Re: [SPAM?]: Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-23 Thread Yavor Doganov
On Fri, 19 May 2006 21:44:28 +0300, Linas Žvirblis wrote: > As far as I know, we only have three spreadsheets in Debian, and each > belongs to a certain office suite (OpenOffice.org, GNOME Office, > KOffice) [...] No, there is GNU Oleo as well. I use it. -- JID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSU

Re: [SPAM?]: Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-22 Thread Frank Küster
Linas Žvirblis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The description of "Data analysis" could be: "Software designed for > processing, extracting, and presenting generic scientific data." Yes, sounds good. I also snipped the rest what you said, with approval. > I included a draft for "Science" section

Bug#361418: [SPAM?]: Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-20 Thread Ben Burton
> > I think it's wonderful that scientists get so much value out of > > mathematical software, but they are not the only ones -- why does this > > mean that every piece of mathematical software needs to be filed in the > > science drawer? > > Because it is not always possible to draw a clear line

Re: [SPAM?]: Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-19 Thread Linas Žvirblis
Frank Küster wrote: > Currently, the free plotting/fitting programs I know of are in fact > clearly different from spreadsheets, because they lack a decent user > interface for data manipulation. But that may change (it was promised > for a future version of grace, and I have not yet checked out

Re: [SPAM?]: Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-18 Thread Frank Küster
Linas Žvirblis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Neither have I. But gnumed, for example, currently contains entries in > "Tools". This is wrong by default, so I do not consider that a feature. > > They will have to be moved anyway, so why not to "Science"? This would > keep them organized and, most im

Re: [SPAM?]: Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-17 Thread Linas Žvirblis
Frank Küster wrote: >> I have only located a single medicine-related application, but there are >> more in other sections. The whole bunch of gnumed-* packages is a good >> example. > > That may be a general problem (or feature). I have none installed, but > I guess there might be a couple of me

Re: [SPAM?]: Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-17 Thread Frank Küster
Linas Žvirblis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have only located a single medicine-related application, but there are > more in other sections. The whole bunch of gnumed-* packages is a good > example. That may be a general problem (or feature). I have none installed, but I guess there might be a

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-16 Thread Ben Burton
> I added another section named "Analysis", that contains general data > analysis/plotting/calculation applications. I find them very similar to > what is found in "Math", so I consider moving "Mathematics" to "Science" > a good idea. Again: we see that scientists make heavy use of mathematics,

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-16 Thread Linas Žvirblis
I went on and made a list of applications that are currently found in "Science" [science] and another one with these applications roughly sorted into sections [science_sorted]. The short version: Analysis [10] Astronomy [12] Biology [16] Chemistry [11] Geoscience [5] Medicine [1] Physics [

Re: Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-16 Thread Linas Žvirblis
Frank Küster wrote: > That's a nice exercise, but the interesting question is whether we > actually have enough *packages* so that their creation makes sense. Quite frankly, I do not (yet) know if there is a need for each subsection I listed, but there is no reason for not being forward compatib

Re: Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-16 Thread Frank Küster
Thomas Walter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello, > > On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 19:20, Bill Allombert wrote: >> On Sun, May 14, 2006 at 06:20:25PM +0200, Thomas Walter wrote: > > [snip] > >> >> > In general, my understanding of "Science" is in the sense of research >> > and not education. >> > Thus a

Re: [SPAM?]: Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-16 Thread Frank Küster
Linas Žvirblis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I actually find splitting "Science" a good idea. > > I did a little research and came up with this list of possible > subsections, along with example fields they cover: > > Astronomy > * Astrodynamics > * Astronomy > * Astrophysics > * Cosmology > *

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-15 Thread Linas Žvirblis
I actually find splitting "Science" a good idea. I did a little research and came up with this list of possible subsections, along with example fields they cover: Astronomy * Astrodynamics * Astronomy * Astrophysics * Cosmology * Radio astronomy Biology * Anatomy * Bioinformatics * Botan

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-15 Thread Thomas Walter
Hello, On Mon, 2006-05-15 at 01:25, Daniel Leidert wrote: [snip] > > Ok. Let's say, the main function/job/role makes the difference, so only > applications which are real teaching programs (like e.g. tools to teach > langauges or the PSE like kalzium or gperiodic) have to go into > Education. A

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-15 Thread Thomas Walter
Hello, On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 19:20, Bill Allombert wrote: > On Sun, May 14, 2006 at 06:20:25PM +0200, Thomas Walter wrote: [snip] > > > In general, my understanding of "Science" is in the sense of research > > and not education. > > Thus an example breakdown within Sience could be like > >

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Ben Burton
> Unconvinced. Theoretical chemistry, as an example, is largely > mathematics. But not only in the sense below engineering/physics. To > develop novel theoretical chemistry, new mathematics has to be > invented. The same for physics/mathematics: remember that Newton had > to invent (I know that in

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Francesco Pietra
Unconvinced. Theoretical chemistry, as an example, is largely mathematics. But not only in the sense below engineering/physics. To develop novel theoretical chemistry, new mathematics has to be invented. The same for physics/mathematics: remember that Newton had to invent (I know that in some q

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Francesco Pietra
To answer here, taking into account other suggestions, i believe that the less we cut science into pieces the better the result. Specialisation has resulted to be a negative trend in university education (all over the world). When industry seeks for a fresh graduate biologist, industry seeks for

Re: Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Ben Burton
> >FWIW, I would argue that mathematics is not a science -- it does not use > >the scientific method, there is no hypothesis and experimentation -- it > >is a more self-contained discipline that, while it seeks to be useful, > >is not bound to modelling the physical world. > > I think of new ways

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Russell Shaw
Ben Burton wrote: Hi, I think Mathematics is also part of Science. FWIW, I would argue that mathematics is not a science -- it does not use the scientific method, there is no hypothesis and experimentation -- it is a more self-contained discipline that, while it seeks to be useful, is not bou

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Ben Burton
Hi, > I think Mathematics is also part of Science. FWIW, I would argue that mathematics is not a science -- it does not use the scientific method, there is no hypothesis and experimentation -- it is a more self-contained discipline that, while it seeks to be useful, is not bound to modelling the

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Ben Burton
Oh, and a minor typo: > The relevant sections are: > > Mathematics [was:Math] > Mathematics-related software. > gcalctool, snapea, xeukleides The "snappea" package has two "p"s. Ben (the snappea maintainer). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Daniel Leidert
Am Sonntag, den 14.05.2006, 23:42 +0200 schrieb Thomas Walter: > On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 22:26, Daniel Leidert wrote: [..] > > Where do you make the difference between a scientific and an educational > > software product? Let's say: What is a chemical structures editor? What > > is a (software reali

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Thomas Walter
Hello, On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 22:26, Daniel Leidert wrote: > Am Sonntag, den 14.05.2006, 21:55 +0200 schrieb Thomas Walter: > > On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 20:52, Daniel Leidert wrote: > > [..] > > > > In general, my understanding of "Science" is in the sense of research > > > > and not education. > > >

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Bill Allombert
On Sun, May 14, 2006 at 05:57:31PM +0200, Francesco Pietra wrote: > I received this message after I answered Bill Allombert. > > The list below is a reasonable one, when "Bio" is written in full "Biology" > and "medicine" is added; medicine is largely biology but with special needs. > > I disag

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Daniel Leidert
Am Sonntag, den 14.05.2006, 21:55 +0200 schrieb Thomas Walter: > On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 20:52, Daniel Leidert wrote: [..] > > > In general, my understanding of "Science" is in the sense of research > > > and not education. > > > > I do not agree. Education also means science. It doesn't just mean

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Thomas Walter
On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 20:52, Daniel Leidert wrote: > Am Sonntag, den 14.05.2006, 18:20 +0200 schrieb Thomas Walter: > > On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 17:01, Bill Allombert wrote: > > > Hello Debian Science people, > > > > > > There is a discussion (in bug #361418) on the future of the Debian > > > menu st

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Thomas Walter
Hello, On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 17:57, Francesco Pietra wrote: > I received this message after I answered Bill Allombert. > > The list below is a reasonable one, when "Bio" is written in full "Biology" > and "medicine" is added; medicine is largely biology but with special needs. > > I disagree w

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Daniel Leidert
Am Sonntag, den 14.05.2006, 18:20 +0200 schrieb Thomas Walter: > On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 17:01, Bill Allombert wrote: > > Hello Debian Science people, > > > > There is a discussion (in bug #361418) on the future of the Debian > > menu structure. In case you missed it, we would like to have your > >

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Bill Allombert
On Sun, May 14, 2006 at 06:20:25PM +0200, Thomas Walter wrote: > Hello, > > >From my point of view this 2 section names are arbitrary and too global. > It also opens a long discussion about the hirarchy. I think Mathematics > is also part of Science. At least for application like axiom, octave,

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Bill Allombert
On Sun, May 14, 2006 at 05:45:44PM +0200, Francesco Pietra wrote: > etc., what about chemistry? Chemistry is at the basis of "natural sciences" > mentioned below, and a basic science in its own. Think about chemistry (there > are great debian packages for chemistry, first on the line - in my view

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Francesco Pietra
I received this message after I answered Bill Allombert. The list below is a reasonable one, when "Bio" is written in full "Biology" and "medicine" is added; medicine is largely biology but with special needs. I disagree with the distinction science/education. Scientific education is science,

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Francesco Pietra
etc., what about chemistry? Chemistry is at the basis of "natural sciences" mentioned below, and a basic science in its own. Think about chemistry (there are great debian packages for chemistry, first on the line - in my view - mpqc. At any event, there are chemists under the "Science section" u

Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section

2006-05-14 Thread Thomas Walter
Hello, On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 17:01, Bill Allombert wrote: > Hello Debian Science people, > > There is a discussion (in bug #361418) on the future of the Debian > menu structure. In case you missed it, we would like to have your > opinions on the entries for scientific applications. > > The relev