On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 05:22:50PM +0100, Max Kellermann wrote:
> On 0, Jeff Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > How about using the jar manifest to store the jar metadata, as Sun
> > intended? Make the jars their own database. A platform-independent
> > database :)
>
>
> Jeff, your idea soun
On Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 12:39:48PM +1100, Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 02:05:17PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote:
> > Additionally, if libbar-1.1.3 breaks apps that that use
> > libbar-1.1.0, then libbar-1.1.3 is broken. Please read the docs sun
> > has on the subject(they are very concer
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On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 09:16:37PM +0100, Ola Lundqvist wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:51:40AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
[..]
>
> You say that the war-files allow the classloading. That is not entirely
> true. Take tomcat for example.
>
> * You place a war-file in the specified directory.
On Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 12:39:48PM +1100, Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 02:05:17PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote:
> > Additionally, if libbar-1.1.3 breaks apps that that use
> > libbar-1.1.0, then libbar-1.1.3 is broken. Please read the docs sun
> > has on the subject(they are very conce
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 02:05:17PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote:
> On 9 Nov 2001, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
>
> > And what if foo requires libbar-1.1.3 which is incompatible with the
> > fictional
> > libbar-1.1.0 that jboss requires?
> >
> > How do you install both on the same system... Do you compute
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 09:16:37PM +0100, Ola Lundqvist wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:51:40AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
[..]
>
> You say that the war-files allow the classloading. That is not entirely
> true. Take tomcat for example.
>
> * You place a war-file in the specified directory
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 02:05:17PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote:
> On 9 Nov 2001, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
>
> > And what if foo requires libbar-1.1.3 which is incompatible with the fictional
> > libbar-1.1.0 that jboss requires?
> >
> > How do you install both on the same system... Do you compute the
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 06:19:52PM +0100, Max Kellermann wrote:
> On 0, Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I just noticed I mixed library references in Manifest files and Java
> > > extensions, but they are similar, and as far as I know them, they're not
> > > good. If anyone feels the
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:51:40AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> > s/doesn't/does/ ?
>
> yup... sorry :( should have been does
>
:)
> > Yes that is what you have to do. Libbar-1.1.1 needs to be a package with
> > that
> > name so an upgrade does not introduce conflicts. I think the new prop
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 01:59:50PM -0600, Ben Burton wrote:
>
> > Is there a link to the new proposed policy.. I think I saw it posted but
> > can't remember where I put it :(
>
> http://people.debian.org/~opal/java/policy.html
And linked from www.debian.org/devel since (I think) yesterday. :)
> Additionally, if libbar-1.1.3 breaks apps that that use libbar-1.1.0, then
> libbar-1.1.3 is broken. Please read the docs sun has on the subject(they
> are very concerned about never breaking backwards compatibility).
Where does one find these docs? Or are these just the docs describing the
On 9 Nov 2001, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> And what if foo requires libbar-1.1.3 which is incompatible with the fictional
> libbar-1.1.0 that jboss requires?
>
> How do you install both on the same system... Do you compute the CLASSPATH
> in a
> different manner for each application?
You treat it
> Is there a link to the new proposed policy.. I think I saw it posted but
> can't remember where I put it :(
http://people.debian.org/~opal/java/policy.html
>From the Other Burton.
--
Ben Burton
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://baasil.humbug.org.au/bab/
Public Key: finger [EMA
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:29:44AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> >
> > > > This is a practice tha
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Jeff Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > To solve it...
>
> .. as in, fish around in a project's lib/ directory, and ensure that *every
> jar* in there is it's own .deb? Ouch.. that's a pretty large overhead. There's
> no general way to determine
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 06:19:52PM +0100, Max Kellermann wrote:
> On 0, Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I just noticed I mixed library references in Manifest files and Java
> > > extensions, but they are similar, and as far as I know them, they're not
> > > good. If anyone feels th
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:51:40AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> > s/doesn't/does/ ?
>
> yup... sorry :( should have been does
>
:)
> > Yes that is what you have to do. Libbar-1.1.1 needs to be a package with that
> > name so an upgrade does not introduce conflicts. I think the new proposed
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 01:59:50PM -0600, Ben Burton wrote:
>
> > Is there a link to the new proposed policy.. I think I saw it posted but
> > can't remember where I put it :(
>
> http://people.debian.org/~opal/java/policy.html
And linked from www.debian.org/devel since (I think) yesterday. :)
> Additionally, if libbar-1.1.3 breaks apps that that use libbar-1.1.0, then
> libbar-1.1.3 is broken. Please read the docs sun has on the subject(they
> are very concerned about never breaking backwards compatibility).
Where does one find these docs? Or are these just the docs describing the
On 9 Nov 2001, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> And what if foo requires libbar-1.1.3 which is incompatible with the fictional
> libbar-1.1.0 that jboss requires?
>
> How do you install both on the same system... Do you compute the CLASSPATH in a
> different manner for each application?
You treat it ju
> Is there a link to the new proposed policy.. I think I saw it posted but
> can't remember where I put it :(
http://people.debian.org/~opal/java/policy.html
>From the Other Burton.
--
Ben Burton
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://baasil.humbug.org.au/bab/
Public Key: finger [EM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:29:44AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> >
> > > > This is a practice th
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Jeff Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > To solve it...
>
> .. as in, fish around in a project's lib/ directory, and ensure that *every
> jar* in there is it's own .deb? Ouch.. that's a pretty large overhead. There's
> no general way to determin
On 0, Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I just noticed I mixed library references in Manifest files and Java
> > extensions, but they are similar, and as far as I know them, they're not
> > good. If anyone feels they're sufficient for our problems, please explain
> > :-)
>
> I'm not v
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:54:00PM +0100, Max Kellermann wrote:
> On 0, Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:46:53AM +0100, Max Kellermann wrote:
> > I think so yes. I have not tested it though. Maybe it solves that
> > issue, and maybe not. Anyway this is a java
On 0, Jeff Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How about using the jar manifest to store the jar metadata, as Sun
> intended? Make the jars their own database. A platform-independent
> database :)
Jeff, your idea sounds nice, and I would really like to see Debian define the
new Java manifest fi
On 0, Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I just noticed I mixed library references in Manifest files and Java
> > extensions, but they are similar, and as far as I know them, they're not
> > good. If anyone feels they're sufficient for our problems, please explain :-)
>
> I'm not very
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 10:51:01AM +0100, Max Kellermann wrote:
[..]
>
> At first, we need a library database (applications will be put there,
> too). Maybe just a path containing a description file for every
> library, whatever you may call database. Every Java library and every
> Java applicatio
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:54:00PM +0100, Max Kellermann wrote:
> On 0, Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:46:53AM +0100, Max Kellermann wrote:
> > I think so yes. I have not tested it though. Maybe it solves that
> > issue, and maybe not. Anyway this is a jav
On 0, Jeff Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How about using the jar manifest to store the jar metadata, as Sun
> intended? Make the jars their own database. A platform-independent
> database :)
Jeff, your idea sounds nice, and I would really like to see Debian define the new Java
manifest f
Hi,
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:29:44AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > It already is an issue.
> > Look for mail.jar and activation.jar. Those are SCSL from sun.
> > Bad mojo.
>
> ouch.. this needs to be corrected ASAP!
Although I do not know the
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 10:51:01AM +0100, Max Kellermann wrote:
[..]
>
> At first, we need a library database (applications will be put there,
> too). Maybe just a path containing a description file for every
> library, whatever you may call database. Every Java library and every
> Java applicati
Hi,
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:29:44AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > It already is an issue.
> > Look for mail.jar and activation.jar. Those are SCSL from sun.
> > Bad mojo.
>
> ouch.. this needs to be corrected ASAP!
Although I do not know the
On 0, Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:46:53AM +0100, Max Kellermann wrote:
> I think so yes. I have not tested it though. Maybe it solves that
> issue, and maybe not. Anyway this is a java2 thing so we have to make
> a wrapper (or similar mechanism) for java1.
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:46:53AM +0100, Max Kellermann wrote:
I'm sorry. I think I forgot to mail to the list. Thanks for getting the
thread back on the list. :)
> On 0, Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'm a bit curious. In what way is the java extension mechanism useless?
>
> Th
On Thu, Nov 08, 2001 at 10:30:36PM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I have noticed that almost ALL packages include external .jars in their
> > internal lib directories. This *MUST* stop. Yesterday.
On 0, Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm a bit curious. In what way is the java extension mechanism useless?
The extension mechanism is only there to solve one problem: setting classpath.
It does not care about all the other stuff I mentioned. What should I write in
my Applet's Mani
On 0, Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:46:53AM +0100, Max Kellermann wrote:
> I think so yes. I have not tested it though. Maybe it solves that
> issue, and maybe not. Anyway this is a java2 thing so we have to make
> a wrapper (or similar mechanism) for java1
Hi,
let me introduce myself before I go into detail - I am Max Kellermann, I live
in Germany near Cologne and I'm 22 years old, I work as software developer
(mostly Perl, and some Java). I have learned my first programming language at
the age of 9 (Basic, Assembler, Pascal, C++, C, Java, Perl i
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 11:46:53AM +0100, Max Kellermann wrote:
I'm sorry. I think I forgot to mail to the list. Thanks for getting the
thread back on the list. :)
> On 0, Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'm a bit curious. In what way is the java extension mechanism useless?
>
> T
On Thu, Nov 08, 2001 at 10:30:36PM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I have noticed that almost ALL packages include external .jars in their
> > internal lib directories. This *MUST* stop. Yesterday.
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:29:44AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>
> > > This is a practice that is unfortunately common in the Java world.
> >
> > Common does not make it right.
>
> but it doesn't m
On 0, Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm a bit curious. In what way is the java extension mechanism useless?
The extension mechanism is only there to solve one problem: setting classpath. It does
not care about all the other stuff I mentioned. What should I write in my Applet's
Man
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > This is a practice that is unfortunately common in the Java world.
>
> Common does not make it right.
but it doesn't make it harder to *make* it right.
> > Can I debian package require a specific version
Hi,
let me introduce myself before I go into detail - I am Max Kellermann, I live in
Germany near Cologne and I'm 22 years old, I work as software developer (mostly Perl,
and some Java). I have learned my first programming language at the age of 9 (Basic,
Assembler, Pascal, C++, C, Java, Perl
On 8 Nov 2001, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I have noticed that almost ALL packages include external .jars in their
> > internal lib directories. This *MUST* stop. Yesterday. Last year.
>
> Don't be so
On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 12:29:44AM -0800, Kevin A. Burton wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>
> > > This is a practice that is unfortunately common in the Java world.
> >
> > Common does not make it right.
>
> but it doesn't
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I have noticed that almost ALL packages include external .jars in their
> internal lib directories. This *MUST* stop. Yesterday. Last year.
Don't be so extreme... nothing is black and white.
This is a prac
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Bill Wohler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Ola Lundqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Why not use /usr/share/doc/javadoc instead?
> > I think it a better place, easier to find and more consistent.
>
> Ola,
>
> The precedent is for /usr/share/jav
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > This is a practice that is unfortunately common in the Java world.
>
> Common does not make it right.
but it doesn't make it harder to *make* it right.
> > Can I debian package require a specific version
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