[jr@orthanc.jrw.org: Re: Fw: tomcat and apache troubles]

2001-04-28 Thread Seth Arnold
16:07:31 -0600 From: "J. R. Westmoreland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Seth Arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Fw: tomcat and apache troubles X-Operating-System: Linux orthanc 2.4.4-pre3 I'm sorry. Let me try again. I was trying to finish writing the message before catching th

[jr@orthanc.jrw.org: Re: Fw: tomcat and apache troubles]

2001-04-28 Thread Seth Arnold
16:07:31 -0600 From: "J. R. Westmoreland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Seth Arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Fw: tomcat and apache troubles X-Operating-System: Linux orthanc 2.4.4-pre3 I'm sorry. Let me try again. I was trying to finish writing the message before catching th

Re: Fw: tomcat and apache troubles

2001-04-28 Thread Seth Arnold
J.R., a general rule that must be broken only in dire circumstances -- what were you doing, what did you expect to happen, what actually happened. :) My *guess* suggests that you tried making symbolic link into a directory where you don't have write access. Either make the link as root (with su or

Re: Fw: tomcat and apache troubles

2001-04-28 Thread Seth Arnold
J.R., a general rule that must be broken only in dire circumstances -- what were you doing, what did you expect to happen, what actually happened. :) My *guess* suggests that you tried making symbolic link into a directory where you don't have write access. Either make the link as root (with su o

Re: Java

2001-04-23 Thread Seth Arnold
* Munir Chhibber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010423 19:02]: > i have 3 years of experience in java.recently bought a helio and would luv to > work on it using java but wan't some info about going about it. > like getting linux and what jvm is available for development using it. [BTW -- does this list hav

Re: Java

2001-04-23 Thread Seth Arnold
* Munir Chhibber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010423 19:02]: > i have 3 years of experience in java.recently bought a helio and would luv to > work on it using java but wan't some info about going about it. > like getting linux and what jvm is available for development using it. [BTW -- does this list ha

Re: Java libraries and proposal.

2001-04-06 Thread Seth Arnold
* Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010406 04:41]: > Well to me it seems that this system will have some name clashes. > Why not use the debian package name? The initial revitalization of this thread comes from Per Bothner. His own machine is Red Hat, and he seems pretty happy with it. :) He chos

Re: Java libraries and proposal.

2001-04-06 Thread Seth Arnold
* Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010406 04:09]: > Build: > Is it possible to create a script that generates this automaticly? > Like a dh_javadeps... It should also generate the dependencies > in the control file... I like this idea. It *ought* to be fairly straightforward (famous last w

Re: Java libraries and proposal.

2001-04-06 Thread Seth Arnold
* Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010406 04:41]: > Well to me it seems that this system will have some name clashes. > Why not use the debian package name? The initial revitalization of this thread comes from Per Bothner. His own machine is Red Hat, and he seems pretty happy with it. :) He cho

Re: Java libraries and proposal.

2001-04-06 Thread Seth Arnold
* Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010406 04:09]: > Build: > Is it possible to create a script that generates this automaticly? > Like a dh_javadeps... It should also generate the dependencies > in the control file... I like this idea. It *ought* to be fairly straightforward (famous last

Re: java library installation issues

2001-04-05 Thread Seth Arnold
* Egon Willighagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010405 00:14]: > This would certainly be a good option... If we good get it as flexible > as the proposed Perl launcher I've got to throw in my two cents: I too hate the idea of using any sort of script to start execution of 'native-looking' Java program

Re: java library installation issues

2001-04-05 Thread Seth Arnold
* Egon Willighagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010405 00:14]: > This would certainly be a good option... If we good get it as flexible > as the proposed Perl launcher I've got to throw in my two cents: I too hate the idea of using any sort of script to start execution of 'native-looking' Java progra

Re: java library installation issues

2001-04-03 Thread Seth Arnold
* Per Bothner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010403 00:01]: > Well, I'm not focusing on Debian - I'm actually currently using Red Hat. Aha; I assumed you used Debian because you have posted in debian-java before, over the course of several months IIRC. I imagine that most any improvements in handling Java

Re: java library installation issues

2001-04-03 Thread Seth Arnold
* Egon Willighagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010402 22:58]: > Op dinsdag 03 april 2001 02:43, schreef Per Bothner: > > I'd like to make some progress on standard Linux/GNU installation > > standards for Java, and how GCJ fits into this. (Per, glad to see you are interested in making Java as cool in Deb

Re: java library installation issues

2001-04-03 Thread Seth Arnold
* Per Bothner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010403 00:01]: > Well, I'm not focusing on Debian - I'm actually currently using Red Hat. Aha; I assumed you used Debian because you have posted in debian-java before, over the course of several months IIRC. I imagine that most any improvements in handling Java

Re: java library installation issues

2001-04-02 Thread Seth Arnold
* Egon Willighagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010402 22:58]: > Op dinsdag 03 april 2001 02:43, schreef Per Bothner: > > I'd like to make some progress on standard Linux/GNU installation > > standards for Java, and how GCJ fits into this. (Per, glad to see you are interested in making Java as cool in De

Re: Testing automation

2001-04-02 Thread Seth Arnold
* Bao Ha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010402 12:24]: > I have a swing-based applet that I would like to build a test suite > using some tools like dejagnu. If DejaGNU can do GUI tests, then thank you for the wonderful bit of news. :) If DejaGNU cannot do GUI tests, then take a look around for testing arti

Re: Testing automation

2001-04-02 Thread Seth Arnold
* Bao Ha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010402 12:24]: > I have a swing-based applet that I would like to build a test suite > using some tools like dejagnu. If DejaGNU can do GUI tests, then thank you for the wonderful bit of news. :) If DejaGNU cannot do GUI tests, then take a look around for testing art

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-15 Thread Seth Arnold
[Alex, please wrap your lines at 74 characters. Thank you.] * Alexander Hvostov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010315 11:51]: > On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 06:15:53 -0500 > Benjamin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > i think a better question is why has this thread been going on this long? > If you want to know

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-15 Thread Seth Arnold
[Alex, please wrap your lines at 74 characters. Thank you.] * Alexander Hvostov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010315 11:51]: > On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 06:15:53 -0500 > Benjamin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > i think a better question is why has this thread been going on this long? > If you want to kno

Re: Newbie blackdown problem

2001-03-12 Thread Seth Arnold
* Matthew Sherborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010312 12:29]: > I'm using the jde package, originally with the blackdown compiler etc. Hmm. I have the j2sdk1.3 package installed. If you add the line: deb ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/linux/devel/lang/java/blackdown.org/debian woody non-free to your /etc/a

Re: Newbie blackdown problem

2001-03-12 Thread Seth Arnold
* Matthew Sherborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010312 12:29]: > I'm using the jde package, originally with the blackdown compiler etc. Hmm. I have the j2sdk1.3 package installed. If you add the line: deb ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/linux/devel/lang/java/blackdown.org/debian woody non-free to your /etc/a

kaffe/gcj (was: Re: Quitting debian-java)

2001-03-12 Thread Seth Arnold
* Bob Ham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010312 03:25]: > I was under the impression that Gcj's main purpose was to build a java > compiler, as opposed to Kaffe's which was to build a VM, having KJC as > an aside. Did I miss something? Because gcj can compile directly to native machine code, gcj can compet

kaffe/gcj (was: Re: Quitting debian-java)

2001-03-12 Thread Seth Arnold
* Bob Ham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010312 03:25]: > I was under the impression that Gcj's main purpose was to build a java > compiler, as opposed to Kaffe's which was to build a VM, having KJC as > an aside. Did I miss something? Because gcj can compile directly to native machine code, gcj can compe

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-02 Thread Seth Arnold
* Alexander Hvostov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010302 18:23]: > Those who believe Java and free software is a sad landscape are woefully > unaware of reality... If this were the case, why does GNU seem to > wholeheartedly support it? They even have a page devoted to GNU Java > software! I think we may n

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-02 Thread Seth Arnold
* Alexander Hvostov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010302 18:23]: > Those who believe Java and free software is a sad landscape are woefully > unaware of reality... If this were the case, why does GNU seem to > wholeheartedly support it? They even have a page devoted to GNU Java > software! I think we may

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-02 Thread Seth Arnold
* Artur Radosz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010302 01:58]: > > non-free is not part of Debian. realplayer comes only as an installer. > > For me it`s :). It`s listed in installer. Mirorred on your sites. > Packaged in .deb. Don't get too happy with non-free. It almost got cut a few months back, and I do

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-02 Thread Seth Arnold
* Artur Radosz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010302 01:10]: > > Artur, the problem is very simple. I hope I can explain it simply enoug > > Debian is about Free Software. Free as in BSD, GPL, LGPL, Artistic, > > XFree86, etc. All these licenses satisfy the requirements of the Debian > > What about non-free

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-02 Thread Seth Arnold
* Artur Radosz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010302 01:58]: > > non-free is not part of Debian. realplayer comes only as an installer. > > For me it`s :). It`s listed in installer. Mirorred on your sites. > Packaged in .deb. Don't get too happy with non-free. It almost got cut a few months back, and I d

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-02 Thread Seth Arnold
* Artur Radosz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010302 01:10]: > > Artur, the problem is very simple. I hope I can explain it simply enoug > > Debian is about Free Software. Free as in BSD, GPL, LGPL, Artistic, > > XFree86, etc. All these licenses satisfy the requirements of the Debian > > What about non-fre

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-02 Thread Seth Arnold
* Alexander Hvostov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010301 22:35]: > That's why you create classes under packages other than `java' or > `javax'. The Java API proper is in the `java' and `javax' packages, and > Sun is simply trying to keep Java consistent across implementations by > using their IP powers to m

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-02 Thread Seth Arnold
* Alexander Hvostov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010301 21:31]: > > is their implementation of Java Not Free, the API itself is also Not > > Free and cannot be reproduced without licensing from Sun. > > I suggest getting some lawyers on the task, then. With what money? :) > Last time I checked, there wa

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-01 Thread Seth Arnold
* Alan KF LAU <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010301 20:32]: > Also one of the very annoying thing in kaffe bother me much is that it > has not implemented java.security. It is a mistake or an intention to > make Java insecure? See > http://www.kaffe.org/cgi-bin/kaffe/security?user=guest;addsignature=1 I th

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-01 Thread Seth Arnold
* Alexander Hvostov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010301 22:35]: > That's why you create classes under packages other than `java' or > `javax'. The Java API proper is in the `java' and `javax' packages, and > Sun is simply trying to keep Java consistent across implementations by > using their IP powers to

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-01 Thread Seth Arnold
* Alexander Hvostov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010301 19:49]: > Sun did not license Java in a non-free manner. They licensed _their > implementation_ of Java in a non-free manner. Java itself is not subject > to a license of any kind, but just some straightforward IP protections to > keep people (like Mi

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-01 Thread Seth Arnold
* Alexander Hvostov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010301 21:31]: > > is their implementation of Java Not Free, the API itself is also Not > > Free and cannot be reproduced without licensing from Sun. > > I suggest getting some lawyers on the task, then. With what money? :) > Last time I checked, there w

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-01 Thread Seth Arnold
* Alan KF LAU <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010301 20:32]: > Also one of the very annoying thing in kaffe bother me much is that it > has not implemented java.security. It is a mistake or an intention to > make Java insecure? See > http://www.kaffe.org/cgi-bin/kaffe/security?user=guest;addsignature=1 I t

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-01 Thread Seth Arnold
* Alexander Hvostov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010301 19:49]: > Sun did not license Java in a non-free manner. They licensed _their > implementation_ of Java in a non-free manner. Java itself is not subject > to a license of any kind, but just some straightforward IP protections to > keep people (like M

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-01 Thread Seth Arnold
* Artur Radosz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010301 10:27]: > Yeah, but with this solution there is no way to include other free java2 > apzz and libs in distribution. Artur, the problem is very simple. I hope I can explain it simply enough for you to understand; while languages are often beautiful, engli

Re: Quitting debian-java

2001-03-01 Thread Seth Arnold
* Artur Radosz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010301 10:27]: > Yeah, but with this solution there is no way to include other free java2 > apzz and libs in distribution. Artur, the problem is very simple. I hope I can explain it simply enough for you to understand; while languages are often beautiful, engl

Re: Using org.apache.service to create Java Daemons

2001-01-19 Thread Seth Arnold
* Aaron Brashears <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010118 22:27]: > I'm researching writing a daemon in Java. Surprisingly, there seems to > be very little documentation around the net for doing this. Aaron, most of what makes daemons special is they automatically detach from their controlling terminal, setup

Re: Using org.apache.service to create Java Daemons

2001-01-19 Thread Seth Arnold
* Aaron Brashears <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010118 22:27]: > I'm researching writing a daemon in Java. Surprisingly, there seems to > be very little documentation around the net for doing this. Aaron, most of what makes daemons special is they automatically detach from their controlling terminal, setu

Re: Building java packages

2001-01-15 Thread Seth Arnold
* Egon Willighagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010115 11:12]: > W: jmol: executable-not-elf-or-script ./usr/share/java/vecmath1.1-1.12.jar > W: jmol: executable-not-elf-or-script ./usr/share/java/junit.jar > W: jmol: executable-not-elf-or-script ./usr/share/java/aelfred.jar > W: jmol: executable-not-elf-o

Re: Building java packages

2001-01-15 Thread Seth Arnold
* Egon Willighagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010115 11:12]: > W: jmol: executable-not-elf-or-script ./usr/share/java/vecmath1.1-1.12.jar > W: jmol: executable-not-elf-or-script ./usr/share/java/junit.jar > W: jmol: executable-not-elf-or-script ./usr/share/java/aelfred.jar > W: jmol: executable-not-elf-

Re: RFC: provides: java-servlet-engine

2000-12-16 Thread Seth Arnold
* Adrian Bunk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001216 16:16]: > > If I am not mistaken to precedence, the use precedes policy. Email the > > maintainers, and ask them to include the Provides: line. :) > > You are mistaken. > /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/virtual-package-names-list.text.gz says: > > > <-- sni

Re: RFC: provides: java-servlet-engine

2000-12-16 Thread Seth Arnold
* Adrian Bunk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001216 16:16]: > > If I am not mistaken to precedence, the use precedes policy. Email the > > maintainers, and ask them to include the Provides: line. :) > > You are mistaken. > /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/virtual-package-names-list.text.gz says: > > > <-- sn

Re: RFC: provides: java-servlet-engine

2000-12-16 Thread Seth Arnold
* Nic Ferrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001216 09:59]: > >>> Thom May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 16-Dec-00 3:28:18 PM >>> > >So, in the control file i'd like to be able to specify "requires: > >java-servlet-engine" and let apt get on with it, rather than > >saying "requires: apache-jserv|tomcat" etc. > > Ther

Re: RFC: provides: java-servlet-engine

2000-12-16 Thread Seth Arnold
* Nic Ferrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001216 09:59]: > >>> Thom May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 16-Dec-00 3:28:18 PM >>> > >So, in the control file i'd like to be able to specify "requires: > >java-servlet-engine" and let apt get on with it, rather than > >saying "requires: apache-jserv|tomcat" etc. > > The

Re: jdk1.3:./javac:error in loading..:libstdC++-libc6.1-

2000-12-12 Thread Seth Arnold
I suggest installing the libstdc++2.10 package, and perhaps the libstdc++-2.10-dev package, if you want to compile anything against it. (not real likely.) * Yuan An <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001212 16:50]: > Hi, > I downloaded j2sdk-1_3_0-linux.bin from Sun and insall jdk1.3 in > /usr/local/jdk1.3 i

Re: jdk1.3:./javac:error in loading..:libstdC++-libc6.1-

2000-12-12 Thread Seth Arnold
I suggest installing the libstdc++2.10 package, and perhaps the libstdc++-2.10-dev package, if you want to compile anything against it. (not real likely.) * Yuan An <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001212 16:50]: > Hi, > I downloaded j2sdk-1_3_0-linux.bin from Sun and insall jdk1.3 in > /usr/local/jdk1.3

Re: packaging jars vs. classes

2000-11-08 Thread Seth Arnold
* Joe Emenaker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001108 14:04]: > > Ah, wouldn't that be nice. If every package maintained compatibility > > release to release, we could do that. But that doesn't always happen. > > For example, Kawa's package hierarchy is going through some > > reorganization, such that if I

Re: packaging jars vs. classes

2000-11-08 Thread Seth Arnold
* Joe Emenaker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001108 14:04]: > > Ah, wouldn't that be nice. If every package maintained compatibility > > release to release, we could do that. But that doesn't always happen. > > For example, Kawa's package hierarchy is going through some > > reorganization, such that if I

Re: Tomcat and j2sdk1.3

2000-11-06 Thread Seth Arnold
* Przemyslaw Wegrzyn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001106 09:23]: > Well, I thought _native_ threads are implemented as threads ;), not > processes. Isn't it less effective this way ? Forking is time-expensive... With copy-on-write pages, I don't think forking is all that expensive. (Corrections welcomed!

Re: Tomcat and j2sdk1.3

2000-11-06 Thread Seth Arnold
* Przemyslaw Wegrzyn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001106 09:23]: > Well, I thought _native_ threads are implemented as threads ;), not > processes. Isn't it less effective this way ? Forking is time-expensive... With copy-on-write pages, I don't think forking is all that expensive. (Corrections welcomed

Re: j3d, blackdown

2000-11-05 Thread Seth Arnold
* Juergen Kreileder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001104 22:13]: > Seth> ***23** > It's a bug. I'll fix it for the next version. Great! :) What service! :) > When I try to run any DRI or DGA stuff on my G400, my machine enters a > more or less u

j3d, blackdown

2000-11-04 Thread Seth Arnold
Hey, does anyone know where these messages are coming from? ***23** They show up when I run java3d programs. I think each rendered frame gets one of these lines. I am using Blackdown's Java3D port, with xf86 4.0.1-1, and GLX works. Any sugge

Re: j3d, blackdown

2000-11-04 Thread Seth Arnold
* Juergen Kreileder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001104 22:13]: > Seth> ***23** > It's a bug. I'll fix it for the next version. Great! :) What service! :) > When I try to run any DRI or DGA stuff on my G400, my machine enters a > more or less

j3d, blackdown

2000-11-04 Thread Seth Arnold
Hey, does anyone know where these messages are coming from? ***23** They show up when I run java3d programs. I think each rendered frame gets one of these lines. I am using Blackdown's Java3D port, with xf86 4.0.1-1, and GLX works. Any sugg

Re: Getting ant and kaffe to play nice

2000-11-02 Thread Seth Arnold
* Aaron Brashears <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001101 23:46]: > org.apache.xerces.validators.datatype.InvalidDatatypeFacetException: > [exception was kaffe.util.SupportDisabled: GNU gmp was not found by Kaffe > configure script] > I haven't used Kaffe in a year or so. That won't stop me from guessing!

Re: Getting ant and kaffe to play nice

2000-11-01 Thread Seth Arnold
* Aaron Brashears <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001101 23:46]: > org.apache.xerces.validators.datatype.InvalidDatatypeFacetException: [exception was >kaffe.util.SupportDisabled: GNU gmp was not found by Kaffe configure script] > I haven't used Kaffe in a year or so. That won't stop me from guessing! :)

Re: How to install jdk 1.3

2000-10-31 Thread Seth Arnold
Thank you for wrapping at 7x characters! So much nicer. :) * Alan KF LAU <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001031 20:18]: > I found that java binaries are symlink to /etc/alternatives/*. > Is that a single command I could change the 'alternatives' like > I do in update-alternatives for X? Well, that would b

Re: How to install jdk 1.3

2000-10-31 Thread Seth Arnold
Lau, your emails would be easier to read if you wrapped at 72 characters or so. * Alan KF LAU <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001031 19:45]: > How may I install the jdk1.3 in Debian without deb packages? Is there any > symbolic links and library I should place in right place so that dependencies > like coc

Re: How to install jdk 1.3

2000-10-31 Thread Seth Arnold
Thank you for wrapping at 7x characters! So much nicer. :) * Alan KF LAU <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001031 20:18]: > I found that java binaries are symlink to /etc/alternatives/*. > Is that a single command I could change the 'alternatives' like > I do in update-alternatives for X? Well, that would

Re: How to install jdk 1.3

2000-10-31 Thread Seth Arnold
Lau, your emails would be easier to read if you wrapped at 72 characters or so. * Alan KF LAU <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001031 19:45]: > How may I install the jdk1.3 in Debian without deb packages? Is there any symbolic >links and library I should place in right place so that dependencies like cocoon

Re: How to manage multiple JVMs

2000-10-19 Thread Seth Arnold
[Joe, a 72-column word-wrap would make reading your email significantly easier I have word-wrapped it in order to make my response at all intellegible...] * Joe Emenaker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001019 01:34]: > As things stand now, I either have to keep them on separate machines > or wrestle with

Re: How to manage multiple JVMs

2000-10-19 Thread Seth Arnold
[Joe, a 72-column word-wrap would make reading your email significantly easier I have word-wrapped it in order to make my response at all intellegible...] * Joe Emenaker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001019 01:34]: > As things stand now, I either have to keep them on separate machines > or wrestle wit

Re: JSP server

2000-10-03 Thread Seth Arnold
I can't promise I am correct, but check Sun Microsystems; they are big fans of Java. Also try IBM, they have been trying to provide good software at good prices lately. * Alan KF LAU <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001003 01:33]: > Thank you for the recommendation. However, my company wouldn't be interested

Re: JSP server

2000-10-03 Thread Seth Arnold
I can't promise I am correct, but check Sun Microsystems; they are big fans of Java. Also try IBM, they have been trying to provide good software at good prices lately. * Alan KF LAU <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [001003 01:33]: > Thank you for the recommendation. However, my company wouldn't be intereste