Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-09 Thread batist
On Sat, 2004-05-08 at 17:05, Arnoud Engelfriet wrote: > Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > > ... regarding EU directives: are individual governments _allowed_ to > > go beyond the bounds of the EU directives (in the implementation into > > law)? As those directives are most often some sort o

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-09 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > i notice in particular that 50B says you may not disclose > what you decompile [to a higher level language] to any party except > those involved in the decompilation process. > > that is 1) _not_ in the 91/EC/250 directive that i saw three years > ago 2)

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-08 Thread Arnoud Engelfriet
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > ... regarding EU directives: are individual governments _allowed_ to > go beyond the bounds of the EU directives (in the implementation into > law)? They must change their law to conform to the directive. But there's no instance that can intervene if they'r

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-07 Thread MJ Ray
On 2004-05-07 17:38:32 +0100 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: that stops - dead - any benefit by the open source community to perform reverse engineering, because it explicitly says that you may not release the source code. Only the decompiled code may not be released a

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-07 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
On Fri, May 07, 2004 at 12:58:45PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote: > On 2004-05-07 11:48:55 +0100 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Council Directive 91/250/EEC 14 May 1991; enacted in the UK as S.I. > >1992 > >No. 3233 > >does anyone here know what site can be used to obt

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-07 Thread MJ Ray
On 2004-05-07 11:48:55 +0100 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Council Directive 91/250/EEC 14 May 1991; enacted in the UK as S.I. 1992 No. 3233 does anyone here know what site can be used to obtain the document SI 1992 no 3233? It is on http://www.legislation.hmso.go

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-07 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
a page here: http://www.jenkins-ip.com/serv/serv_6.htm has this to say: Council Directive 91/250/EEC 14 May 1991; enacted in the UK as S.I. 1992 No. 3233 does anyone here know what site can be used to obtain the document SI 1992 no 3233? ta, l. -- -- expecting email to be r

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-06 Thread Nathanael Nerode
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/et/dd/docs/1991/31991L0250-ET.doc I can't read this. Got it in English? > this document outlines the circumstances under which copyright > holders effectively forfeit their copyright ... > and the sections that > i wish to draw t

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-04 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 04:00:57PM +0200, Arnoud Engelfriet wrote: > MJ Ray wrote: > > On 2004-05-03 19:41:30 +0100 Arnoud Engelfriet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > >For example, consider Microsoft licensing its standard libraries > > >under GPL. > > > > People fork them and create compe

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-04 Thread Mahesh T. Pai
Arnoud Engelfriet said on Tue, May 04, 2004 at 04:00:57PM +0200,: > No, people would be forced to license their work under GPL or > develop alternative standard libraries. I do not see anything such a view in the English version. All thsi document says is, `you can reverse engineer so as t

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-04 Thread MJ Ray
On 2004-05-04 15:00:57 +0100 Arnoud Engelfriet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: European law wasn't as developed as US law by this time (1991). As I'm sure you know, European law is not an homogenous whole, so occasionally there are harmonisation and generalisation parts in directives. You can fi

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-04 Thread Arnoud Engelfriet
MJ Ray wrote: > On 2004-05-03 19:41:30 +0100 Arnoud Engelfriet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > >For example, consider Microsoft licensing its standard libraries > >under GPL. > > People fork them and create competition? No, people would be forced to license their work under GPL or develop alte

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-04 Thread Arnoud Engelfriet
Raul Miller wrote: > On Mon, May 03, 2004 at 08:41:30PM +0200, Arnoud Engelfriet wrote: > > A dominant market player could use the GPL in an abusive way. > > For example, consider Microsoft licensing its standard libraries > > under GPL. > > After thinking about a number of scenarios, I don't thin

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-04 Thread MJ Ray
On 2004-05-04 07:28:49 +0100 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: no: what's news is that the copy of 91/EC/250 on which i based the entire justification for the reverse engineering necessary for samba to interoperate with windows nt domains has DISAPPEARED. As I understand

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-04 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 12:33:33AM +0100, MJ Ray wrote: > Ideas and principles are not copyrightable ever, are they? They are > the wrong side of the idea-expression boundary. Copyright only covers > expressions. > > This is not news. no: what's news is that the copy of 91/EC/250 on which i ba

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-03 Thread MJ Ray
On 2004-05-03 19:41:30 +0100 Arnoud Engelfriet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: For example, consider Microsoft licensing its standard libraries under GPL. People fork them and create competition? or open source project with an incompatible license is entitled to request a compatible license and

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-03 Thread MJ Ray
On 2004-05-03 18:53:35 +0100 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: this is about interoperability rather than monopoly. Sure, but you started on about monopolies, which don't really have anything to do with this directive. I assumed that you were referencing competition la

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-03 Thread Mahesh T. Pai
There is something in here which merits our deeper attention. MJ Ray said on Sun, May 02, 2004 at 07:35:40PM +0100,: > this directive's text is also available in English HTML at > http://europa.eu.int/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexapi!prod!CELEXnumdoc&lg=EN&numdoc=31991L0250&model=guichet

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-03 Thread Mahesh T. Pai
Arnoud Engelfriet said on Mon, May 03, 2004 at 08:41:30PM +0200,: > A dominant market player could use the GPL in an abusive way. For > example, consider Microsoft licensing its standard libraries under > GPL. How can use of the GNU GPL abuse *users'* rights? Even if by M$? -- +~

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-03 Thread Raul Miller
On Mon, May 03, 2004 at 08:41:30PM +0200, Arnoud Engelfriet wrote: > A dominant market player could use the GPL in an abusive way. > For example, consider Microsoft licensing its standard libraries > under GPL. After thinking about a number of scenarios, I don't think that this would work as a for

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-03 Thread Arnoud Engelfriet
MJ Ray wrote: > On 2004-05-02 13:07:38 +0100 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >where such libraries could be construed to have "interfaces", and > >where the GPL is used to force a monopoly position, then any company > > GPL cannot force a monopoly (in the meaning of

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-03 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
On Sun, May 02, 2004 at 07:35:40PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote: > For those not wanting a version in Microsoft Word with (?)Estonian, > this directive's text is also available in English HTML at > http://europa.eu.int/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexapi!prod!CELEXnumdoc&lg=EN&numdoc=31991L0250&model=g

Re: European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-02 Thread MJ Ray
For those not wanting a version in Microsoft Word with (?)Estonian, this directive's text is also available in English HTML at http://europa.eu.int/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexapi!prod!CELEXnumdoc&lg=EN&numdoc=31991L0250&model=guichett Other languages can be found by using the number 319

European Directive on Copyright Law (91/EC/250) wrt open source

2004-05-02 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/et/dd/docs/1991/31991L0250-ET.doc this document outlines the circumstances under which copyright holders effectively forfeit their copyright and the sections that i wish to draw to your attention are the ones concerning "interfaces" and "interoperability at interface