Eray Ozkural (exa) continuò:
That is a wrong reading of standard text.
/opt -- Add-on application software packages
There is a difference between system and application software. C++
> library is system software, while a desktop environment like KDE is
> application software. System can continue
> The common view, all apps use, users and admins see,
> is the filesystem. That's why the 'subtree' approach sucks.
> Everyone sees this loosely coupled stuff lying around
> but what he/she really wants is a tidy and well organized
> subtree '/'.
>
>
Yes it sucks. But until and unless we have
On Thursday 17 January 2002 21:01, Ian Eure wrote:
> On Thursday 17 January 2002 11:37 am, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
> > > It should - but as of my current base-files, it does not. /opt should
> > > be created as the FHS calls for it to be for third party software. KDE
> > > is not third party so
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On Thursday 17 January 2002 23:06, Yven Johannes Leist wrote:
> BTW this is sort of offtopic now, but what is the current state of
> the objprelink kde and qt optimizations?
Don't use objprelink, it's buggy. I'm on the KMail mailing list and
there ar
"Eray Ozkural (exa)" wrote:
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> Hi Jeff,
>
> On Thursday 17 January 2002 21:44, Jeff Licquia wrote:
...
> > We cannot currently ensure that a package installing to /opt cannot
> > overwrite admin-installed software there.
> >
>
> Thanks for th
Frank Murphy wrote:
>
> On Thursday 17 January 2002 07:04 pm, Junichi Uekawa wrote:
> >
> > It might be nice to add this bit of policy to Debian Policy
> > so that people do not start mucking around with /opt.
>
> This is a good idea. I understand and whole-heartedly agree with the
> reasons behi
"Eray Ozkural (exa)" wrote:
>
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>
> On Thursday 17 January 2002 16:21, Daniel Stone wrote:
> > You might note the discussion on debian-kde of late, where Eray is
> > attempting to set a precedent by installing KDE3 into /opt/kde3. Let me
> > first d
On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
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> Hi Jamie,
>
> As I wrote to Jeff, it would be best to explain in Debian Policy why debian
> packages should not install files in /opt, with preferably a short sentence
> clarifying that it is pract
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Hi Jamie,
As I wrote to Jeff, it would be best to explain in Debian Policy why debian
packages should not install files in /opt, with preferably a short sentence
clarifying that it is practically impossible to assure administrator's assent
(that is
This one time, at band camp, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
>So, what are the "reasons behind Debian not mucking about with /opt" except
>the preconceptions of some developers? I think you would have to say
>something like:
>
>* It is not very consistent with the directory layout many packages adapt
>
Junichi Uekawa wrote:
> Current practice is to use /opt for external projects, and it is impossible
> to detect conflicts between Debian packages and external prrojects.
I certainly agree with this. An example might be the default installation of
oracle or another third party vendor. Personally,
On Thursday 17 January 2002 15:21, Daniel Stone wrote:
> You might note the discussion on debian-kde of late, where Eray is
> attempting to set a precedent by installing KDE3 into /opt/kde3. Let me
> first disclose my viewpoint: I think this idea sucks, as you can clearly
> see from my postings.
>
On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 16:26, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
> No, I would lean to interpreting package installation as explicit assent to
> overwrite files contained in the package, and removal to remove files.
That's not good enough, because you often don't know what files a
package contains when you
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On Friday 18 January 2002 00:06, Yven Johannes Leist wrote:
>
> nice ice to hear :-)
>
> BTW this is sort of offtopic now, but what is the current state of the
> objprelink kde and qt optimizations?
> After Ivan decided not to do this any longer, I tri
On Thursday 17 January 2002 21:25, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
> On Thursday 17 January 2002 22:03, Yven Johannes Leist wrote:
> > concerning a) I think the agreement (as I understood it) to move
> > /usr/share/icons to/ usr/share/kde/icons is definitely a very good
> > starting point to make people
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On Thursday 17 January 2002 23:42, Daniel Stone wrote:
>
> Have you even talked to Chris privately about this?
I think on IRC today.
Thanks,
- --
Eray Ozkural (exa) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara
www: http://www.cs
On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 10:25:02PM +0200, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
> On Thursday 17 January 2002 22:03, Yven Johannes Leist wrote:
> >
> > concerning a) I think the agreement (as I understood it) to move
> > /usr/share/icons to/ usr/share/kde/icons is definitely a very good starting
> > point to m
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On Thursday 17 January 2002 23:33, Daniel Stone wrote:
> As I keep telling you, KDE developers are upstream. We're Debian. We
> decide what goes where when you type "apt-get install kde". Without
> condescention, they pump out a desktop environment, we
On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 11:28:35PM +0200, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
> On Thursday 17 January 2002 23:28, Daniel Stone wrote:
> > [1]: Well, actually they're right, but I don't want to say that in
> > public."
>
> Of course they are right to some extent, but I had to reserve it for a
> footnote.
On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 11:26:08PM +0200, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
> On Thursday 17 January 2002 23:11, Jeff Licquia wrote:
> > Somehow, I doubt that was the intended meaning of the FHS.
>
> I see. However, it is not very clear whether that phrase has any meaning. If
> it's going to be practical
On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 09:47:51PM +0200, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
> Aside from discussion of /opt policy in FHS:
> Note that the mere suggestion of putting KDE files in /opt/kde3 was because
> the above reason is not valid for KDE since it is quite different from the
> majority of software packa
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On Thursday 17 January 2002 23:28, Daniel Stone wrote:
>
> [1]: Well, actually they're right, but I don't want to say that in
> public."
Of course they are right to some extent, but I had to reserve it for a
footnote.
Cheers,
- --
Eray Ozkural (ex
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On Thursday 17 January 2002 23:11, Jeff Licquia wrote:
>
> When you run, say, "apt-get install kde", you are not given any hints at
> that time about exactly what files will be removed, replaced, etc.
> (except for the special case of conffiles). The
On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 07:21:59PM +0200, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
> [+] The other typical response that "Well it may not violate the policy, but
> it does not seem to be consistent with other packages." is a much more valid
> one.
I can't beleve you relegated this to a footnote. That's like sa
On Thursday 17 January 2002 02:37 pm, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
> For the record, I'm *not* saying that KDE should be installed in /opt. This
> is another matter, I'm saying that the reason for not installing into /opt
> cannot be "/opt violates FHS" since /opt is part of FHS, and its use is
> ver
On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 15:00, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
>
> On Thursday 17 January 2002 21:44, Jeff Licquia wrote:
> >
> > We cannot currently ensure that a package installing to /opt cannot
> > overwrite admin-installed software there.
> >
>
> Thanks for the explanation. That's a quite vague stat
On Thursday 17 January 2002 08:47 pm, you wrote:
>
> So, what are the "reasons behind Debian not mucking about with
> /opt" except the preconceptions of some developers? I think you
> would have to say something like:
>
> * It is not very consistent with the directory layout many packages
> adapt
>
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On Thursday 17 January 2002 22:03, Yven Johannes Leist wrote:
>
> concerning a) I think the agreement (as I understood it) to move
> /usr/share/icons to/ usr/share/kde/icons is definitely a very good starting
> point to make people happier about the na
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Hi Junichi,
On Thursday 17 January 2002 20:04, Junichi Uekawa wrote:
>
> Current practice is to use /opt for external projects,
> and it is impossible to detect conflicts between Debian packages and
> external prrojects.
>
> It might be nice to add th
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On Thursday 17 January 2002 21:47, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
> Actually the FHS permits use of /opt by distributions you mean. Please add
> it to the policy if you have a logical rationale but then we will have to
> drop "FHS compliance" from the list
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Hi Jeff,
On Thursday 17 January 2002 21:44, Jeff Licquia wrote:
>
> That is not what the text of the FHS says. There is no limitation
> mentioned that states that the admin cannot install software outside of
> /opt/bin, etc. And, wherever in /opt th
On Thursday 17 January 2002 15:21, Daniel Stone wrote:
> You might note the discussion on debian-kde of late, where Eray is
> attempting to set a precedent by installing KDE3 into /opt/kde3. Let me
> first disclose my viewpoint: I think this idea sucks, as you can clearly
> see from my postings.
>
On Thursday 17 January 2002 11:37 am, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
> > It should - but as of my current base-files, it does not. /opt should be
> > created as the FHS calls for it to be for third party software. KDE is
> > not third party software in Debian.
>
> So it seems you were the smart person
"Eray Ozkural (exa)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cum veritate scripsit:
> There is an _invalid_ reason which I had to iterate over and over again:
> * /opt is reserved for system administrator's use.
> NO! Certain subdirectories of /opt are reserved for local system admin. The
> rest of /opt can be use
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Greetings Frank,
On Thursday 17 January 2002 21:32, Frank Murphy wrote:
> On Thursday 17 January 2002 07:04 pm, Junichi Uekawa wrote:
> > It might be nice to add this bit of policy to Debian Policy
> > so that people do not start mucking around with /
On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 14:26, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
> On Thursday 17 January 2002 20:04, Junichi Uekawa wrote:
> >Distributions may install software in /opt, but should not modify or
> >delete software installed by the local system administrator without
> > the assent of the loca
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On Thursday 17 January 2002 21:20, Joseph Carter wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 01:21:07AM +1100, Daniel Stone wrote:
> > You might note the discussion on debian-kde of late, where Eray is
> > attempting to set a precedent by installing KDE3 into /op
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On Thursday 17 January 2002 20:04, Junichi Uekawa wrote:
> "Eray Ozkural (exa)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cum veritate scripsit:
> > Prior to saying that, you should have read the relevant section in
> > policy, seeing that it simply delegates all responsibi
On Thursday 17 January 2002 07:04 pm, Junichi Uekawa wrote:
>
> It might be nice to add this bit of policy to Debian Policy
> so that people do not start mucking around with /opt.
This is a good idea. I understand and whole-heartedly agree with the
reasons behind Debian not mucking about with /op
> "JC" == Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
JC> /opt is user's territory, not ours. KDE is correct to default
JC> to using /opt according to the FHS for a default installation.
JC> But it is not correct for Debian to put it there.
Exactly. If I want to have 2+ versions o
On Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 01:21:07AM +1100, Daniel Stone wrote:
> You might note the discussion on debian-kde of late, where Eray is
> attempting to set a precedent by installing KDE3 into /opt/kde3. Let me
> first disclose my viewpoint: I think this idea sucks, as you can clearly
> see from my posti
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On Thursday 17 January 2002 18:21, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
> However, unfortunately, your above statement
> assumes that policy prohibits use of /opt while it does not, that
> is it does not explain at all how, why, or where it is prohibited.
> It i
On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 10:34, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
> On Thursday 17 January 2002 17:22, Daniel Stone wrote:
> > /opt is for "add-on" software. kde is not an "add-on". we package it as
> > part of the distribution, it's not added on.
>
> That is a wrong reading of standard text.
>
> /opt -- A
"Eray Ozkural (exa)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cum veritate scripsit:
> Prior to saying that, you should have read the relevant section in policy,
> seeing that it simply delegates all responsibility to FHS, read the relevant
> section 3.8 in FHS and conceived why I said debian packages may install fi
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Hi Junichi,
On Thursday 17 January 2002 18:49, Junichi Uekawa wrote:
>
> If you are talking about random add-on packages that
> is distributed from kde.org or whatever else,
> that would be fine, as long as it is independent from Debian.
>
> We, as De
"Eray Ozkural (exa)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cum veritate scripsit:
> The answer I got when I asked "Why isn't /opt used in Debian ?" has always
> been "/opt violates Debian Policy".
If you are talking about random add-on packages that
is distributed from kde.org or whatever else,
that would be fin
On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 05:09:54PM +0200, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
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>
> On Thursday 17 January 2002 16:21, Daniel Stone wrote:
> > You might note the discussion on debian-kde of late, where Eray is
> > attempting to set a precedent by installing KD
Il gio, 2002-01-17 alle 16:34, Eray Ozkural (exa) ha scritto:
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>
> On Thursday 17 January 2002 17:22, Daniel Stone wrote:
> > /opt is for "add-on" software. kde is not an "add-on". we package it as
> > part of the distribution, it's not added on.
>
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On Thursday 17 January 2002 17:36, Daniel Stone wrote:
> > There are reserved directories, under which the distributions do not
> > touch. /opt/bin is one of them, and it's a directory that the local admin
> > manages. /opt/bin should be in $PATH I sai
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On Thursday 17 January 2002 17:22, Daniel Stone wrote:
> /opt is for "add-on" software. kde is not an "add-on". we package it as
> part of the distribution, it's not added on.
That is a wrong reading of standard text.
/opt -- Add-on application soft
On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 05:27:22PM +0200, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> I recommend you to read section 3.8 of FHS. Someone who talks so knowingly of
> FHS should take the time to read it, too.
I suggest you take basic comprehension classes.
> On Thursday 17 January 2002 17:22, Dan
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Hi Daniel,
I recommend you to read section 3.8 of FHS. Someone who talks so knowingly of
FHS should take the time to read it, too.
On Thursday 17 January 2002 17:22, Daniel Stone wrote:
> >
> > Except that, it seems to be in "violation of FHS" to no
On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 05:09:54PM +0200, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote:
> On Thursday 17 January 2002 16:21, Daniel Stone wrote:
> > You might note the discussion on debian-kde of late, where Eray is
> > attempting to set a precedent by installing KDE3 into /opt/kde3. Let me
> > first disclose my viewp
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On Thursday 17 January 2002 16:21, Daniel Stone wrote:
> You might note the discussion on debian-kde of late, where Eray is
> attempting to set a precedent by installing KDE3 into /opt/kde3. Let me
> first disclose my viewpoint: I think this idea sucks
Il gio, 2002-01-17 alle 15:21, Daniel Stone ha scritto:
> You might note the discussion on debian-kde of late, where Eray is
> attempting to set a precedent by installing KDE3 into /opt/kde3. Let me
> first disclose my viewpoint: I think this idea sucks, as you can clearly
> see from my postings.
>
You might note the discussion on debian-kde of late, where Eray is
attempting to set a precedent by installing KDE3 into /opt/kde3. Let me
first disclose my viewpoint: I think this idea sucks, as you can clearly
see from my postings.
My main concern is that we'll set a precedent here in Debian for
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