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On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 23:09:21 -0800
Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Nope, it is more than a technical difference in language used, it
> > is a different design goal between both.
>
> Um... the design goal is "create an initramfs that boo
On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 08:31:28AM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 08:38:03PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 10:38:41PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > I still think choice is good, and also what users expect of debian. A sane
> > > default, plus the ab
On Wed, Nov 16, 2005 at 12:35:03AM +0100, Erik van Konijnenburg wrote:
> > I think the best would be for Erik to comment on this, CCing this to him
> > now.
>
> To summarise: we can reduce dependencies and make the footprint smaller,
> but at a cost in building effort and the stability that comes
(Forwarding replies to the yaird-devel list)
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 09:21:38PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 03:17:24PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> > Sven Luther wrote:
> > > Also, we have perl-base in base, or used to at least, would yaird not be
> > > able
> > > to depend o
On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 05:14:50PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> On Tuesday 15 November 2005 13:23, Sven Luther wrote:
> > Jonas, does it actually know how to look into /target/etc/fstab and not
> > /etc/fstab ?
>
> This of course is a completely irrelevant question as d-i runs the initrd
> generator
On Tuesday 15 November 2005 13:23, Sven Luther wrote:
> Jonas, does it actually know how to look into /target/etc/fstab and not
> /etc/fstab ?
This of course is a completely irrelevant question as d-i runs the initrd
generators in a chroot on /target.
So, yes, effectively it _does_ look in /targe
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On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:23:25 +0100
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 10:24:41AM +, Colin Watson wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 04:15:36PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> > > Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > > > I don't unde
On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 10:24:41AM +, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 04:15:36PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> > Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > > I don't understand what "temporary hardcoding of root partition"
> > > actually means.
> > >
> > > Yaird looks at /etc/fstab for the root par
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 04:15:36PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > I don't understand what "temporary hardcoding of root partition"
> > actually means.
> >
> > Yaird looks at /etc/fstab for the root partion.
>
> d-i currently does this before installing mkinitrd-tools:
>
>
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 08:38:03PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 10:38:41PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> > I still think choice is good, and also what users expect of debian. A sane
> > default, plus the ability to override that in expert mode.
>
> Choice is overrated, and
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 10:38:41PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> I still think choice is good, and also what users expect of debian. A sane
> default, plus the ability to override that in expert mode.
Choice is overrated, and a poor substitute for properly working tools.
"Which initramfs generator d
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 01:37:18AM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
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>
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:28:38 -0500
> Jeff Bailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On dim, 2005-11-13 at 20:28 +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> > > On Sunday 13 November 2005 08:16, Sve
On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 05:26:17PM -0500, Jeff Bailey wrote:
> On dim, 2005-11-13 at 22:49 +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> > I wonder about one thing though, since this is basically a ramdisk, once the
> > boot is over, what happens to the memory used to hold it ?
> It gets freed as part of run-init,
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On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 22:06:55 +0100
Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One thing to keep in mind if we should go for initramfs-tools.
> debian-cd will include yaird and dependencies by default on CD images
> to satisfy kernel-image dependencies as
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 10:06:55PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> On Monday 14 November 2005 21:47, Joey Hess wrote:
> > This seems more in-scope for the kernel team to decide than the d-i
> > team, but if it would help I can flip a coin..
>
> Note that one consideration is consistency between Debian a
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 03:47:57PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> Sven Luther wrote:
> > Ok, but who will chose which will be the default one ? The d-i team, or the
> > kernel team ?
>
> It's more important to make a choice than what the choice is.
>
> d-i chose between lilo and grub before; we did i
Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Initramfs-tools May produce too big images for some arches. This needs
> to be verified and documented (Sven seems most knowledgable about this).
>
> Yaird needs sysfs on running system so cannot be used from a 2.4
> system. This may not be an issue to d-i.
>
> Yaird doe
On Monday 14 November 2005 21:47, Joey Hess wrote:
> This seems more in-scope for the kernel team to decide than the d-i
> team, but if it would help I can flip a coin..
Note that one consideration is consistency between Debian and Ubuntu in
d-i. Ubuntu have implemented initramfs-tools and in fac
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On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 14:54:10 -0500
Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Frans Pop wrote:
> > Both initrd generators have limitations in what they currently
> > support. We may have to either always install both, or include
> > logic that pre-install
Sven Luther wrote:
> Ok, but who will chose which will be the default one ? The d-i team, or the
> kernel team ?
It's more important to make a choice than what the choice is.
d-i chose between lilo and grub before; we did it by listening to what
users wanted and looking at which worked best over
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 03:17:24PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> Sven Luther wrote:
> > Also, we have perl-base in base, or used to at least, would yaird not be
> > able
> > to depend on perl-base only ?
>
> yaird uses at lest the following perl modules which are not currently
> present in perl-base
Sven Luther wrote:
> Also, we have perl-base in base, or used to at least, would yaird not be able
> to depend on perl-base only ?
yaird uses at lest the following perl modules which are not currently
present in perl-base but are in perl:
./Image.pm:use File::Copy;
./Pack.pm:use File::Temp;
On t
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 02:54:10PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> Frans Pop wrote:
> > Both initrd generators have limitations in what they currently support. We
> > may have to either always install both, or include logic that
> > pre-installs one or the other depending on the situation.
>
> Based o
Frans Pop wrote:
> Both initrd generators have limitations in what they currently support. We
> may have to either always install both, or include logic that
> pre-installs one or the other depending on the situation.
Based on http://wiki.debian.org/InitrdReplacementOptions I didn't see
any item
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 01:37:18AM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> If I understand it correctly, ldd only correctly resolves libraries
> linked with glibc, and yaird includes a more generic tool - documented
> here: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ekonijn/yaird/yaird.html#shlibs
Err, yaird uses ldd and suf
On Mon, Nov 14, 2005 at 01:37:18AM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Would it perhaps make sense to provide the yaird "findlibs" binary in a
> separate package for initramfs-tools to also use?
findlibs is crippled replacement for mklibs-readelf, a tool which I
decided to use for mklibs-copy, not a
On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 05:26:17PM -0500, Jeff Bailey wrote:
> On dim, 2005-11-13 at 22:49 +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > FWIW, Ubuntu's install defaults to 'most' mode on the grounds that for
> > > most systems (not lowmem, not oldworld ppc, not netboot) there's no harm
> > > in having a larger i
On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 10:59:10PM +0100, Maximilian Attems wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 10:34:27PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 09:23:14PM +0100, Maximilian Attems wrote:
> > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 08:01:38PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at
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On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 02:09:18 +0100
Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> For those who want to give it a try it without installing yaird ;-)
> - http://people.debian.org/~fjp/findlibs (8 k)
...and use same architecture as you, whatever that is :-P
On lun, 2005-11-14 at 02:06 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > Heya! A couple quick notes about
> > http://wiki.debian.org/InitrdReplacementOptions
>
> Ahem - first a general remark: Are you aware that the wiki is editable
> by all? You can edit the page yourself (and while you are at it
> - - yo
On lun, 2005-11-14 at 01:37 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> If I understand it correctly, ldd only correctly resolves libraries
> linked with glibc, and yaird includes a more generic tool - documented
> here: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ekonijn/yaird/yaird.html#shlibs
Right. I'll take a look at the doc
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:23:53 -0500
Jeff Bailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On dim, 2005-11-13 at 20:31 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>
> Heya! A couple quick notes about
> http://wiki.debian.org/InitrdReplacementOptions
Ahem - first a general rem
On Monday 14 November 2005 01:37, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Would it perhaps make sense to provide the yaird "findlibs" binary in a
> separate package for initramfs-tools to also use?
That looks promising.
For those who want to give it a try it without installing yaird ;-)
- http://people.debian.
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 17:28:38 -0500
Jeff Bailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On dim, 2005-11-13 at 20:28 +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> > On Sunday 13 November 2005 08:16, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > That is less than 6MB of stuff, hardly "heavy". A single ker
On dim, 2005-11-13 at 20:28 +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> On Sunday 13 November 2005 08:16, Sven Luther wrote:
> > That is less than 6MB of stuff, hardly "heavy". A single kernel flavour
> > is double that for example.
>
> That is exactly why we include only one kernel image on i386 netinst CD
> imag
On dim, 2005-11-13 at 22:49 +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> > FWIW, Ubuntu's install defaults to 'most' mode on the grounds that for
> > most systems (not lowmem, not oldworld ppc, not netboot) there's no harm
> > in having a larger initramfs (approx 5 meg on disk, 40meg in memory).
>
> A bit over 7MB
Sven Luther wrote:
[snip]
> > The upside is that the initramfs created should be more or less
> > identical for every system and is resilient against people moving the
> > drive from one machine to the other, doing perfect copies (using ghost,
> > dd, or whatnot), or using an already generated init
On dim, 2005-11-13 at 20:31 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
Heya! A couple quick notes about
http://wiki.debian.org/InitrdReplacementOptions
fstab label and uuid are just waiting on the newer udev in Ubuntu. I
think Debian already has it, so it might Just Work. Can you change its
state to Needs
On Sunday 13 November 2005 22:45, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 08:28:47PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> > On Sunday 13 November 2005 08:16, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > That is less than 6MB of stuff, hardly "heavy". A single kernel
> > > flavour is double that for example.
> >
> > That is
On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 10:34:27PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 09:23:14PM +0100, Maximilian Attems wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 08:01:38PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 12:32:29PM -0500, Jeff Bailey wrote:
> > > > On dim, 2005-11-13 at 12:46 +
On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 03:22:42PM -0500, Jeff Bailey wrote:
> On dim, 2005-11-13 at 20:34 +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> > On Sunday 13 November 2005 18:32, Jeff Bailey wrote:
> > > On dim, 2005-11-13 at 12:46 +0100, Bastian Blank wrote:
> > > > I think it is possible at least for initramfs-tools to ru
On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 08:47:37PM +0100, Bastian Blank wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 08:28:47PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> > waldi: Why is mklibs-copy needed?
>
> To find the needed libs without using ldd and sed, which provides the
> view of the dynlinker of the loaded libs, which often not co
On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 08:28:47PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> On Sunday 13 November 2005 08:16, Sven Luther wrote:
> > That is less than 6MB of stuff, hardly "heavy". A single kernel flavour
> > is double that for example.
>
> That is exactly why we include only one kernel image on i386 netinst CD
On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 09:23:14PM +0100, Maximilian Attems wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 08:01:38PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 12:32:29PM -0500, Jeff Bailey wrote:
> > > On dim, 2005-11-13 at 12:46 +0100, Bastian Blank wrote:
> > > > I think it is possible at least fo
On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 08:01:38PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 12:32:29PM -0500, Jeff Bailey wrote:
> > On dim, 2005-11-13 at 12:46 +0100, Bastian Blank wrote:
> > > I think it is possible at least for initramfs-tools to run without sysfs
> > > on the building system.
> >
>
On dim, 2005-11-13 at 20:34 +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> On Sunday 13 November 2005 18:32, Jeff Bailey wrote:
> > On dim, 2005-11-13 at 12:46 +0100, Bastian Blank wrote:
> > > I think it is possible at least for initramfs-tools to run without
> > > sysfs on the building system.
> >
> > Right. The cav
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:01:38 +0100
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 12:32:29PM -0500, Jeff Bailey wrote:
> > On dim, 2005-11-13 at 12:46 +0100, Bastian Blank wrote:
> > > I think it is possible at least for initramfs-to
On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 08:28:47PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> waldi: Why is mklibs-copy needed?
To find the needed libs without using ldd and sed, which provides the
view of the dynlinker of the loaded libs, which often not correspondends
to the files.
> Is it because of the same bug that caused f
On Sunday 13 November 2005 18:32, Jeff Bailey wrote:
> On dim, 2005-11-13 at 12:46 +0100, Bastian Blank wrote:
> > I think it is possible at least for initramfs-tools to run without
> > sysfs on the building system.
>
> Right. The caveat to this is "dep" mode. The default mode for
> initramfs-too
On Sunday 13 November 2005 08:16, Sven Luther wrote:
> That is less than 6MB of stuff, hardly "heavy". A single kernel flavour
> is double that for example.
That is exactly why we include only one kernel image on i386 netinst CD
images.
If we'd follow the suggestion to support both yaird and init
On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 12:32:29PM -0500, Jeff Bailey wrote:
> On dim, 2005-11-13 at 12:46 +0100, Bastian Blank wrote:
> > I think it is possible at least for initramfs-tools to run without sysfs
> > on the building system.
>
> Right. The caveat to this is "dep" mode. The default mode for
> init
On dim, 2005-11-13 at 12:46 +0100, Bastian Blank wrote:
> I think it is possible at least for initramfs-tools to run without sysfs
> on the building system.
Right. The caveat to this is "dep" mode. The default mode for
initramfs-tools is to include all of the modules that you're likely
intereste
hello jonas,
On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 01:44:48PM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> The below was sent to the kernel team and others. Please read and
> comment on debian-kernel@lists.debian.org mailinglist.
>
> It seems both yaird and initramfs-tools share similar confusion:
hehe ;)
> so I will
to loose you by this move!
- Jonas
Begin forwarded message:
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 23:42:26 +0100
From: Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: debian-boot@lists.debian.org
Cc: debian-kernel@lists.debian.org
Subject: [D-I] Supporting 2.6.14 kernels in base-installer
I've taken a first l
On Sun, Nov 13, 2005 at 12:16:02PM +0100, Maximilian Attems wrote:
> klibc-utils could be replaced by the busybox utils. waldi proposed that.
> that would reduce the porter work for klibc which is not yet ready for
> any arch.
We can even produce a extra busybox for that if it is worth of size.
>
[ added jbailey, inifinity and waldi to the cc list ]
On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 11:42:26PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> I've taken a first look at what is involved in supporting installation of
> 2.6.14 kernels in Debian Installer _for the installed system_.
>
> Note: This is a separate issue from ru
On Sat, 12 Nov 2005, Frans Pop wrote:
[..]
The following packages are currently pulled in as dependencies by the
2.6.14 kernel:
- yaird
- perl (3.3 MB)
- perl-modules (2.2 MB)
- libhtml-template-perl
- libparse-recdescent-perl
These requirements look quite heavy to me and may be a problem for th
On Sat, Nov 12, 2005 at 11:42:26PM +0100, Frans Pop wrote:
> I've taken a first look at what is involved in supporting installation of
> 2.6.14 kernels in Debian Installer _for the installed system_.
>
> Note: This is a separate issue from running the installer with a 2.6.14
> kernel.
>
> Durin
I've taken a first look at what is involved in supporting installation of
2.6.14 kernels in Debian Installer _for the installed system_.
Note: This is a separate issue from running the installer with a 2.6.14
kernel.
During kernel installation sysfs needs to be mounted on /target (at least
for
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