Ainsi parlait Kevin A. Burton :
> > > Due to the WORA nature of Java applications, a lot of projects assume
> > > they are the only package management system in existence.
> >
> > And they're right, if you take into account that a cross-platform app
> > needs a cross-platform package management sys
Ainsi parlait Kevin A. Burton :
> > > Due to the WORA nature of Java applications, a lot of projects assume
> > > they are the only package management system in existence.
> >
> > And they're right, if you take into account that a cross-platform app
> > needs a cross-platform package management sy
Ainsi parlait Andrew Pimlott :
> Upstream Java developers bundle all their dependencies because Sun
> hasn't given them any alternatives, and that is understandable (on
> the developers' part, not Sun's!). But this is Debian, and we have
> standards and conventions for our packages, so we should d
Ainsi parlait Andrew Pimlott :
> Upstream Java developers bundle all their dependencies because Sun
> hasn't given them any alternatives, and that is understandable (on
> the developers' part, not Sun's!). But this is Debian, and we have
> standards and conventions for our packages, so we should
> "Andrew" == Andrew Pimlott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Andrew> But this is Debian, and we have standards and conventions
Andrew> for our packages, so we should do better. This might
Andrew> cause some difficulty in building packages, and may
Andrew> require educating upstream
> "Andrew" == Andrew Pimlott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Andrew> But this is Debian, and we have standards and conventions
Andrew> for our packages, so we should do better. This might
Andrew> cause some difficulty in building packages, and may
Andrew> require educating upstrea
[ Responding to an old message. Sorry. ]
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:29:44AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Someone else writes:
> > > Due to the WORA nature of Java applications, a lot of projects assume they
> > > are the only package management system
[ Responding to an old message. Sorry. ]
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:29:44AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Someone else writes:
> > > Due to the WORA nature of Java applications, a lot of projects assume they
> > > are the only package management syste
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Adam Heath wrote:
> I have noticed that almost ALL packages include external .jars in their
> internal lib directories. This *MUST* stop. Yesterday. Last year.
>
> Lots of 'external' jars are not redistributable. You can't even have them in
> the source package.
>
> I will
On Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 01:42:05PM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>
> > You say that the war-files allow the classloading. That is not entirely
> > true. Take tomcat for example.
> >
> > * You place
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Adam Heath wrote:
> I have noticed that almost ALL packages include external .jars in their
> internal lib directories. This *MUST* stop. Yesterday. Last year.
>
> Lots of 'external' jars are not redistributable. You can't even have them in
> the source package.
>
> I will
On Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 01:42:05PM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>
> > You say that the war-files allow the classloading. That is not entirely
> > true. Take tomcat for example.
> >
> > * You plac
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Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> You say that the war-files allow the classloading. That is not entirely
> true. Take tomcat for example.
>
> * You place a war-file in the specified directory.
>
> * Restart tomcat.
>
> * Tomcat now unzi
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Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> You say that the war-files allow the classloading. That is not entirely
> true. Take tomcat for example.
>
> * You place a war-file in the specified directory.
>
> * Restart tomcat.
>
> * Tomcat now unz
On Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 12:51:07PM +1100, Jeff Turner wrote:
> > * Tomcat now unzips this file to the webapp directory.
>
> Or if you're running Tomcat 4.0 and have unpackWARs="false", the war
> isn't unzipped. I think that's Sun's goal. In the same way jars aren't
> unpacked before you can use th
On Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 12:51:07PM +1100, Jeff Turner wrote:
> > * Tomcat now unzips this file to the webapp directory.
>
> Or if you're running Tomcat 4.0 and have unpackWARs="false", the war
> isn't unzipped. I think that's Sun's goal. In the same way jars aren't
> unpacked before you can use t
On Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 12:39:48PM +1100, Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 02:05:17PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote:
> > Additionally, if libbar-1.1.3 breaks apps that that use
> > libbar-1.1.0, then libbar-1.1.3 is broken. Please read the docs sun
> > has on the subject(they are very concer
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 09:16:37PM +0100, Ola Lundqvist wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:51:40AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
[..]
>
> You say that the war-files allow the classloading. That is not entirely
> true. Take tomcat for example.
>
> * You place a war-file in the specified directory.
On Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 12:39:48PM +1100, Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 02:05:17PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote:
> > Additionally, if libbar-1.1.3 breaks apps that that use
> > libbar-1.1.0, then libbar-1.1.3 is broken. Please read the docs sun
> > has on the subject(they are very conce
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 02:05:17PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote:
> On 9 Nov 2001, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
>
> > And what if foo requires libbar-1.1.3 which is incompatible with the
> > fictional
> > libbar-1.1.0 that jboss requires?
> >
> > How do you install both on the same system... Do you compute
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 09:16:37PM +0100, Ola Lundqvist wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:51:40AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
[..]
>
> You say that the war-files allow the classloading. That is not entirely
> true. Take tomcat for example.
>
> * You place a war-file in the specified directory
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 02:05:17PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote:
> On 9 Nov 2001, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
>
> > And what if foo requires libbar-1.1.3 which is incompatible with the fictional
> > libbar-1.1.0 that jboss requires?
> >
> > How do you install both on the same system... Do you compute the
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:51:40AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> > s/doesn't/does/ ?
>
> yup... sorry :( should have been does
>
:)
> > Yes that is what you have to do. Libbar-1.1.1 needs to be a package with
> > that
> > name so an upgrade does not introduce conflicts. I think the new prop
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 01:59:50PM -0600, Ben Burton wrote:
>
> > Is there a link to the new proposed policy.. I think I saw it posted but
> > can't remember where I put it :(
>
> http://people.debian.org/~opal/java/policy.html
And linked from www.debian.org/devel since (I think) yesterday. :)
> Additionally, if libbar-1.1.3 breaks apps that that use libbar-1.1.0, then
> libbar-1.1.3 is broken. Please read the docs sun has on the subject(they
> are very concerned about never breaking backwards compatibility).
Where does one find these docs? Or are these just the docs describing the
On 9 Nov 2001, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> And what if foo requires libbar-1.1.3 which is incompatible with the fictional
> libbar-1.1.0 that jboss requires?
>
> How do you install both on the same system... Do you compute the CLASSPATH
> in a
> different manner for each application?
You treat it
> Is there a link to the new proposed policy.. I think I saw it posted but
> can't remember where I put it :(
http://people.debian.org/~opal/java/policy.html
>From the Other Burton.
--
Ben Burton
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://baasil.humbug.org.au/bab/
Public Key: finger [EMA
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Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:29:44AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> >
> > > > This is a practice tha
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Jeff Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > To solve it...
>
> .. as in, fish around in a project's lib/ directory, and ensure that *every
> jar* in there is it's own .deb? Ouch.. that's a pretty large overhead. There's
> no general way to determine
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:51:40AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> > s/doesn't/does/ ?
>
> yup... sorry :( should have been does
>
:)
> > Yes that is what you have to do. Libbar-1.1.1 needs to be a package with that
> > name so an upgrade does not introduce conflicts. I think the new proposed
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 01:59:50PM -0600, Ben Burton wrote:
>
> > Is there a link to the new proposed policy.. I think I saw it posted but
> > can't remember where I put it :(
>
> http://people.debian.org/~opal/java/policy.html
And linked from www.debian.org/devel since (I think) yesterday. :)
> Additionally, if libbar-1.1.3 breaks apps that that use libbar-1.1.0, then
> libbar-1.1.3 is broken. Please read the docs sun has on the subject(they
> are very concerned about never breaking backwards compatibility).
Where does one find these docs? Or are these just the docs describing the
On 9 Nov 2001, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> And what if foo requires libbar-1.1.3 which is incompatible with the fictional
> libbar-1.1.0 that jboss requires?
>
> How do you install both on the same system... Do you compute the CLASSPATH in a
> different manner for each application?
You treat it ju
> Is there a link to the new proposed policy.. I think I saw it posted but
> can't remember where I put it :(
http://people.debian.org/~opal/java/policy.html
>From the Other Burton.
--
Ben Burton
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://baasil.humbug.org.au/bab/
Public Key: finger [EM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:29:44AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> >
> > > > This is a practice th
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Jeff Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > To solve it...
>
> .. as in, fish around in a project's lib/ directory, and ensure that *every
> jar* in there is it's own .deb? Ouch.. that's a pretty large overhead. There's
> no general way to determin
Hi,
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:29:44AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > It already is an issue.
> > Look for mail.jar and activation.jar. Those are SCSL from sun.
> > Bad mojo.
>
> ouch.. this needs to be corrected ASAP!
Although I do not know the
Hi,
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:29:44AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > It already is an issue.
> > Look for mail.jar and activation.jar. Those are SCSL from sun.
> > Bad mojo.
>
> ouch.. this needs to be corrected ASAP!
Although I do not know the
On Thu, Nov 08, 2001 at 10:30:36PM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I have noticed that almost ALL packages include external .jars in their
> > internal lib directories. This *MUST* stop. Yesterday.
On Thu, Nov 08, 2001 at 10:30:36PM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I have noticed that almost ALL packages include external .jars in their
> > internal lib directories. This *MUST* stop. Yesterday.
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:29:44AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>
> > > This is a practice that is unfortunately common in the Java world.
> >
> > Common does not make it right.
>
> but it doesn't m
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > This is a practice that is unfortunately common in the Java world.
>
> Common does not make it right.
but it doesn't make it harder to *make* it right.
> > Can I debian package require a specific version
On 8 Nov 2001, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I have noticed that almost ALL packages include external .jars in their
> > internal lib directories. This *MUST* stop. Yesterday. Last year.
>
> Don't be so
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:29:44AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>
> > > This is a practice that is unfortunately common in the Java world.
> >
> > Common does not make it right.
>
> but it doesn't
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I have noticed that almost ALL packages include external .jars in their
> internal lib directories. This *MUST* stop. Yesterday. Last year.
Don't be so extreme... nothing is black and white.
This is a prac
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > This is a practice that is unfortunately common in the Java world.
>
> Common does not make it right.
but it doesn't make it harder to *make* it right.
> > Can I debian package require a specific version
On 8 Nov 2001, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I have noticed that almost ALL packages include external .jars in their
> > internal lib directories. This *MUST* stop. Yesterday. Last year.
>
> Don't be so
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I have noticed that almost ALL packages include external .jars in their
> internal lib directories. This *MUST* stop. Yesterday. Last year.
Don't be so extreme... nothing is black and white.
This is a pra
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