Not picking on those two groups specifically, I'm just using
quest yet, but the wish is certainly there.
I thought Roland fixed that recently? If not, can you please try again
and see if it works now?
Thanks,
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27;d like to keep and send it back, gpg-signed,
or similar, so I don't really think we'll bother with differentiating
between dangerous and innocent groups.
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am relationships, that set will shrink to
> nothing, too bad. The agreement will simply allow the set to exist, it
> will not magically fill it with browsers that implement t=something.
Based on this, I don't see any downsides for us in accepting such an
agreement, only possible upsides, so
ven how much money and
> time DSA spends on each architecture.
We so far only have numbers for our services, where the cost of an extra
architecture is fairly small. As for time spent, we don't track that at
all.
--
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UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who
]] Filipus Klutiero
Hi,
> Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > ]] Filipus Klutiero
> >
> > > It is concerning that we no longer receive enough hardware donations
> > > to meet our needs. I can only encourage these improvements to
> > > donations pages. Specifi
otes and numbers from vendors which they've
asked not to be made public. Ditto, I don't think there's much point in
publishing the serial numbers of our various servers.
--
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--
To
]] Tollef Fog Heen
> ]] Filipus Klutiero
>
> > Great. Is this plan written? If so, it would be a good idea to make it
> > available.
>
> I'll see what we can get done. There's a bit of cleanup to be done,
> since we don't want to publish all the
]] Kurt Roeckx
> It's about to move to a new host, and I'm not sure if DSA is still
> going to give everybody access to that host.
I imagine that depends on what the secretary asks us to, with us having
a slight-to-medium preference for making it restricted.
--
Tollef Fog H
I might
grant somebody rights to a package, but want it to expire within $period
(or at least be subject to more aggressive QA/MIA checks than a normal
DD), since I'll be tied to them in a way.
Cheers,
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its f
approved yearly or every other year would be that onerous.
(It's also the direction we're moving in for shell accounts on d.o as
you know; people who don't use them will have to go through changes@db
to reactivate their shell access.)
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UNIX is user friendly, it'
we should
have it, since I think it's pointless, but I can't say it bothers me
particularly much in one direction or the other.)
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ced
to add if somebody asks.
> as well as random forks, none of which are communicated to me, and
> within some of which there might be value, but hunting it out is
> unlikely to be a good use of my time; as well as a crappy BTS (that can
> at least be disabled).
Yeah, the random forks is
would be ok with doing it off my debit card too,
since I can afford the liquidity without wanting to bear the cost myself.)
And of course, others might have tighter liquidity and so what you say
applies. I just don't think it'll apply for everybody.
--
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UNIX is user frien
]] Jonas Smedegaard
> Please pretty please someone either purge the Planet cache or tell me
> what embarrassing detail I am missing here.
I have done it now. At least I think I have. ;-)
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--
To
hich I think is the case for the UDD data.
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t; submitter something if they use the close command.
We did this ages ago. Perhaps it's time to retire the close command
entirely?
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use they're happy with Debian,
that's great and something I think we should make easier and more
visible.
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with a s
e (pay shipping costs, purchase of cheap hardware such as
> cables, replacement disk, etc.).
Given we're not buying the cheapest disks we can find (since they have
worse warranties, etc), replacement disks quite often ends up at
approximately the $300 mark, maybe make the limit $400
eed to clear for something to be
copyrightable.
I believe this is what Russ is talking about. (Russ, please correct me
if I'm wrong here.)
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that our experiences
are positive, we don't believe it will be interesting to go back, and
even if one CDN folds, they are fast becoming a commodity so we think
switching to another will be fairly easy.
We appreciate feedback while we continue our investigation of CDNs.
Thanks for your interes
are-only solutions without the peering setup and
> data center distribution.
We are already running CDNs, multiple of them: The mirror network, the
security archive network, the web pages and a few more. What we don't
have is the manpower and the infrastructure to run and maintain this as
well
ng from one provider to another isn't hard, and we
already have offers from multiple CDNs, so I'm not particularly worried
about this. Were it harder to switch, it would be different, but
luckily, it's fairly easy.
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do so.
> Not all CDNs support IPv6.
We will want to use CDNs that do support IPv6. It's one of the
technical bits that need to fall into place before we will want to
switch.
> I would rather expand the mirror network.
Does that mean you're volunteering for the task of doing t
]] "Andrew M.A. Cater"
> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 08:44:56AM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > Dear Project,
> >
> > The System Administration Team (DSA) are considering moving some of the
> > static hosting that Debian currently provides from our infrastruc
]] Philip Hands
> Tollef Fog Heen writes:
>
> ...
> > Nobody has suggested removing the mirror network. What's being
> > discussed is using a CDN for some .d.o services.
>
> That was certainly not clear from your original post.
>
> I certainly read you
l people they're not allowed to
turn their paranoia dial all the way up. (Using paranoia here for lack
of a better word; no disrespect meant.)
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]] Ingo Jürgensmann
> Am 14.10.2013 um 07:29 schrieb Tollef Fog Heen :
>
> > - I would like us to have agreements with any donors that they're not
> > allowed to use the information for anything but operational issues. We
> > can't tell them not to lo
so much every student can afford.
Current best practice is to build packages locally, not on a remote VM,
not even one managed by DSA. We might want to change that, but I think
there's a discussion that needs to be had before we do so.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's
lies non-free software.
Fastly uses Varnish (which is free software). Cloudfront uses Apache
(which is free software). I'm sure there are CDNs using non-free
software too, but that doesn't seem particularly relevant.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about
]] Stefano Zacchiroli
> On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 11:19:14AM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > You seem to be under the impression that CDN implies non-free software.
>
> Oh, no, not at all. I'm just saying that we should judge CDN offerings
> on the basis of the kind of
ious harassments.
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]] Stefano Zacchiroli
> On Mon, Nov 04, 2013 at 02:51:52PM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > > So, what would be the beneficial social effects of publishing the ban
> > > *duration*?
> >
> > The ban duration is an indication of how severe we think the violation
rings attached - Gimp
> just moved off Sourceforge for that reason...
It's not a vote, and it's easy for the people who do not have to do
anything but send mails to a mailing list to say «we should spend more
effort».
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky
]] anarcat
> On 2013-11-14 05:20:12, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > ]] anarcat
> >
> >> All the tools currently running the Debian mirror architecture. Some
> >> mirrors may run an FTP mirror on a non-free software, but they don't
> >> *have* to, and
]] anarcat
> On 2013-11-14 10:37:21, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> > Yes. If you're just anycasting an IP, you'll get pretty poor
> > performance.
>
> Can you expand on that?
BGP anycast will just get you the closest one in term of metrics. This
is probably the
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